Training - Monday 21st November, 2016

[beelzebub 23,382]

Glad to see the Lewis effect has already begun. Am positive that his will be a marvelous influence.

Some players will think they do all they can. He'll educate many into the understanding of what makes 'elite'

[nutbean 8,838]

5 minutes ago, old dee said:

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck chances are ..............

I'd suggest that if Lumumba is walking like a duck and quacking like a duck then there is every chance he has concussion (and more)

[daisycutter 29,695]

well concussion or worse, repeated concussion can be a nasty disability. given h is nearing the end of his career and has had 2 recent concussions serious enough to miss a lot of games, then for his future health's sake  why would you risk it and play on. it's not worth it and he doesn't want to end up as a novelty doorman at a nightclub. he has his 200 games and a premiership cup, so he really hasn't anything to prove.

[Courtney_Fish 183]

It might be an idea to delist H and rooky him.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Courtney_Fish

[old dee 23,866]

Just now, daisycutter said:

well concussion or worse, repeated concussion can be a nasty disability. given h is nearing the end of his career and has had 2 recent concussions serious enough to miss a lot of games, then for his future health's sake  why would you risk it and play on. it's not worth it and he doesn't want to end up as a novelty doorman at a nightclub. he has his 200 games and a premiership cup, so he really hasn't anything to prove.

Could not agree more dc.

 

[CBDees 3,167]

1 hour ago, DemonAndrew said:

best sense of humour in the afl: 

This picture highlights the orange in the "V"

[Moonshadow 17,676]

19 minutes ago, old dee said:

That line reads in normal speak as " we have to say this so we don't get sued for not taking care of him" .

And when was the last time we believed any FD when they are trying to find a way out.

When Clark was going through his process all we heard was he will be back when over his injuries.

Then a pay out is announced.

Am I a cynic?

Yes

I'm not calling you a cynic at all od. But am I to take from your post that we shouldn't believe what the club says? As I've said in other threads, H could be doing running, cycling, swimming, weights, etc. with the club's consent. We just don't know what shape he will be in until we see or hear further. I don't know one way or the other, but I'm not going to jump to an 'us vs him' conclusion just yet.

Wed all like to see him minimise risk, as well as turn up on the track fit and firing to go.

I'll leave it at that as this is a training thread.

[sue 9,126]

6 minutes ago, old dee said:

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck chances are ..............

But since we don't have a clear view of the aquatic beast, nor hear clearly what it is saying, the chances are we have no real idea if it's a duck, a goose or a swan.  Surely the FD should keep their options open as long as they can, and therefore issue the sort of statements which some seem to deplore.  I think they are doing the right thing.  It's too easy for people here to say 'retire immediately' based on little information.  

[old dee 23,866]

1 minute ago, Moonshadow said:

I'm not calling you a cynic at all od. But am I to take from your post that we shouldn't believe what the club says? As I've said in other threads, H could be doing running, cycling, swimming, weights, etc. with the club's consent. We just don't know what shape he will be in until we see or hear further. I don't know one way or the other, but I'm not going to jump to an 'us vs him' conclusion just yet.

Wed all like to see him minimise risk, as well as turn up on the track fit and firing to go.

I'll leave it at that as this is a training thread.

Last words Mr Shadow.

I am a cynic!

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

3 hours ago, binman said:

The Melbourne Hawks..

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

18 minutes ago, Courtney_Fish said:

No, it's not clear at all; it's the opposite. It's more likely he is hanging in there because he wants to play but someone is being responsible.

Or perhaps he's holding out for a better negotiated settlement from the club.  Who knows, but if he's still suffering from concussion this long after the event he shouldn't play anyway. 

 

[Demonised 1,355]

1 hour ago, willmoy said:

You could tell with him from Game One, to where he ran etc, not afraid to go either way to evade and kick.

That's the other advantage of being able to kick with both feet - you can work both sides of the ground without hesitating and you can move in either direction without worry. Makes for an all round player, in my book.

[pinkshark 950]

2 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

Interesting Lumumba not at training today according to MFC release. Lingering issues from his concussion earlier this season according to the release.

He's done.  

 

2 hours ago, jayceebee31 said:

Need to get Leadership group to sit him down and lay the law done....( if able to) this disruption unacceptable.H does not seem to accept club position, trying to take things into his own hands..no wonder Bucks could not or want to hold him at Colliwobbles .

yep.  

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,510]

Some very heartless pieces of advice for Lamumba on this thread.  He's a contracted player, he has suffered a workplace injury, his risks serious damage if not handled correctly - and people are trying to push him out the door.  If someone is sick, injured, unwell - a strong culture supports this person, we don't cut them loose.

Edited November 21, 2016 by TeamPlayedFine39
spelling

[old dee 23,866]

3 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Some very heartless pieces of advice for Lamumba on this thread.  He's a contracted player, he has suffered a workplace injury, his risks serious damage if not handled correctly - and people are trying to push him out the door.  If someone is sick, injured, unwell - a strong culture supports this person, we don't cut them loose.

It really helped with Clark TPF39

[Redleg 41,397]

13 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Or perhaps he's holding out for a better negotiated settlement from the club.  Who knows, but if he's still suffering from concussion this long after the event he shouldn't play anyway. 

 

Doesn't a player who retires as a result of a footy injury, get an extra payment from the AFL?

[Redleg 41,397]

8 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Some very heartless pieces of advice for Lamumba on this thread.  He's a contracted player, he has suffered a workplace injury, his risks serious damage if not handled correctly - and people are trying to push him out the door.  If someone is sick, injured, unwell - a strong culture supports this person, we don't cut them loose.

Doesn't support include concern for his physical welfare and monetary compensation and then after footy career work assistance?

We may be doing all of the above.

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

1 minute ago, Redleg said:

Doesn't a player who retires as a result of a footy injury, get an extra payment from the AFL?

If it's career ending and in the final year of their contract (but it's a while since I looked at it and it may have changed).  H has a performance based 3rd year contract.

The club will be all over it as they've faced similar situations before.  If he's not right after 5 months how can he go on?  

[pinkshark 950]

24 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

well concussion or worse, repeated concussion can be a nasty disability. given h is nearing the end of his career and has had 2 recent concussions serious enough to miss a lot of games, then for his future health's sake  why would you risk it and play on. it's not worth it and he doesn't want to end up as a novelty doorman at a nightclub. he has his 200 games and a premiership cup, so he really hasn't anything to prove.

its just the timing.  Something is clearly not right.  Makes no sense.  He could clearly be at the first day and gaurantee himself he wont get hit in the head.  But he is not there because he doesn't want to be.  Ive been a fan.  I like the guy, I like his game when he fires and I like the way he is his own man.  Fair play to him.  But its clear he does not want to play footy anymore.  Strike a line thru old mate Heritier La la la la la Lumumba.

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

10 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Some very heartless pieces of advice for Lamumba on this thread.  He's a contracted player, he has suffered a workplace injury, his risks serious damage if not handled correctly - and people are trying to push him out the door.  If someone is sick, injured, unwell - a strong culture supports this person, we don't cut them loose.

Support doesn't necessarily mean keeping him on the list.  I'm on record as being doubtful that concussion is the only issue here but either way surely he's better off not playing.

[pinkshark 950]

1 minute ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Support doesn't necessarily mean keeping him on the list.  I'm on record as being doubtful that concussion is the only issue here but either way surely he's better off not playing.

Making great sense there VP.  

[pinkshark 950]

1 hour ago, Redbeard said:

In regards to H, I played with a fella who got a couple of successive head knocks, had terrible headaches for over a year, wasn't allowed to drive and was never allowed to play again. I could totally understand if H was still feeling the efdects

Yeah but why not show up and say gday to the boys, run a lap or two.  Can we stop kidding ourselves.  He does not want to play footy.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,408]

22 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Some very heartless pieces of advice for Lamumba on this thread.  He's a contracted player, he has suffered a workplace injury, his risks serious damage if not handled correctly - and people are trying to push him out the door.  If someone is sick, injured, unwell - a strong culture supports this person, we don't cut them loose.

If he was to find himself off the playing list that doesn't necessarily equate to the club or the AFL washing their hands of him. 

Edited November 21, 2016 by Bombay Airconditioning

[Redleg 41,397]

12 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

If it's career ending and in the final year of their contract (but it's a while since I looked at it and it may have changed).  H has a performance based 3rd year contract.

The club will be all over it as they've faced similar situations before.  If he's not right after 5 months how can he go on?  

My thoughts too. Surely/possibly, to go on would be risking further injury, which could affect his post football life and career.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Stayed for around an hour and a half, they came out later than 11 and it was fairly warm so I left not long after they began a full-ground drill.

I'll leave the moment-by-moment commentary to those who are good at it, I'd rather describe the things that stood out to me during the time I was there as well as answer any questions to those who have them.

Rehab group from what I saw: Trengove, AVB, Stretch, King, Viney, T-Mac, JKH, Oliver, Kent and Hibberd. (May have missed a couple). T-Mac, JKH and Kent all did the running component with those who were due back today. (The ones who started a few weeks back were exempt from the running component from what I understand).

Everyone else was there except Lumumba as has been previously discussed.

Early observations: 

Attending training sessions is a rarity for me, but the one thing that continually surprises me when I do attend them is the sheer size of AFL players in general. As an MCC member who sits second level most weeks, it's hard to get a gauge on the size of AFL bodies compared to 'average-sized' humans like myself. Stretch for example walked past me on the boundary-line and I couldn't really believe the size of him. I'm 180 cm which is his height but he was much thicker than I thought. No doubt this isn't news to regular attendees. 

The rehab guys did their own running component, Stretch and Trengove did a few timed laps and another thing that stood out was again the difference in body shape/mechanics of those two. Stretch's lower half, especially his glutes/quads and hammies are much more developed than Trengoves and he also clearly carries less weight on his torso. Trengove on the other hand has a bulky upper body with a slightly hunched back but his lower half is much less developed, especially his glutes and calves which seem disproportionate to his upper half. Again, probably obvious to some but one can clearly see that with a body like his, it makes sense that he is so one-paced. Out of the rehab group, I'd be interested to know why Trengove, Oliver and Stretch were part of it. (If anyone knows the answer.)

Running observations: 

The running component for the guys who were due back today lasted about 5-6 minutes at what seemed like a 'as hard as you can go' intensity for the entirety of it. No surprises Tom McDonald blitzed the field and if AFL wasn't his caper, he'd be an Olympic middle-distance runner. Others to impress were Jones, and Bugg who were neck and neck most of the way, JKH (surprised me) and Spencer (also surprised me). Funnily enough, Jordan Lewis was last. But he was also the most vocal when the running finished, yelling at guys to get up off the ground and walk it out.

Having Lewis, Jones and Vince is the elder statesmen out on the track is a pretty nice thing. And along with the rest of the list, there's a definite confidence within the entire group. No longer do I shudder at certain players who in my mind shouldn't have been playing at AFL level. And the talent is insanely exciting. There's young talent everywhere, which no doubt adds to the positivity that was on display.

Standouts/player comments:

Sam Weideman, (similarly to Hogan a couple of years ago) is an imposing figure and presence. I think it's his body shape at this stage and the way he moves that excites. He just looks like a guy who is going to easily fill out his frame and with that will come further confidence. Beautiful hands and he just kept catching my eye today. Already looks close to Hogan's size.

Salem: He just looks bullet proof at the moment and is one I think could be a game-changer for us if he plays a full year in 2017. Looks like he is in really good condition and his foot-skills are just disgustingly good.

Gawn: Trains like he is a demigod. Knows he is the best ruckman in the league and looks driven to hold onto that mantle. Work-rate and intensity over the duration of the session was really impressive as well as skills and ball-handling below his knees. If he remains injury free, he'll be AA again without a doubt.

Harmes: Just a smart player in my eyes. A footballers footballer. I know people knock his disposal at times, but generally I think it's an execution problem rather than a decision making one. He moves so well and just looks so natural kicking on both feet. Will be a really handy rotating mid in a few years I reckon.

Brayshaw and Petracca: Can't wait until they reach that 100 game mark. Brayshaw looks fit, I like his left over his right foot but it's pretty handy that he is dual-sided. (Still not on Mitchell's level which is something I keep hearing).

ANB: Looks like a man on a mission, was vocal, was hard on himself and was angry at others for not "[censored] spread"(ing)! 

Garland: (For Wiseblood) - Deliberately tried to ignore him because of my propensity to criticize him. But I will say this: No left foot, constantly looks exhausted, can't see him as a best 22 player... 

Overall, the man-love and mateship between all players but particularly the young talent is pretty contagious for the group. At one stage I thought Petracca was going to kiss Hogan but it didn't happen. The positivity, intensity and overall vibe has clearly changed from sessions I've been to before and you can tell that they're super confident in each other and individually. It's an exciting time, of that I'm certain.

Any questions, feel free.

STMJ

Edited November 22, 2016 by stevethemanjordan