5 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I'm with Deestroy All on this, from what I've heard there is more to it than just bad training habits.

And what is it, if you'll be so kind?

4 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Absolutely. He can do it. It just has to be automatic. 

I saw JW play a few games of schoolboy footy. He was that good he didn't have to try. I am sure this is where it all stems from. 

I can vouch for that....

Only 7 pages long

Jack is disappointing on and off field 

2 hours ago, sue said:

Wow. How many posts have I read saying that what a schoolboy is like bears little resemblance to performance at AFL level.  So still leaves the question 'why Jack'.  For Demon supporters during a bleak time I think it comes down to him not being the messiah.  The motivations of the press are less nice.

And yes ClintB, it is down to him if he gets better or worse.  Doesn't change the fact that it may turn out to be a mistake on the part of the club to have put the pressure on. Let's hope not.

 "What a schoolboy is like bears little resemblance to performance at AFL level."

Why has Jack never got it....? 

Edited March 3, 20178 yr by Sir Why You Little

21 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I'm with Deestroy All on this, from what I've heard there is more to it than just bad training habits.

Well if so, Someone out there must have some S.P ??

Simply a lock for Round 1 surely??

 

JKH is out for 8 weeks and VdB had an injury concern over his ankle. Watts might just get lucky...

We have improved our side over the past three years,there are very few spuds left (if any) so it is about time to stop slagging players. So what if Watts doesn't play rd 1 someone else will have to stand up..

On 03/03/2017 at 3:40 PM, sue said:

He's a better pick 1 than many other pick 1's.  For that we should be glad and hope that Mr Goodwin's current ploy will enhance him and not the reverse. 

Since 2000 who has he been better than ?

There's no point going back 20+ years ago when recruiting was far less savvy and recruiting departments underfunded.  

50 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Since 2000 who has he been better than ?

There's no point going back 20+ years ago when recruiting was far less savvy and recruiting departments underfunded.  

In an earlier post you listed a number of really good, household name, 'premiership' players, all of whom were top 10 draft picks.

I can't recall how many players you listed, but I think it was about 10. I seem to recall that Chris Judd was the elder statesman of the group, in that he was selected by the Weagles at pick 3 in the 2001 draft. 

Judd's draft included, there have been 16 drafts in that timeframe. That's 160 'top ten' players being brought into the system. Confirmation bias aside, there's no way Jack Watts has been a dud when compared to all 160 draft picks. Sure, there have been some players who've been sensational, but the majority have not. They're probably fixing light bulbs in your pool room these days.

I reckon Watts will play 200 games for this club. He might very well also walk away one day with a premiership medallion and a Norm Smith medal around his neck. That may not happen, obviously - but there's no way he's been a dud selection. Your hopes for him, whatever they are, are just that - 'hopes'. Plainly he hasn't delivered on them for you, but he's a quality player and a 'value add' to the team nonetheless.

 

4 hours ago, ProDee said:

Since 2000 who has he been better than ?

There's no point going back 20+ years ago when recruiting was far less savvy and recruiting departments underfunded.  

Since 2000, in my opinion Jack Watts has been better than the following number 1 picks:

2007    Matthew Kreuzer    Carlton    
  
2009    Tom Scully    Melbourne    
2010    David Swallow    Gold Coast  
2011    Jonathon Patton    Greater Western Sydney    
2012    Lachie Whitfield    Greater Western Sydney    
2013    Tom Boyd    Greater Western Sydney    
2014    Paddy McCartin    St Kilda    
2015    Jacob Weitering    Carlton    
2016    Andrew McGrath    Essendon  

Stand aside all you doubters

Of course he will

8 hours ago, ProDee said:

Since 2000 who has he been better than ?

There's no point going back 20+ years ago when recruiting was far less savvy and recruiting departments underfunded.  

Your fixation with Jack Watts is unhealthy.

7 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said:

In an earlier post you listed a number of really good, household name, 'premiership' players, all of whom were top 10 draft picks.

I can't recall how many players you listed, but I think it was about 10. I seem to recall that Chris Judd was the elder statesman of the group, in that he was selected by the Weagles at pick 3 in the 2001 draft. 

Judd's draft included, there have been 16 drafts in that timeframe. That's 160 'top ten' players being brought into the system. Confirmation bias aside, there's no way Jack Watts has been a dud when compared to all 160 draft picks. Sure, there have been some players who've been sensational, but the majority have not. They're probably fixing light bulbs in your pool room these days.

I reckon Watts will play 200 games for this club. He might very well also walk away one day with a premiership medallion and a Norm Smith medal around his neck. That may not happen, obviously - but there's no way he's been a dud selection. Your hopes for him, whatever they are, are just that - 'hopes'. Plainly he hasn't delivered on them for you, but he's a quality player and a 'value add' to the team nonetheless.

 

I agree with some, but not all of this.  One good year in 8 is a miserable output.

That said, I'm not sure why you're quoting me, as your post is utterly irrelevant to my question. 

Someone said Watts has been better than many other no. 1 draft picks and I was curious as to who they thought he'd been better than. 

Another poster answered the question.  Badly.

7 hours ago, ProDee said:

I agree with some, but not all of this.  One good year in 8 is a miserable output.

That said, I'm not sure why you're quoting me, as your post is utterly irrelevant to my question. 

Someone said Watts has been better than many other no. 1 draft picks and I was curious as to who they thought he'd been better than. 

Another poster answered the question.  Badly.

Badly or not, it's a bit simplistic to focus on #1 since whether a player is taken at 1 or 4 can depend on the requirements of the teams with the early picks rather than how good the #1 player is/will be.    I probably should have said top 5 or somesuch in which case your dismissal of the claim that Watts is better than many other top picks would be a lot harder to make. 

I am firmly of the view that the focus on Watts is mainly the result of the disappointed hopes for a messiah amongst MFC supporters and has little to do with Watts himself.

Exactly. All Watts did was nominate for the draft.

That he got selected with pick one wasn't his decision.

The level of scrutiny that he has attracted since is quite ridiculous.

 

9 hours ago, ProDee said:

I agree with some, but not all of this.  One good year in 8 is a miserable output.

That said, I'm not sure why you're quoting me, as your post is utterly irrelevant to my question. 

Someone said Watts has been better than many other no. 1 draft picks and I was curious as to who they thought he'd been better than. 

Another poster answered the question.  Badly.

Surely it's more relevant to compare Watts to other players in his draft, rather than Watts to other number one picks in different drafts.

A comparison to players in other drafts just illustrates the difference in quality of each draft. That he was the number one pick in a poor draft doesn't mean that he wasn't the best player in that year - it just means it may have been a tres ordinaire draft in that particular year.

As an aside, I've always thought Hurley, not Nik Nat, was the player we probably should've selected.

 

He'll take his spot round one and his footy nous and silky finishing skills will be on display.

16 hours ago, binman said:

Since 2000, in my opinion Jack Watts has been better than the following number 1 picks:

2007    Matthew Kreuzer    Carlton    
  
2009    Tom Scully    Melbourne    
2010    David Swallow    Gold Coast  
2011    Jonathon Patton    Greater Western Sydney    
2012    Lachie Whitfield    Greater Western Sydney    
2013    Tom Boyd    Greater Western Sydney    
2014    Paddy McCartin    St Kilda    
2015    Jacob Weitering    Carlton    
2016    Andrew McGrath    Essendon  

Yes that is your opinion and yours alone..

4 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Yes that is your opinion and yours alone..

Well said Saty...

1 hour ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Surely it's more relevant to compare Watts to other players in his draft, rather than Watts to other number one picks in different drafts.

A comparison to players in other drafts just illustrates the difference in quality of each draft. That he was the number one pick in a poor draft doesn't mean that he wasn't the best player in that year - it just means it may have been a tres ordinaire draft in that particular year.

As an aside, I've always thought Hurley, not Nik Nat, was the player we probably should've selected.

 

I'm not sure why so many supporters have a predilection to quote me re Watts.

My views on him are nothing more than plain speak, but for some reason plain speak makes people feel uncomfortable in what has become the most politically correct generation in history.  

10 points...

1. Watts didn't ask to be pick one, but he wanted to be.  Most elite talents want the mantle and Watts embraced it and Melbourne at the time.  Petracca also recently said he wanted it, but didn't get it.  And with that honour it's my view a player should do the utmost to make themself the best player they can be.  Not only for themself, but for the club that showed enough faith to bestow the honour.  Whether others see such a leap of faith (pick one) as a poisoned chalice is up to them.  I don't subscribe to that theory.  You may not ultimately be pick one worthy, but dedicate yoursel to be the best player you can be.  Every player should aspire to fulfilling their talent.

2.  Was Watts developed properly ?  No, he was handled poorly by a poorly run club.  He should have been protected from the limelight, not made into a messiah.  The club let him down.

3.  Is he an elite talent ?  Yes.  But his talent is overrated for one main reason, he doesn't and never has had courage in the air.  Young, skinny Weideman has courage in the air.  Many players don't.   Watts doesn't.  Btw, there's a difference between not having courage in the air and being soft in the air.  Unfortunately, especially when he was younger, Watts was soft in the air.

4.  What level does Watts have the ability to reach ?  A-grade.  Due to a lack of physicality and courage in the air it's my view he could never be absolutely elite, or a bona fide star, but he does have the ability to reach AA status and be considered a top 50 player in the game, which is enough to be considered A-grade for mine.

5.  Has he had passable years ?  Yes.  As a developing young tall his third year was reasonable and last year was a very solid B-grade year and something to build upon.

6.  Has he underachieved over his entire career to date ?  Yes, notwithstanding the poor early development, he hasn't been driven to be the best he can be.  And one B-grade year for a player of such talent is a fail.  If you think 2016 was the highest level he can achieve then we won't agree.  And even if I accepted that view it's still a minimum standard.

7.  Do I like or dislike Watts ?  I often dislike the footballer, although 2016 was a massive step in the right direction, but one cannot but like the person.  My eldest Brother (Hawthorn supporter) was on the same plane once and Jack walked down the aisle smiling and saying hello to everyone.  He's just a lovely guy.

8.  Do I respect his talent ?  No, he was born with it.  It's what one does with their talent that's essential. 

9.  Do I want him to fail ?  No.  I laud him when he shines and I'm critical when he's insipid.  I want the club to succeed, I want every Melbourne player to succeed.  

10.  Do I think other supporters are soft on Watts ?  Unquestionably.  They're satisfied by third rate performances.  All they see is a talented player who gets a hard time in the media.  They must have been shocked by his 38 goal haul and improved play across the board in 2016, because to them he was fine before that anyway.  If the club traded him many would have blamed the club, not the underperforming player.

And then they felt vindicated by his improved output last year even though they never called for it.  Not only didn't they call for it, they defended his C-grade years.

They're probably lovely people, but I'd rather spend a year in solitary confinement than have to discuss footy with them over a beer.

Hopefully this post means that no boring braindead apologist ever needs to quote me again on Watts. I apologise for future plain speak and the subsequent offence it will no doubt cause.  

All I do is say it as it is (what happened to that poster ?  ).

I remember when Jacks main problem was the beard,now it's the hairstyle.

Prodee makes a few valid points but it's all ancient history.

My footy coach always said"reputations mean nothing" and "you are only as good as your  last game".

Jack Watts has a PR problem as far as I can tell.

I await the article/photo of him with a kid who has terminal cancer,shortly after he has won us another game.

"Je suis Jack".

36 minutes ago, ProDee said:

I'm not sure why so many supporters have a predilection to quote me re Watts.

My views on him are nothing more than plain speak, but for some reason plain speak makes people feel uncomfortable in what has become the most politically correct generation in history.  

10 points...

1. Watts didn't ask to be pick one, but he wanted to be.  Most elite talents want the mantle and Watts embraced it and Melbourne at the time.  Petracca also recently said he wanted it, but didn't get it.  And with that honour it's my view a player should do the utmost to make themself the best player they can be.  Not only for themself, but for the club that showed enough faith to bestow the honour.  Whether others see such a leap of faith (pick one) as a poisoned chalice is up to them.  I don't subscribe to that theory.  You may not ultimately be pick one worthy, but dedicate yoursel to be the best player you can be.  Every player should aspire to fulfilling their talent.

2.  Was Watts developed properly ?  No, he was handled poorly by a poorly run club.  He should have been protected from the limelight, not made into a messiah.  The club let him down.

3.  Is he an elite talent ?  Yes.  But his talent is overrated for one main reason, he doesn't and never has had courage in the air.  Young, skinny Weideman has courage in the air.  Many players don't.   Watts doesn't.  Btw, there's a difference between not having courage in the air and being soft in the air.  Unfortunately, especially when he was younger, Watts was soft in the air.

4.  What level does Watts have the ability to reach ?  A-grade.  Due to a lack of physicality and courage in the air it's my view he could never be absolutely elite, or a bona fide star, but he does have the ability to reach AA status and be considered a top 50 player in the game, which is enough to be considered A-grade for mine.

5.  Has he had passable years ?  Yes.  As a developing young tall his third year was reasonable and last year was a very solid B-grade year and something to build upon.

6.  Has he underachieved over his entire career to date ?  Yes, notwithstanding the poor early development, he hasn't been driven to be the best he can be.  And one B-grade year for a player of such talent is a fail.  If you think 2016 was the highest level he can achieve then we won't agree.  And even if I accepted that view it's still a minimum standard.

7.  Do I like or dislike Watts ?  I often dislike the footballer, although 2016 was a massive step in the right direction, but one cannot but like the person.  My eldest Brother (Hawthorn supporter) was on the same plane once and Jack walked down the aisle smiling and saying hello to everyone.  He's just a lovely guy.

8.  Do I respect his talent ?  No, he was born with it.  It's what one does with their talent that's essential. 

9.  Do I want him to fail ?  No.  I laud him when he shines and I'm critical when he's insipid.  I want the club to succeed, I want every Melbourne player to succeed.  

10.  Do I think other supporters are soft on Watts ?  Unquestionably.  They're satisfied by third rate performances.  All they see is a talented player who gets a hard time in the media.  They must have been shocked by his 38 goal haul and improved play across the board in 2016, because to them he was fine before that anyway.  If the club traded him many would have blamed the club, not the underperforming player.

And then they felt vindicated by his improved output last year even though they never called for it.  Not only didn't they call for it, they defended his C-grade years.

They're probably lovely people, but I'd rather spend a year in solitary confinement than have to discuss footy with them over a beer.

Hopefully this post means that no boring braindead apologist ever needs to quote me again on Watts. I apologise for future plain speak and the subsequent offence it will no doubt cause.  

All I do is say it as it is (what happened to that poster ?  ).

Really good post. Don't disagree with any of your analysis, other than I think Watts season last year was bloody good (better than a B) and I think we have a very valuable player on our hands, who might (now) be worthy of pick one in that draft.

 

I've no doubt that there would be fifty players throughout the league who haven't 'trained the house down'. Jack, unfortunately for him, possesses all the ingredients that excite the media swill and, by extension, the baying bogans. Went to a private school in a well to do area - tick. His playing style looks laconic (as opposed to lazy) - tick. Doesn't have a 'sleave' tattoo - tick. Plays for a club that is not seen as working class - tick. Has outside interests - tick.

I'm with Biffen on this. It's a PR issue and he needs to iron out a taxi driver late at night (or an uber driver if we want to go new school) and/ or cause a minor ruckus at The Pantry, Church Rd Brighton. Perhaps kick a poodle or order a flat white..

2 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Really good post. Don't disagree with any of your analysis, other than I think Watts season last year was bloody good (better than a B) and I think we have a very valuable player on our hands, who might (now) be worthy of pick one in that draft.

 

Agree on all three points. The second game against Gold Coast is a great example of what he can bring to the table. We were woeful that day and he was the only one who really performed. Apart from the fact he kicked the winning goal (a difficult kick, particularly given his record from that spot was poor - 1 goal 6 - according to the fox stats), he kicked 3 in a low total and gut ran throughout the last quarter. His match winning goal came soon after terrific contest with 2nd and 3rd efforts on the wing (at the two minute mark of the video below) and he was knackered, sucking in the big ones just before he marked it.

As is is often the case (because he makes good decisions and doesn't turn the ball over) he was put back late in the quarter and made a match saving mark in the GC goal square.

This video gives a great example of what he gives us. He stood up when it counted, willing us to win that game and it is worth remembering our late season charge at the finals would have not got off the ground if we had lost the GC game.

 

 

Edited March 5, 20178 yr by binman

It IS strange, and as others have said, I'd like to see him play pre-season round 3.  But I'm still looking for the "Absofarkinlutely" button.

Now, I will go outside and attempt to walk and chew gum simultaneously.