The "Viney can't kick" stigma...fair or unfair?

[Satyriconhome 10,878]

8 hours ago, nutbean said:

I am usually circumspect when it comes to criticism of you but isn't discussing the team and players strengths and weaknesses what this forum is about ?

We are not telling "him" anything - we are discussing what most would agree is a valid discussion point.

I don't think one poster on this forum would want anything more than for Viney to improve further because I would suggest that he is universally loved on this site for his uncompromising attack on the contest. 

I hate the phrase "bleeds red and blue" when it is applied to players but Viney comes pretty close.

Agreed,  but that's my opinion, this topic is similar to others where the so called, usually by themselves, footy experts sprout forth

I know exactly what Jack is working on coz I talk to him

Personally I don't think there is much wrong with his kicking, but every player is looking at improving every facet of his game

 

Edited March 9, 2017 by Grapeviney

[nutbean 8,838]

2 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Agreed,  but that's my opinion, this topic is similar to others where the so called, usually by themselves, footy experts sprout forth

I know exactly what Jack is working on coz I talk to him

Personally I don't think there is much wrong with his kicking, but every player is looking at improving every facet of his game

 

everyone has opinion on footy and they are wide and varied and that's why we tragics keeps coming back here  - to talk  footy like we are all experts. I reckon 90% of the folk on here are measured and balanced in their views and the more "emotional" posters will usually get shot down.

I am only incredulous that you just realised this forum is inhabited by footy experts.

 

On topic though  - if you did a simple analysis on Viney's game based purely on strengths and weaknesses - I think most on here would certainly not have his kicking as a strength.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Grapeviney

[Wiseblood 24,637]

2 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Agreed,  but that's my opinion, this topic is similar to others where the so called, usually by themselves, footy experts sprout forth

I know exactly what Jack is working on coz I talk to him

Personally I don't think there is much wrong with his kicking, but every player is looking at improving every facet of his game

 

 

This topic here is what you call a discussion, where supporters log on to discuss topics just like they would at a game, at home, in a pub etc.  That's all it is. No one was bagging out Jack, but it's a fair point on his kicking and people were discussing it in a civil manner.  Why you feel the need to show up and rubbish it is beyond me.  

I find it ironic that you say you know what Jack is working on because you speak to him - i thought you didn't believe what they say?  Or do you pick and choose those moments to suit your posting? 

[dazzledavey36 54,961]

2 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Agreed,  but that's my opinion, this topic is similar to others where the so called, usually by themselves, footy experts sprout forth

I know exactly what Jack is working on coz I talk to him

Personally I don't think there is much wrong with his kicking, but every player is looking at improving every facet of his game

 

Mate stop acting like your on a higher pedestal then everyone else on here because 'you talk to the players'. Its becoming more evident that the players are reluctant to tell you much now eg Frost and Garlett, because you come here and sprout it all. Your not their mate, your pest.. only you can't see that.

And no one on here has professed to be a footy expert at all. But this is a Football Forum where we give opinions and ideas. No one has bagged out Viney but as spectators who watch every week and give opinion on things they could work on that perhaps could really improve their game. There is no harm in it and as fans we enjoy talking footy and giving opinions.

But for you to constantly come on here and criticise anyone that share any sort of opinion is downright pathetic and tiresome. If you cant hack supporters giving an opinion then do yourself a huge favour and deactivate your account because its very obvious you take serious offence to anyone who shares any sort of an opinion on players or club.

 

Edited March 9, 2017 by Grapeviney

[P-man 13,366]

Anyhoo.

Thanks to those who saw fit to provide a constructive response. It's healthy to take off the red and blue goggles now and then. A harder thing to do where JV is concerned.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, P-man said:

Anyhoo.

Thanks to those who saw fit to provide a constructive response. It's healthy to take off the red and blue goggles now and then. A harder thing to do where JV is concerned.

It's an interesting issue, though - does his kicking, which can be inconsistent at times, hold him back from being an elite player?  His contested ball skills, running capacity, leadership, courage etc are, to me, already elite, if not close to it.  But his kicking can most definitely let him down.  

I don't think it holds him back too much as he is in the contested situations more often than not and firing out handballs rather than kicking, but if he can make his kicking more consistent over that 35-40m bracket then he will up his game even more.

[nutbean 8,838]

2 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

It's an interesting issue, though - does his kicking, which can be inconsistent at times, hold him back from being an elite player?  His contested ball skills, running capacity, leadership, courage etc are, to me, already elite, if not close to it.  But his kicking can most definitely let him down.  

I don't think it holds him back too much as he is in the contested situations more often than not and firing out handballs rather than kicking, but if he can make his kicking more consistent over that 35-40m bracket then he will up his game even more.

The first part of your question is "yes" - to me that does hold him back.

Can it be improved - Nathan Jones absolutely lifted his disposal efficiency from being decidedly average early in his career. I remember Jones had a few games last year where he turned the ball over a bit and it shocked me - it shows you how far he has come with his kicking.

 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, nutbean said:

The first part of your question is "yes" - to me that does hold him back.

Can it be improved - Nathan Jones absolutely lifted his disposal efficiency from being decidedly average early in his career. I remember Jones had a few games last year where he turned the ball over a bit and it shocked me - it shows you how far he has come with his kicking.

 

I've got no doubt that he can improve it.  I always thought that, later in his career, his old man was a more reliable kick than he was earlier in his career, and if Jack can follow the same trajectory then we've got an extremely good player on our hands (if he isn't close to that already!)

[P-man 13,366]

14 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

It's an interesting issue, though - does his kicking, which can be inconsistent at times, hold him back from being an elite player?  His contested ball skills, running capacity, leadership, courage etc are, to me, already elite, if not close to it.  But his kicking can most definitely let him down.  

I don't think it holds him back too much as he is in the contested situations more often than not and firing out handballs rather than kicking, but if he can make his kicking more consistent over that 35-40m bracket then he will up his game even more.

Pretty much.

For me I focus so much on the elite attributes that you mention, I probably have paid less attention to his kicking recently. Which is strange given it's the fundamental skill of the game. It's the circumstances in which he disposes of the ball that leads me to be more accepting of him just moving the ball forward, as when he's not under pressure he's generally pretty good.

So I kind of roll my eyes when oppositon supporters talk down his kicking as though it's still this huge detriment. I acknowledge it's the weakest part of his game but as you say, how much it is holding him back is the question. As well as the scope for improvement. I think the Jones comparison is a valid one in terms of the gains he can make.

I can also confirm that both hands were used for the writing of this post. 

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

5 minutes ago, nutbean said:

The first part of your question is "yes" - to me that does hold him back.

Can it be improved - Nathan Jones absolutely lifted his disposal efficiency from being decidedly average early in his career. I remember Jones had a few games last year where he turned the ball over a bit and it shocked me - it shows you how far he has come with his kicking.

 

Im not so sure it does. There are many an "elite" player who were pretty ordinary kicks. Swan and Judd to name a couple. Yeah its probably stoping him from being the absolute best in the league but he could still be among the elite. All players have weaknesses. some are great kicks but cant win their own ball. Some are great ball winners and users but also are worth less than a witches hat on defence.

Jack might be an ordinary kick but whats his next weakness?  I suppose he cant ruck  

[Ted Lasso 19,521]

22 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

He does and wants to improve, doesn't need the'experts' on here telling him

He has a great teacher in not only Jonesy who is getting better with age, but a leftie called Lewis as well

That's not what I said saty and you know it, once again you can't take someone fairly critiquing one particular aspect of jacks game on a discussion forum and you make a silly comment. 

[dazzledavey36 54,961]

Watching Jack tonight with his kicking = Lol.. He needs work on it if he is going to go up another level.

[Older demon 2,741]

I would like to see him less reliant on his left side. Rarely appears able to kick with his right foot. he is never going to be a raking long left foot but needs to his more targets.

[Ted Lasso 19,521]

Little concerned about jack being captain, looks like he is trying a little to hard, just need him to be a good player

[DemonOX 8,791]

Tonight's game ain't doin Jack any favours. 

[deegirl 1,578]

3 minutes ago, Older demon said:

I would like to see him less reliant on his left side. Rarely appears able to kick with his right foot. he is never going to be a raking long left foot but needs to his more targets.

Bang on. That he has no right foot is the thing that could hold him back from elite.