The Importance of Jordan Lewis

[Bay Riffin 1,454]

3 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

I'm not a rap for Lewis although I recognize his value to the team.  I acknowledged that when I said " Now Lewis still has some value to the team and I'm not dropping him yet or saying useless."  That recognition leads me to believe that he would certainly have made us a 3 point better team against Freo and possibly a 14 point better team against Richmond. The fact that he wasn't there because he decided to hit someone behind play fracturing their face resulting in a 3 week suspension is galling and a appalling failure of leadership for which many here are applauding him for.

My comments were based around the adulation he gets and the comments like Abe (not the only one) saying " Lewis is our best leader, hands down."  I articulated why I dispute that view.  Viney and Jones have been very good leaders and have demonstrated that on the field.  Lewis hasn't.

And for the record I never said he did "nothing" so your "foot in both camps or in your mouth" is clearly misplaced.

 

 

It's commonly asserted that Lewis is the leader and coach we need on the ground.  That is, by and large, an intangible and reminds me of people who quote stats to support an argument and then when the stats don't support them discredit them as being misleading.  There are a number on here that do that. But those claiming "leader and coach" values are really just guessing because unless you're in the club you just don't know.  From what I've seen he's not someone I'd follow into battle in the way I would Jones and Viney and I can say that because I can see what the three of them bring on field, not some off field intangible psychobabble guessing of many here.

The assertion is also an insult to our other leaders.  Jones, Vince, Jetta, Vince, Tom McDonald and Watts have all played in excess of 100 and some many more. They are able to understand game plans and direct players.  We have had exceptional player development FD personnel like McCartney, Roos, Goodwin and others mentoring these guys for some time.  They have been successful in doing that and that would carry over to the "on field coach" attribute.  Lewis of course could do it as well and be very good but our development is seriously wrong if he is so valuable in this role primary to his playing performance.

First and foremost Lewis needs to get games because he's good enough to earn them.  There should be no gifts.  If he's not in the best 22 he doesn't play, his leadership should just be valuable garnish. 

My view is Lewis is lauded on this site beyond his contribution and he will fast become a player struggling for a place in the team, perhaps as early as next year. Oh, and for the record I'm glad we got him, he was cheap and he adds value but not to the extent asserted here.

The assertion is not an insult to our leaders at all. Have a look at our record with those leaders in the team over the past few years. Lewis has been critical to us when the game is going against us. Far to often when the momentum swings like the 2nd quarter on Monday, we have curled up our toes and got shellacked.

Goodwin will have him as one of the first picked every week.

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,620]

I'm going to have another look at the replay but remember Lewis cracking in the last 15 mins of the game when it was in the balance but agreed definitely had a shocker his on field leadership is a must but if he continues to play 2-3 poor ones well he's not immune to being dropped.

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

34 minutes ago, Bay Riffin said:

 Have a look at our record with those leaders in the team over the past few years.

I'd have a look at the team first, but that's just me.

[old55 22,979]

Lewis cost $s but no trade value.  He's a bit like Roos - a stabilising influence that gives our club some veritas inside and outside.  He's in decline, but it was a good trade.  It will be interesting to see how we manage it.  I expect him to play well against the Dogs btw.

[Vagg 2,437]

Just watched last night's AFL 360.  Jordie was definitely stung by the bad performance.  Here's what he said:

"We went through it today [the game].  I had a bad game.  There's no doubt about it.  But, I think I can sit here and say I haven't had too many like that and, I mean, the proud person that I am, I'll be bouncing back this week in a big way."

So, here's to seeing him putting in a blinder against the doggies, and, hopefully, push aside his detractors!

[Gorgoroth 12,750]

A couple of tap ons, the massive punch that went 25 meters to Watts and if he had of grab it would have been a i50.

He had a poor game, but he still did a lot of little things right.

And a insult to our leaders... The same ones who did not flood back or position themselves correctly numerous times over the years. I've seen Lewis position our players more in his 8 games than I've seen from any one else in our team over 8 years.

[rpfc 28,072]

2 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

But I am interested in your view of "hiding" him.  It suggests you recognize his declining abilities and "football" value to the team. Are you suggesting that we retain him in the team for his leadership capabilities (which I dispute) even if he isn't up to it and there are better alternatives?

FWIW I see a lot of Adem Yze in Lewis when Ooze was in decline.

 

I had 'hide' in inverted commas so I wouldn't read too much into that...

Last year, I played a 28 year old with a shot body, no speed, fumbly with the footy early in the season... and I played him because he was like having an extra coach out there amongst a very young group. We could have won without him too, but in the last game of the season, the most important one, was the one we nearly lost but we didn't because when we were headed in the last quarter for the first time all year - we had someone out there who was instructing and imploring and pushing the younger players to keep their heads up, and keep doing the small things. He had been doing that all year - one of the few who did - and I think it paid off in the Grand Final. The kids saw an even bloke who was telling them to do the same things he had been telling them to do all year. He was one of my first picked, and he wouldn't have averaged 10 touches in the middle, but he didn't have to get the footy - we had plenty of talent - we just had no experience, brains, or calmness.

[TGR 1,367]

On 6/12/2017 at 4:38 PM, TGR said:

 

2.5 more years of carrying this guy.....tick tock tick tock.

 

Loses his feet  more than any other player since Simon Eishold.

 

 

 

The experts and majority were wrong on this one.

 

 

 

 

pTGR

Unlike Joeboy, I didn't have the luxury of sitting back, assessing his whole game, reflect, ring Finey then type like a warrior.

At half-time, blind freddy could see he was shot, and there was no way he was going to come back, like the team eventually did.  Most games this year under Goodwin, Melbourne have had a horrible quarter and a great one.  My post would have looked stupid by the end of the game if he pulled his finger out and carried us home.

 

I also didn't go the comfort zone last November and suggest that....he will be lucky to play 2.5 years of a 3 year deal.  I put my gonad on the line and said then, what some now are finally fearing.  He is gone.  The game has past him.  Going to ground and losing your feet regularly, is the first indicator surely.  Clarkson's decisions on moving Lewis and Mitchell was a masterstroke.  O'Meara's knee is another issue all together.

I was never for a 3 year deal nor a 2 year deal.  We got seduced by the romance of a name player wanting to come to us.  We got seduced by the player he was and not the player he is and will be.  As I said in November, when father-time comes, it can come quickly, especially if you have no tricks (speed like Boomer; strength-mobility like Ablett Jr.) .  Jordan Lewis has no tricks.  No speed.  No overhead prowess.  No change-of-direction wizardry.  He has had a massive career of unparalleled courage and hits; and if anyone in the league should be battle-weary by age 31, it is him.

 

Pretty easy for Jordan and his throng of supporters (at SEN and demonology, and the MFC board, and MFC list management) to put egg on the face of those of us that dare say the earth may not be flat.  All he has to do is play footy worthy of player 14-18 on the list I would have thought....week in...week out in 2017 and 2018.  I am laying on my back, eyes closed, and here is a dozen.

For those that point to the games we lost without him, should insist that the club not pick Hogan because we have won a few without him.

My advice to the natives is, don't worry about the intangible you think is "leadership".  That is a get-out.  That is the dumbest of the dumb safety net that the simpleton holds on to, with 3 fingernails.  Look deeper for once.  Switch off Robbo on 360.  Switch off Finey on SEN.  Switch off Wacky Wednesday with Cameron Schwab.  Give your brain a chance to work like it could.  Stop walking with the herd.  A carbon tax wasn't going to kill us.  A left hand right hand opening batting combination wasn't going to be a panacea.

Look at him lose his feet at most 40/60 contests, which result in us being -1 immediately.  Look at turnover, when Bevo makes sure that the outlet is the guy Lewis is chasing or responsible for.

 

Where have the thinkers gone?

 

 

pTGR

[JTR 2,844]

K

[beelzebub 23,241]

I dont watch fox... can't remember the last time i bothered with SEN

I have two eyes and hands that can convince a remote to obey.

Yet my view would be very similar to RPFC the non-obvious values.

We also seem to play better with him than without.

Happy to see how it pans out.

[BenJamin on Deesy St 805]

The man has won me over – after playing what he admitted later was a shocker, he picked out my 7-year-old daughter over the boundary line fence after the QB game, and handed her his signed footy.

People write off ageing champions every day. And yes – in this sport - he is a champ, declining or not.

Averaging over 25 touches a game this season, still adjusting to new club, personnel, system of play etc. Not bad thus far is an understatement. One poor game. Watch him respond.

P.S. First-time poster, long-time Melbourne supporter (back when we wore the royal blue and red!). Thanks Demonland, discovered this site about a year ago, really enjoy reading this forum, win or lose.

[pinkshark 948]

I find it ridiculous that there are question marks over his contribution.  I am still ecstatic every time I see him run out for us.  Absolutely [censored] ecstatic!  I was as equally annoyed when he belted whoever it was.  Stupid.  Thug like.  Made a mockery of leadership.  But, we need him.  He is a superstar of the game.  the little things he did late in the game contributed to our win. just what I expect from him.  just what I've seen him do his whole, dominant career.  

[Willmoy1947 3,973]

...and another thing, thank our lucky stars he's not anything like Goddard, Shaw or Johnson

[deelete my account 1,194]

I've noticed a lot of demonlanders trash Lewis 'effort' when he 'gives up' chasing. I think he just knows his speed limitation and is conserving energy. It may look ugly, but if it helps him still be running around at the end of the game and not sitting on the bench due to fatigue impacting the clubs rotations, then it's fine.

Edited June 14, 2017 by DominatrixTyson

[TGR 1,367]

53 minutes ago, DominatrixTyson said:

I've noticed a lot of demonlanders trash Lewis 'effort' when he 'gives up' chasing. I think he just knows his speed limitation and is conserving energy. It may look ugly, but if it helps him still be running around at the end of the game and not sitting on the bench due to fatigue impacting the clubs rotations, then it's fine.

If Nick Kyrgios does the same, we label it un-Australian?

[deelete my account 1,194]

17 minutes ago, TGR said:

If Nick Kyrgios does the same, we label it un-Australian?

We? You should think a little deeper outside the hive-mind.  Not all 'Give 110% effort!' and 'never give up' tactics are correct all the time. If you know your limitations, you play smarter and contest in a different way. If there's no way you can run down a player, don't chase (Edit: Sprint) Why bother trying to do something 'symbolic' for the fans appeasement? That's just dumb. Brayshaw will come in and have to learn a similar way of playing differently to the consensus of how you should go about it with his concussion issues, just like Jordan is doing with the adjustments he has to make with his speed limitation and energy output.

Edited June 14, 2017 by DominatrixTyson

[dee-tox 4,835]

3 hours ago, TGR said:

Unlike Joeboy, I didn't have the luxury of sitting back, assessing his whole game, reflect, ring Finey then type like a warrior.

At half-time, blind freddy could see he was shot, and there was no way he was going to come back, like the team eventually did.  Most games this year under Goodwin, Melbourne have had a horrible quarter and a great one.  My post would have looked stupid by the end of the game if he pulled his finger out and carried us home.

 

I also didn't go the comfort zone last November and suggest that....he will be lucky to play 2.5 years of a 3 year deal.  I put my gonad on the line and said then, what some now are finally fearing.  He is gone.  The game has past him.  Going to ground and losing your feet regularly, is the first indicator surely.  Clarkson's decisions on moving Lewis and Mitchell was a masterstroke.  O'Meara's knee is another issue all together.

I was never for a 3 year deal nor a 2 year deal.  We got seduced by the romance of a name player wanting to come to us.  We got seduced by the player he was and not the player he is and will be.  As I said in November, when father-time comes, it can come quickly, especially if you have no tricks (speed like Boomer; strength-mobility like Ablett Jr.) .  Jordan Lewis has no tricks.  No speed.  No overhead prowess.  No change-of-direction wizardry.  He has had a massive career of unparalleled courage and hits; and if anyone in the league should be battle-weary by age 31, it is him.

 

Pretty easy for Jordan and his throng of supporters (at SEN and demonology, and the MFC board, and MFC list management) to put egg on the face of those of us that dare say the earth may not be flat.  All he has to do is play footy worthy of player 14-18 on the list I would have thought....week in...week out in 2017 and 2018.  I am laying on my back, eyes closed, and here is a dozen.

For those that point to the games we lost without him, should insist that the club not pick Hogan because we have won a few without him.

My advice to the natives is, don't worry about the intangible you think is "leadership".  That is a get-out.  That is the dumbest of the dumb safety net that the simpleton holds on to, with 3 fingernails.  Look deeper for once.  Switch off Robbo on 360.  Switch off Finey on SEN.  Switch off Wacky Wednesday with Cameron Schwab.  Give your brain a chance to work like it could.  Stop walking with the herd.  A carbon tax wasn't going to kill us.  A left hand right hand opening batting combination wasn't going to be a panacea.

Look at him lose his feet at most 40/60 contests, which result in us being -1 immediately.  Look at turnover, when Bevo makes sure that the outlet is the guy Lewis is chasing or responsible for.

 

Where have the thinkers gone?

 

 

pTGR

10 out of 10 for pure entertainment/jococity.

Like most things in life this post is somewhere in the middle.  

[bandicoot 1,395]

4 hours ago, TGR said:

Unlike Joeboy, I didn't have the luxury of sitting back, assessing his whole game, reflect, ring Finey then type like a warrior.

At half-time, blind freddy could see he was shot, and there was no way he was going to come back, like the team eventually did.  Most games this year under Goodwin, Melbourne have had a horrible quarter and a great one.  My post would have looked stupid by the end of the game if he pulled his finger out and carried us home.

 

I also didn't go the comfort zone last November and suggest that....he will be lucky to play 2.5 years of a 3 year deal.  I put my gonad on the line and said then, what some now are finally fearing.  He is gone.  The game has past him.  Going to ground and losing your feet regularly, is the first indicator surely.  Clarkson's decisions on moving Lewis and Mitchell was a masterstroke.  O'Meara's knee is another issue all together.

I was never for a 3 year deal nor a 2 year deal.  We got seduced by the romance of a name player wanting to come to us.  We got seduced by the player he was and not the player he is and will be.  As I said in November, when father-time comes, it can come quickly, especially if you have no tricks (speed like Boomer; strength-mobility like Ablett Jr.) .  Jordan Lewis has no tricks.  No speed.  No overhead prowess.  No change-of-direction wizardry.  He has had a massive career of unparalleled courage and hits; and if anyone in the league should be battle-weary by age 31, it is him.

 

Pretty easy for Jordan and his throng of supporters (at SEN and demonology, and the MFC board, and MFC list management) to put egg on the face of those of us that dare say the earth may not be flat.  All he has to do is play footy worthy of player 14-18 on the list I would have thought....week in...week out in 2017 and 2018.  I am laying on my back, eyes closed, and here is a dozen.

For those that point to the games we lost without him, should insist that the club not pick Hogan because we have won a few without him.

My advice to the natives is, don't worry about the intangible you think is "leadership".  That is a get-out.  That is the dumbest of the dumb safety net that the simpleton holds on to, with 3 fingernails.  Look deeper for once.  Switch off Robbo on 360.  Switch off Finey on SEN.  Switch off Wacky Wednesday with Cameron Schwab.  Give your brain a chance to work like it could.  Stop walking with the herd.  A carbon tax wasn't going to kill us.  A left hand right hand opening batting combination wasn't going to be a panacea.

Look at him lose his feet at most 40/60 contests, which result in us being -1 immediately.  Look at turnover, when Bevo makes sure that the outlet is the guy Lewis is chasing or responsible for.

 

Where have the thinkers gone?

 

 

pTGR

"Unlike Joeboy, I didn't have the luxury of sitting back, assessing his whole game, reflect, ring Finey then type like a warrior."

You seem to have plenty of time sitting on this forum goading melbourne supporters.

[M_9 2,011]

6 hours ago, TGR said:

....  No change-of-direction wizardry.  

...

Rubbish. "Change of direction wizardry" is one of his strengths. Witness his first game for us v the Saints. He had 32 disposals including 18 kicks. The majority of those kicks were from the middle of the ground out to a running player on the wing or flank. We would not have won that game without his contribution.

Lewis had a shocker on Monday with just on half his usual number of disposals. Look for him to be a major player this Sunday, particularly on the tight confines of that god awful stadium.

[davo 209]

Some 'supporters' are never happy, some  tossbags will complain whatever happens, there's always someone to slag off even when we have a good win FFS

[Akum 2,660]

To start with, I reckon our game style is very different to what he's played for however many years under Clarko. For what it's worth, I don't think Melksham has really adapted to our game style either (Hibberd, on the other hand, is playing more or less the same role for us as he has done previously, so it's much easier for him).

He's also being played in an unfamiliar position as a spare in defence. I think he - and Bernie for that matter - are better on in the midfield than in defence, but we need them to play amongst a young & inexperienced defence for their composure (that word - yet again; intensity is fine, but without composure, it's just ADHD). Vince & Lewis don't look as good in an unfamiliar role, but they're prepared to play out of position for the sake of their new team. I'm kinda fine with that.

For what it's worth, I don't think we've found the best spot in our team for Lewis yet. I don't think we've worked out how to best use him. That's probably something that is just going to have to evolve, or maybe it won't.

Some of Lewis's passages of play have been superb this year. I think it was against St Kilda, there were a series messy handballs in the centre square, each one taking us closer to a turnover, until it got to Lewis under pressure. But he'd noticed out of the corner of his eye Watts charging forward away from the congestion and hit him perfectly with a bullet 20m handpass off his wrong (right) hand, with Watts not having to break stride and goaling from about 40m out. Another where he was free on the wing and instead of chipping it into the corridor, did the unexpected and belted it 50m down the ground to an unmarked Petracca over the back of the oppo's defensive zone, who marked unopposed (the defenders tried to scramble back but couldn't get to him in time because of the quality of the kick) and goaled.

It's a combination of being in the right place at the right time, vision, footy smarts, and knowing the right thing to do, and the best time to do the unpredictable.

This isn't "adulation" - Lewis like all players has his strengths & weaknesses, always has - but it shows what he's capable of contributing as a player. But straight after his worst game for the year isn't the time to judge his usefulness or otherwise. If he has another couple of shockers, then of course it's different.

 

[martin 727]

12 hours ago, TGR said:

Unlike Joeboy, I didn't have the luxury of sitting back, assessing his whole game, reflect, ring Finey then type like a warrior.

At half-time, blind freddy could see he was shot, and there was no way he was going to come back, like the team eventually did.  Most games this year under Goodwin, Melbourne have had a horrible quarter and a great one.  My post would have looked stupid by the end of the game if he pulled his finger out and carried us home.

 

I also didn't go the comfort zone last November and suggest that....he will be lucky to play 2.5 years of a 3 year deal.  I put my gonad on the line and said then, what some now are finally fearing.  He is gone.  The game has past him.  Going to ground and losing your feet regularly, is the first indicator surely.  Clarkson's decisions on moving Lewis and Mitchell was a masterstroke.  O'Meara's knee is another issue all together.

I was never for a 3 year deal nor a 2 year deal.  We got seduced by the romance of a name player wanting to come to us.  We got seduced by the player he was and not the player he is and will be.  As I said in November, when father-time comes, it can come quickly, especially if you have no tricks (speed like Boomer; strength-mobility like Ablett Jr.) .  Jordan Lewis has no tricks.  No speed.  No overhead prowess.  No change-of-direction wizardry.  He has had a massive career of unparalleled courage and hits; and if anyone in the league should be battle-weary by age 31, it is him.

 

Pretty easy for Jordan and his throng of supporters (at SEN and demonology, and the MFC board, and MFC list management) to put egg on the face of those of us that dare say the earth may not be flat.  All he has to do is play footy worthy of player 14-18 on the list I would have thought....week in...week out in 2017 and 2018.  I am laying on my back, eyes closed, and here is a dozen.

For those that point to the games we lost without him, should insist that the club not pick Hogan because we have won a few without him.

My advice to the natives is, don't worry about the intangible you think is "leadership".  That is a get-out.  That is the dumbest of the dumb safety net that the simpleton holds on to, with 3 fingernails.  Look deeper for once.  Switch off Robbo on 360.  Switch off Finey on SEN.  Switch off Wacky Wednesday with Cameron Schwab.  Give your brain a chance to work like it could.  Stop walking with the herd.  A carbon tax wasn't going to kill us.  A left hand right hand opening batting combination wasn't going to be a panacea.

Look at him lose his feet at most 40/60 contests, which result in us being -1 immediately.  Look at turnover, when Bevo makes sure that the outlet is the guy Lewis is chasing or responsible for.

 

Where have the thinkers gone?

 

 

pTGR

Really boring.?

[Demonland 70,465]

Lyon this morning on SEN.

LEWIS WON’T SEE OUT DEAL: LYON

AFL great Garry Lyon believes Jordan Lewis will struggle to see out his three year contract at Melbourne.
Lewis is in the first year of a new deal after leaving Hawthorn in the off-season.

Lyon said Lewis was having a “good, solid season” but questioned whether the four time premiership player will be able to keep up with the pace of the game in the years to come. 

“I’d be surprised if he plays the whole three years,” Lyon said on SEN radio. 

“He has influenced games more than Sam (Mitchell). He has been enormous on occasions, behind the footy, throwing himself behind the ball, controlling, dictating, his ball use is superb still. All those things have been great. 

“There will be moments where Goody (coach Simon Goodwin) will look at it and think, this is too quick for Jordan. We need to get him off or deploy him somewhere else.” 

Lyon highlighted the Queen’s Birthday clash against Collingwood as a prime example of Lewis struggling with the pace. 

“That game on Monday was lightning quick in the first half. Jordan had two possessions half way through the second quarter.

“The game was too quick for him. As the pace came off and the heat came out…he started to have more impact.

“That was great because he is a smart ball user.”

 

[DeeZee 7,347]

Interesting that he finished second in Hawks best and fairest last season and most probably not even top 8 for the Dees this year.

Edited June 14, 2017 by DeeZee

[Lucifers Hero 39,035]

A very balanced assessment by Lyon.

I can see a time when Lewis plays about 60-70% game time.  We do this with young players and players coming back from injury so no reason to not apply that principle to Lewis, or say Jones in a year or two. 

Bring Lewis on when there is a momentum swing, late in quarters 1, 2, 3 and for most of the 4th. That is when we need him the most.  He can coach off the bench when not on the ground.  This will be infinitely better than not having him on at all.   

We can also manage his playing time/energy by resting him for the long-haul games eg Perth and Darwin.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Lucifer's Hero