Manchester Bombing

[Jara 1,153]

Sorry, I should have been more clear. You wrote about paedophilia (if that's the right word) being "normal" (your word) in the Muslim world.

 

I was asking if you had any evidence of this happening in Australia (that's why I was saying I know about the recent Iman jailed for marrying an under-age female).

 

I'm only asking because I've never known it among the hundreds of Muslim people I've known and worked with. Among the Catholics I've known ... jeez. My old parish priest (from Altona, actually) all over the front pages a while ago. 

[dieter 3,325]

20 minutes ago, Jara said:

Sorry, I should have been more clear. You wrote about paedophilia (if that's the right word) being "normal" (your word) in the Muslim world.

 

I was asking if you had any evidence of this happening in Australia (that's why I was saying I know about the recent Iman jailed for marrying an under-age female).

 

I'm only asking because I've never known it among the hundreds of Muslim people I've known and worked with. Among the Catholics I've known ... jeez. My old parish priest (from Altona, actually) all over the front pages a while ago. 

You shared my catholic misery, We lived in Albion when we came to this enlightened country in 1956..

[leave it to deever 17,517]

On 6/28/2017 at 5:53 PM, Choke said:

Well, no, might have exaggerated a bit.

I Don't think Islam is nearly as much as a threat as some here do. It honestly doesn't scare me. It's just another backwards religion, just that it hasn't had a proper clash with modernity like many of the others have.

I Reckon it's going through one now, and we'll be much better off at the end of it.

In an ideal world, I'd be happy if it and any other religion was gone completely. But it's not gonna happen, and it's unfair to vilify the majority for the acts of some fundamentalist morons. And don't say the majority aren't peaceful. They are. We have 600,000 of them here making not many waves at all. We have lots of other religions with stupid things in ancient texts but we don't tar all followers with the fundamentalist brush for them, not sure why we do for Muslims.

In an ideal world all extreme views would be gone including extreme atheists like Stalin , Pol pot and Hitler. The worst terrorists ever.

[leave it to deever 17,517]

On 6/1/2017 at 10:05 AM, Wrecker45 said:

This is the crux of the problem for mine.

Most reasonable people would agree that there is a link between Islam and terrorism. It is only a very small minority of Muslims who use their religion as justification to kill. But there remains a link nonetheless.

When Australia accepts Muslim refugees we are increasing our chance of terrorism in this country. It is unfair, however, to paint every Muslim as a potential terrorist for the actions of a very small few.

I don't know that there is any fair or perfect way to deal with this problem.

Yep great post. Its a complex problem. Perhaps not letting the muslim population not get any bigger would help. Ie immigration levels from Islam countries should not be higher than the level of muslims already living here. Ie if 2% of the population is muslim than 2% can come in.

In truth I dont have any answers. Really wish I did. I feel sorry for the great aussies who are muslims but am also worried about my children being blown up at a concert as are they I guess,

Was thinking at the Anzac game about having to be searched and how sad it was.

Probably best if I just read footy posts but its comforting that there are some good people posting about this without some totally crazy views.

 

[dieter 3,325]

1 hour ago, leave it to deever said:

In an ideal world all extreme views would be gone including extreme atheists like Stalin , Pol pot and Hitler. The worst terrorists ever.

Ah no, you forgot to include the greatest terrorist of the 20th and 21st Centuries, the USA.

get an independent assessment of the numbers they killed. The USA is way, way in front.

Edited June 29, 2017 by dieter

[dieter 3,325]

1 hour ago, leave it to deever said:

Yep great post. Its a complex problem. Perhaps not letting the muslim population not get any bigger would help. Ie immigration levels from Islam countries should not be higher than the level of muslims already living here. Ie if 2% of the population is muslim than 2% can come in.

In truth I dont have any answers. Really wish I did. I feel sorry for the great aussies who are muslims but am also worried about my children being blown up at a concert as are they I guess,

Was thinking at the Anzac game about having to be searched and how sad it was.

Probably best if I just read footy posts but its comforting that there are some good people posting about this without some totally crazy views.

 

You are way, way more likely to be killed by a shark if you live in Australia than be killed by a Muslim.

A woman is probably a thousand times more likely to be killed by her husband/partner than a Muslim.

 

[Biffen 12,944]

9 minutes ago, dieter said:

You are way, way more likely to be killed by a shark if you live in Australia than be killed by a Muslim.

A woman is probably a thousand times more likely to be killed by her husband/partner than a Muslim.

 

Must have been a plague of shark deaths during the Bali bombings and  a few more last month or do we only count the ones you approve of ?

The Bourke st nutjob was a Brother so you can add his tally and let's not forget Brighton.

Sharks are getting out of control lately.

Your second apologia statistic only seems more farcical  with the word "probably" in it.

"Evidence shows that Dieter probably doesn't check his facts "

Edited June 29, 2017 by Biffen

[Wrecker45 3,378]

Dieter - how come you can never stick to the topic?

 

[leave it to deever 17,517]

42 minutes ago, dieter said:

You are way, way more likely to be killed by a shark if you live in Australia than be killed by a Muslim.

A woman is probably a thousand times more likely to be killed by her husband/partner than a Muslim.

 

I cant swim but stats wise for most people you are correct.

Having said that,  the odds of being eaten by a shark or being killed by someone yelling allah akbar have certainly increased lately and not solely due to the increase in sharks or the amount of people swimming. 

 

Ps 90 % of statistics are 56.46% true.

 

Edited June 29, 2017 by leave it to deever

[dieter 3,325]

1 hour ago, Wrecker45 said:

Dieter - how come you can never stick to the topic?

 

The topic for you is that all things Islam are bad and evil, I know. Sorry to maybe put a fact or two in the way of your Pauline-like non facts and propaganda.

So what's the topic, Wreck, that all Muslims are all bad motherflucking deviants who should be deported to Islamabad so we can all just concentrate on the footy?

Oh, and they're all TERRORISTS. WITNESS BALI.  Ok, Mr Lindt was mad and crazy, BUT he WAS a MUSLIM. WITNESS THE BRIGHTON MURDERER. HE WAS A FLUCKING MUSLIM TOO. The guy who rode down Bourke Street was okay, he was a Christian Greek, killed 9, but that's not TERRORISM. He was on drugs, he'll get a sublimated sentence because the drugs made him do it...

[Jara 1,153]

2 hours ago, Biffen said:

Must have been a plague of shark deaths during the Bali bombings and  a few more last month or do we only count the ones you approve of ?

The Bourke st nutjob was a Brother so you can add his tally and let's not forget Brighton.

Sharks are getting out of control lately.

Your second apologia statistic only seems more farcical  with the word "probably" in it.

"Evidence shows that Dieter probably doesn't check his facts "

What do you mean, the Bourke Street nut job was a brother?

[Biffen 12,944]

6 hours ago, Jara said:

What do you mean, the Bourke Street nut job was a brother?

Muslim Brotherhood.

"Every Muslim is a brother of every other Muslim"

[Jara 1,153]

You're telling me the Bourke Street feller - Dimiti Gargle-whatever - was Muslim?

[dieter 3,325]

2 hours ago, Jara said:

You're telling me the Bourke Street feller - Dimiti Gargle-whatever - was Muslim?

You realize we are arguing with maniacs?

Edited June 30, 2017 by dieter

[Wrecker45 3,378]

16 hours ago, dieter said:

The topic for you is that all things Islam are bad and evil, I know. Sorry to maybe put a fact or two in the way of your Pauline-like non facts and propaganda.

So what's the topic, Wreck, that all Muslims are all bad motherflucking deviants who should be deported to Islamabad so we can all just concentrate on the footy?

Oh, and they're all TERRORISTS. WITNESS BALI.  Ok, Mr Lindt was mad and crazy, BUT he WAS a MUSLIM. WITNESS THE BRIGHTON MURDERER. HE WAS A FLUCKING MUSLIM TOO. The guy who rode down Bourke Street was okay, he was a Christian Greek, killed 9, but that's not TERRORISM. He was on drugs, he'll get a sublimated sentence because the drugs made him do it...

I'll try to explain this to you once more, in a way you can hopefully understand, but it is the last time. 

George Pell was charged yesterday with some kind of sexual abuse charge. When his defence mount a case they are not going to say but Mohammed was a peadophile too. Or the Grand Mufti in equivalent hierarchy to Pell has done worse. It is completely irrelevant. They will argue the merits of the case.

When there is a thread about Islamic terrorism and the impact and problems it has or doesn't have on Australian immigration it has nothing to do with Christians, Andrew Bolt, Pauline Hansen, Murdoch, white supremacists or Uncle Sam.

I have no problem if you think Muslim's are enriching to Australian culture. Just explain why.

Hope you understand this time.

If you want to start a topic about something other than Islamic terrorism, Islamic immigration or unhealthy Islamic practises in Australia I am happy to contribute.

[Grapeviney 9,788]

On 28/06/2017 at 5:39 PM, dieter said:

Ironically, ProDee, it's the other way round. But you'd know, Greg Sheridan has told you so because his mate the Israeli Ambassador told him so.

I'd much rather rely on what Ilan Pappe, Schlomo Sand, Miko Peled and Norman Finklestein and the ex IDF group 'Breaking the Silence'  tell me about who hates who first in Israel and the Occupied Territories,

 

You, no doubt, would classify all these dudes as 'self-hating Jews'.

You seem incapable of discussing anything without referencing Israel and the Jews. Funny that.

But I'll play along.

Israel isn't perfect, far from it. But the criticisms you make, and those you refer to, all get an open hearing in Israel itself - there are genuine opposition parties, real elections, a free and open press which is regularly critical of the Government of the day, and groups like Breaking the Silence are allowed to say and do their thing. That's what happens in a democracy. Arabs sit on the Supreme Court, and in the Knesset.

Try doing any of those things in the countries which surround Israel and you'll lose your head, or your hands, or whatever it is they do with political opponents in that part of the world.   

Not that I'm expecting any of this to sink in - we could be discussing the migration habits of passerine birds and you'd still find a way to blame Israel. It's a staple of left-wing ideology these days. 

By the way, the next time you try and reference these discussions on the footy board, as you did again the other day, your posts won't just be deleted, but you'll get a holiday from the site too. 

Shabbat shalom  

 

Edited July 1, 2017 by Grapeviney
Changed blame 'the Jews' to blame Israel

[leave it to deever 17,517]

1 hour ago, Grapeviney said:

You seem incapable of discussing anything without referencing Israel and the Jews. Funny that.

But I'll play along.

Israel isn't perfect, far from it. But the criticisms you make, and those you refer to, all get an open hearing in Israel itself - there are genuine opposition parties, real elections, a free and open press which is regularly critical of the Government of the day, and groups like Breaking the Silence are allowed to say and do their thing. That's what happens in a democracy. Arabs sit on the Supreme Court, and in the Knesset.

Try doing any of those things in the countries which surround Israel and you'll lose your head, or your hands, or whatever it is they do with political opponents in that part of the world.   

Not that I'm expecting any of this to sink in - we could be discussing the migration habits of passerine birds and you'd still find a way to blame the Jews. It's a staple of left-wing ideology these days. 

By the way, the next time you try and reference these discussions on the footy board, as you did again the other day, your posts won't just be deleted, but you'll get a holiday from the site too. 

Shabbat shalom  

 

It's a staple of left-wing ideology these days. 

Speaking of blanket comments: It seems to me of late that Israel and some of her supporters have become a tad sensitive of late. A case in point was the leader of Israel having a go at New Zealand our closest ally when he was here in OZ. All poor N. Z. did was sponser an anti settlement ressolution. I know its a complex problem but NZ has a right to vote in the UN as it sees fit.

On a seperate topic, I support Israel's right to defend itself a great deal, but I would at least like to know as a citizen of the world if she has nukes. Not confirming or denying is not just bad manners but also a bit on the arrogant side.

Shabbat shalom

Edited June 30, 2017 by leave it to deever

[dieter 3,325]

On 6/30/2017 at 3:38 PM, Grapeviney said:

Not that I'm expecting any of this to sink in - we could be discussing the migration habits of passerine birds and you'd still find a way to blame the Jews. It's a staple of left-wing ideology these days. 

By the way, the next time you try and reference these discussions on the footy board, as you did again the other day, your posts won't just be deleted, but you'll get a holiday from the site too.

This topic is about the Manchester Bombing. The topic soon became toxic with posts about the Muslim faith, about the behavior of Muslims, about their proclivity for terrorism.

I find this kind of generalized hatred of a people and a faith as loathsome as the vile propaganda and lies spread about Jews in Europe. In fact, I describe this Muslim phobia as the new Anti-Semitism.

I am trying to point  out that terrorism did not appear from a vacuum, by pointing out that there is a history of European colonisation and exploitation which has caused some people from that part of the world to feel anger and distrust about our way of life. Just witness Iraq, Libya, and now Syria where American backed forces are trying to implement regime change, the way they did in Libya. The dissafected people who have made some of terrorist attacks happen to be mostly Muslim. Suddenly the whole Muslim religion has become the problem and just about every Muslim is deemed as bad and a potential terrorist to many people who have responded to this topic.

If they did know anything about the history of the Middle East they would know that under the Muslim Ottomans and before the Ottomans, you could speak the language you were born with, you could practice any faith you liked and you were treated as a citizen with the obligations of a citizen. It was a truly multi-cultural society.

Jews especially prospered as communities in Baghdad, Cairo, Yemen, Damascus etc, and Jerusalem remained as the spiritual Capital, accessible to anyone and everyone, of any faith under that Muslim rule.

Wrecker finds it difficult to understand how Hanson, Bolt and all the Muslim haters are relevant to this post. I am trying to make them understand that banning a whole people, by focusing on the less savory aspects of a faith - all three 'Biblical' faiths are full of hatred and destructive violence - the debate starts to sound like ignorant,racist diatribes.

And, just for the record, I don't happen to have a so-called left-wing' ideology. That word 'left wing' gets bandied about on this site by people who believe that anyone with different views to themselves is on the lunatic fringe.

And, also, just for the record, the reference to Israel was prompted by Prodee's  assertion that Palestinian babies are fed hatred of Jews from their mother's breasts. It is not an Anti-Semitic remark, just another side of long standing debate.

 

 

 

Edited July 1, 2017 by dieter

[Gator 17,449]

Just another moderate.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4656926/amp/Student-union-president-calls-Islamic-takeover.html

[Crompton's the man 659]

On 29/06/2017 at 7:13 PM, leave it to deever said:

Yep great post. Its a complex problem. Perhaps not letting the muslim population not get any bigger would help. Ie immigration levels from Islam countries should not be higher than the level of muslims already living here. Ie if 2% of the population is muslim than 2% can come in.

In truth I dont have any answers. Really wish I did. I feel sorry for the great aussies who are muslims but am also worried about my children being blown up at a concert as are they I guess,

Was thinking at the Anzac game about having to be searched and how sad it was.

Probably best if I just read footy posts but its comforting that there are some good people posting about this without some totally crazy views.

 

I spent some time with a senior police figure during the week who I regard as a person of high integrity and personally tough when required and, in discussion, this general spectrum of issues arose.

Part of the purview of community policing involves meeting with Muslim leaders and the take home view of this highly experienced officer is that there was never at any time a problem in terms of community disorder/subversion in the Muslim sector, and that these same community leaders were almost hanging their heads in shame in that they were being placed in a public position of being associated with the atrocities of the type which led to this thread starting.

I suppose that for some of us as well as myself, this has been an issue - the silent majority being so (publicly) silent.

 Conversely, there has been demonstrable thuggery from the anti-migration sector (in some of its manifestations) from groups waving Australian flags and the like.

I found that the conversation gave me a different perspective to the worrying media reports.

[Gator 17,449]

Cultural enrichment.

 

[Jara 1,153]

2-3 % of our population is Muslim. Many of them were born here. They are our fellow citizens. 

Our only option is to communicate with them. If we keep vilifying them and cherry-picking revolting occurrences from around the world, it will make things worse. 

[Wrecker45 3,378]

1 hour ago, Jara said:

2-3 % of our population is Muslim. Many of them were born here. They are our fellow citizens. 

Our only option is to communicate with them. If we keep vilifying them and cherry-picking revolting occurrences from around the world, it will make things worse. 

2 - 3% of the current population are Muslim but terrorism in Australia is near 100% from Muslims. As you say many were born here and are second generation.

The revolting occurrences around the world you refer to are almost exclusively committed by Muslims.

Can we protect Australian citizens by limiting Muslim immigration? I personally want to help the disadvantaged as much as possible with our immigration but there needs to be some kind of "buy in" test and it should be ongoing. Paul Roos was in my opinion a poor match day coach but he could build a good culture and the dees are reaping the benefits now. We need to build a great Australian culture in this country and that includes larakinism. 

 

[Jara 1,153]

The creepy video that Pro published was a litany of stories about women being raped by Muslims in Europe.

 

I'm all for punishing crime when it occurs, and I'd happily throw terrorists into jail and throw away the key, but in cherry-picking incidents like that and splattering them all over a football club website, Pro is inciting division in our community and alienating the young men who are vulnerable to being radicalised. In fact he is increasing the danger to us all.

 

I dare say there are people in Syria and Iraq putting out the same propaganda about us. They are bigots, and so is Pro. 

[Biffen 12,944]

Dieter- you are misinformed about the Ottoman Empire,as with most things.

Nobody is arguing for the vilification of Australian Muslims.

We'd appreciate if the zealots could all blow themselves up ,run over themselves and knife themselves but they are targeting "the west"and would like us to live like they do.i.e- savages.