1 minute ago, loges said:

Gawn got injured, Weideman was giving little. What position does Pedersen normally play,.... Forward, relief ruck . Should have been Spencer in for Gawn,  Pedersen for Weideman it was a no brainer

At that stage, Pedersen hadn't played a game at Casey, or in the JLT. So no, not a no brainer. 

13 minutes ago, leehow said:

At that stage, Pedersen hadn't played a game at Casey, or in the JLT. So no, not a no brainer. 

I think it was , at least it should have come earlier, couldn't have done much less than Weideman

25 minutes ago, leehow said:

At that stage, Pedersen hadn't played a game at Casey, or in the JLT. So no, not a no brainer. 

are you sure he hadn't played in the casey practice matches? the vfl season started very late

1 minute ago, daisycutter said:

are you sure he hadn't played in the casey practice matches? the vfl season started very late

Quite possibly, I only looked back at the regular season games. Regardless, i assume the match committee didn't think he was match fit.

Anyway, if we hadn't had injuries so early in games, I don't think we would be having this discussion. It's very hard to cover and injury during a game, but even more so when it happens in the first half. And in the case of the Richmond game, to two players before half time. 

4 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

are you sure he hadn't played in the casey practice matches? the vfl season started very late

Yes, I thought he'd been mentioned in reports

1 hour ago, Fifty-5 said:

Watts is better than Pedersen at that role though.

Watts is better being Watts..not filling in.

 

7 minutes ago, leehow said:

Quite possibly, I only looked back at the regular season games. Regardless, i assume the match committee didn't think he was match fit.

Anyway, if we hadn't had injuries so early in games, I don't think we would be having this discussion. It's very hard to cover and injury during a game, but even more so when it happens in the first half. And in the case of the Richmond game, to two players before half time. 

Yes we would, and we did. With Hogan out suspended for 2 weeks, it was a no brainer that Watts was needed as a permanent forward. Instead, Goodwin picks a 1st gamer in Tim Smith to accompany Weidemann, who hadn't shown enough to date to warrant selection. 

And don't forget that Hannan was selected for round 1, after coming off an interrupted preseason and no JLT games behind him.

3 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Watts is better being Watts..not filling in.

 

Watts has played his best footy for the club in 2016-17.  That's when he's been playing the forward-ruck role.  Watts is better when he's playing this role and he's better at it than Pedersen.

Edited May 2, 20178 yr by Fifty-5

Thats not the argument, the longer Watts is in the forward line the better

5 minutes ago, mo64 said:

Yes we would, and we did. With Hogan out suspended for 2 weeks, it was a no brainer that Watts was needed as a permanent forward. Instead, Goodwin picks a 1st gamer in Tim Smith to accompany Weidemann, who hadn't shown enough to date to warrant selection. 

And don't forget that Hannan was selected for round 1, after coming off an interrupted preseason and no JLT games behind him.

leehow's point about injuries is good.

Gawn doesn't get injured early in the Geelong game - we win with a forward line of Watts, Smith, Weed.

Spencer AND Smith don't get injured early in the Richmond game - we win with a forward line of Hogan, Watts, Smith

Only the Freo game is a possible argument for Pedersen over Weed and Weed got injured himself early in that game and missed an easy shot he would kick 10/10 - we win.

Pedersen was very good on the weekend in the role he played but that's not the role he would have been selected for earlier.

 

 

Needed to revive this thread to discuss our overuse of the football/handball happy that has crept into our game. 

Obviously a Goodwin influence, it seems when we are going poorly our handball to kick ratio is off the charts. When asked about our overuse of the handball at the presser today, he didn't seem bothered by this aspect despite many expert commentators pointing it out. 

Is there a rationale behind this? Seems like we are the worst in the league with unnecessary handballs.

Not sure why every defender needs to fly for the same ball and leave the opposition at ground level, 

and why going inside 50 plan a,b and c is bomb it long and hope 

The ball needs to be in Watts' or Salem's hands when moving into forward line because they are elite kickers,. Using him as the main ruckman takes that away.

Too many close in handballs. Jobe watson at his best used the handball to clear the area. Show Clarrie some tapes of him because he is aclone of Jobe.

Having said that Jack W benefits from a run on the ball because he gets involved. Good move to start with Jesse in Middle. Bigger body and gets him into game quicker.

TMac complements these two (but not elite disposal) . That is why it is important to develop OMac/Hibberd and Sam Frost.

19 minutes ago, Abe said:

Not sure why every defender needs to fly for the same ball and leave the opposition at ground level, 

and why going inside 50 plan a,b and c is bomb it long and hope 

This is happening week after week, after week. We have no players at ground level at marking contests and it's hurting us to no end.

28 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Needed to revive this thread to discuss our overuse of the football/handball happy that has crept into our game. 

Obviously a Goodwin influence, it seems when we are going poorly our handball to kick ratio is off the charts. When asked about our overuse of the handball at the presser today, he didn't seem bothered by this aspect despite many expert commentators pointing it out. 

Is there a rationale behind this? Seems like we are the worst in the league with unnecessary handballs.

I suspect Goodwin would prefer us having the ball, rather than the opposition. And it's easier to correct than not winning the ball in the first place.

I personally think this will correct itself when all our guys learn to back each other in more and spread harder.

I'm with Goody. I'm not concerned with the overuse at this point. As Abe points out though, I'm much more concerned with our all up, no one down and letting the ball get to the back almost every time. Our defensive positioning at times today though was laughable. Wagner was a massive offender and Frost was also outsmarted a couple of times. The leadership is another major issue.

Not much Goody can do about the leadership, but I think we'll correct a lot of these things as the season goes on. I'm buoyant, but frustrated at the moment. Just waiting for it all to click. 

Edited May 7, 20178 yr by A F

Just watched Goodwin's Press Conference

he was really angry, but held it together well

but i bet a few players will be challenged hard this week. 

Go hard Simon. The players have killed far too many coaching jobs at the MFC since '64

Line in the sand. 

49 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Just watched Goodwin's Press Conference

he was really angry, but held it together well

but i bet a few players will be challenged hard this week. 

Go hard Simon. The players have killed far too many coaching jobs at the MFC since '64

Line in the sand. 

Unfortunately this is about as close to a line in the sand this club will ever get..

 

Edited May 7, 20178 yr by Mud Dogs Gonna Win

I have some serious concerns about Goodwin as a coach, and I'm actually excited to see what he does after a clearly very bad day today. 

How we play next week will tell me most of what I need to know about him as coach.

From the outside looking in, he seems to much a friend and a good guy, and not enough of a strong leader of men. I hope I'm very very wrong.

 

10 minutes ago, Mud Dogs Gonna Win said:

Unfortunately this is about as close to a line in the sand this club will ever get..

 

Sad isn't it. 

There's a selection merry-go-round going on which i starting to annoy me.

I can see some of the logic, in that we are exposing a series of young players to AFL level, and they are getting their chance to either prove themselves or be moved on at end of season. But I worry that it has a smell of not taking each game as a desperately needed four points, and that could rub off on the playing group.

Anyway, this week, based on the 'Professor Goodwin's roving microscope' program, I would reckon

Kennedy-Harris is on the way out,

Bugg is VFL

Hannan should be given a rest and allowed to develop his game, but has definite promise.

The team needs to do more to help Salem get involved, especially since our key weakness from clearances has been dumb and blind kicking.

Vince, despite good numbers, is not having much impact and action needs to be taken, even dropping him in favour of Stretch would suit me.

Melksham needs to spend some time in the VFL until he realises that to make it now, he needs to be actually better than he was at Essendon, not just maintain that level. Tackling would be a good start.

Frost is developing nicely in just the way many close observers predicted/hoped.

Gawn is a legit champion and his absence is as big for us as Mumford's absence was for GWS a couple of years ago.

 

So... I guess we are at least learning something on Goodwin's "Journey".

 

1 hour ago, Abe said:

Not sure why every defender needs to fly for the same ball and leave the opposition at ground level, 

and why going inside 50 plan a,b and c is bomb it long and hope 

 

1 hour ago, Beetle said:

This is happening week after week, after week. We have no players at ground level at marking contests and it's hurting us to no end.

We don't have any real height in defence...everyone panics when an opposition tall gets near the ball.

The coaching group need to sort this out.

It is amazing how many times each week far too many defenders go up for the spoil which leaves about 3 of the opposition ready to get an easy goal. Am I the only one not so worried about the over use of the handball? We do over use it sometimes for sure but I can see the plan is to obviously get it to someone who has some time and space to make a non split second decision with the ball, we just keep making so many unforced errors with our kicking.

2 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Needed to revive this thread to discuss our overuse of the football/handball happy that has crept into our game. 

Obviously a Goodwin influence, it seems when we are going poorly our handball to kick ratio is off the charts. When asked about our overuse of the handball at the presser today, he didn't seem bothered by this aspect despite many expert commentators pointing it out. 

Is there a rationale behind this? Seems like we are the worst in the league with unnecessary handballs.

 

1 hour ago, A F said:

I suspect Goodwin would prefer us having the ball, rather than the opposition. And it's easier to correct than not winning the ball in the first place.

I personally think this will correct itself when all our guys learn to back each other in more and spread harder.

I'm with Goody. I'm not concerned with the overuse at this point. As Abe points out though, I'm much more concerned with our all up, no one down and letting the ball get to the back almost every time. Our defensive positioning at times today though was laughable. Wagner was a massive offender and Frost was also outsmarted a couple of times. The leadership is another major issue.

Not much Goody can do about the leadership, but I think we'll correct a lot of these things as the season goes on. I'm buoyant, but frustrated at the moment. Just waiting for it all to click. 

Overuse is a big problem if you can't use the ball well.

It's a bit of a South Australian trait, it's the way they've always played footy, chip the ball around and find space. During the Craig years ...the Crows used this style & had it down well enough to win games during the season and came unstuck when under serious pressure and/or in poor weather. Mainly in the finals.

I'm interested to watch how this unfolds with Goodwin but I think until we get some more class in the team we will be very susceptible to pressure from the opposition and on bad weather days.

 

Edited May 7, 20178 yr by rjay

1 hour ago, Mud Dogs Gonna Win said:

Unfortunately this is about as close to a line in the sand this club will ever get..

 

Tom draws a diagram of Melbourne's zone defence for brother Oscar. 

2 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Needed to revive this thread to discuss our overuse of the football/handball happy that has crept into our game. 

Obviously a Goodwin influence, it seems when we are going poorly our handball to kick ratio is off the charts. When asked about our overuse of the handball at the presser today, he didn't seem bothered by this aspect despite many expert commentators pointing it out. 

Is there a rationale behind this? Seems like we are the worst in the league with unnecessary handballs.

He also said we hand-balled too much. But when he says he's not bothered by this aspect, it's probably because it's not the hand-balling per se, but some other aspect which caused the poor hand-balls.