Winning Trade Period

[Delusional demon 82 1,197]

2 hours ago, CBDees said:

In the past, we (along with other clubs) have lost star players (such as $cully and Chip) to rival clubs for either dollars or Premiership opportunities. This year we are the only Club not to have lost a top 22 player whilst we for the first time have been approached by top 22 players (Hibberd & Lewis) from other Clubs. We may be shy of a kpf/ruckman, but anything can happen. In the light of this, the biggest surprise is Prestia seeing a future in Richmond. What was his manager thinking?

On prestia ....To quote danny devito in twins "money talks and bullsh!t walks!" 

Am stoked with how we've played our cards this trade period... imo mahoney does his best work whilst on holidays ?

Melksham, Hibberd and Lewis are just the finishing touches to now a well balanced team.... am bullish now about next season . Go dees !

 

[Lucifers Hero 37,520]

What I really liked is our trading strategy has been thought out well in advance and we stick to it.  I particularly like the players we traded in are players we targeted during the year (Bugg, Melksham, Hibberd) or players we liked during their draft year (Kennedy, McKenna) and now went for them.  It means our research is really solid.  The only exception I can think of is Lewis but its a no brainer to take a windfall like that! 

I also liked that we got in there and got our deals done rather than some clubs which waited till the end to get 'bargains'  (Ess, Coll, Carlt) or got caught up in the 'buying frenzy before the sales end' of yesterday.  Good players were being given away for peanuts in the end!!

Edited October 21, 2016 by Lucifer's Hero

[jnrmac 19,482]

 

Even though they're older, the acquisition of Lewis and Hibberd is infinitely better than last year's crop of Bugg, Kennedy and Melksham, and for a lesser cost. Rate Lewis and Hibberd as being in our best 15, whereas I wouldn't rate Bugg, Kennedy and Melksham in our best 22.

Never seen McKenna play, but the NEAFL analysis of his game by game performance is uninspiring. Would have preferred one of our late picks used for Nankervis or Vardy instead.

Draft day will be boring.

Great. About time.

[jnrmac 19,482]

 

Words dont do ANY justice...

Our draft to date is effectively :

 Oliver

Weideman 

Hibberd

Lewis

McKenna 

Maynard 

Smith

It would be an insult to the players and pointless anyway doing a best 22. We have serious depth, players...this doesn't do justice. 

This is the MELBOURNE FOOTBALL CLUB AND WE ARE ABOUT TO BE A POWERHOUSE ONCE AGAIN! !

 

 

Not sure how you can say Oliver is this year's crop.

[juzzk1d 1,354]

We have done very well this trade period. I've read a few people post in forums and some journalists say our only downfall was that we will be drafting quite late in the draft, however that was our least priority moving forward.

Our list is one of the brightest in the competition in terms of youth. We have that many quality young players and our midfield depth is unbelievably deep. You just have to look at the result of the Casey Scorpions and how we excelled into the grand final this year. Players who would have been walk-up starters a few years ago are playing in our VFL team. This is a very important sign for any successful club moving forward.

The missing piece for our team were cool-calm experienced AFL players to help our young kids close out games. You always wonder how teams like Geelong, Hawthorn, Bulldogs etc close out games and always seem to try and find a way to either fight back or hold out leads. This comes down to their more senior and experienced players that we lacked.

In order to make the finals next year and beyond we needed to fill that void. With the addition of Lewis & Hibberd, we have accelerated our push to finals drastically. And with the injection of Melksham into our team, this will only provide even more depth and experience to our young squad. 

Our goal next year is to make finals.  After this trade period, I am more than confident we have made this objective more realistic.

[daisycutter 28,722]

 

In the past, we (along with other clubs) have lost star players (such as $cully and Chip) to rival clubs for either dollars or Premiership opportunities. This year we are the only Club not to have lost a top 22 player whilst we for the first time have been approached by top 22 players (Hibberd & Lewis) from other Clubs. We may be shy of a kpf/ruckman, but anything can happen. In the light of this, the biggest surprise is Prestia seeing a future in Richmond. What was his manager thinking?

$$s obviously. (as was dion i suspect)

[The Reverend 1,718]

 

In the past, we (along with other clubs) have lost star players (such as $cully and Chip) to rival clubs for either dollars or Premiership opportunities. This year we are the only Club not to have lost a top 22 player whilst we for the first time have been approached by top 22 players (Hibberd & Lewis) from other Clubs. We may be shy of a kpf/ruckman, but anything can happen. In the light of this, the biggest surprise is Prestia seeing a future in Richmond. What was his manager thinking?

I suspect he thought this was what Dion deserved. 

[Skuit 9,382]

When was the last time we had a second-round selection (outside of JV)? Dawes, Vince, Frost, Lumumba, Hibberd . . . I think someone at the club has determined that the lottery starts after pick 10 and that there will be little difference in strike-rates between picks 20 and 60. 

[Copuchas 756]

Barrett cops at least his fair share of flack on DL but I thought his observation in today's Sliding Doors was a good one:

you intend to rough up Melbourne players next season ...

... make sure you go your hardest. We reckon they might like it. Viney always has. And now he's got Lewis to back him up. And Hibberd. And Melksham.

And Vince, Jones and Kent augment those named with Oliver set to break in to the ranks in 2017.  Intimidation should be a thing of the past.

Edited October 21, 2016 by Copuchas
typo

[Gator 16,921]

I'll try and not let bias reign supreme, but imo we had as good a trade period as any club.

We went into the trade period with no first rounder.  The only way to get a first rounder would have been to trade a required player, so penalising us in any arbitrary rating system for not improving our draft position is questionable.  Is there a player currently on our list worth trading for a second round pick ?  Remembering they have to be worth a second round pick in the first place.

We retained every player we required, plus we traded for two players who are immediately top 10 players at the club (one top 5).

What other club traded in at least two top 10 players without losing at least one ?

Richmond arguably got two in, but they lost a top 5 player.  Hawthorn got two in, but lost two (and where does Hill fit).

Some think the Saints did well, but they traded for 3 players who weren't even in their side's best 22 by year's end.

Freo did well, but Kersten and Hamling were fringe in their respective teams and McCarthy has issues.  Hill is a great get.

I don't think any club did better than Melbourne when one considers we went into the draft with pick 29 as first cab off the rank.

 

Edited October 21, 2016 by ProDee

[Redleg 38,437]

 

I'll try and not let bias reign supreme, but imo we had as good a draft as any club.

We went into the trade period with no first rounder.  The only way to get a first rounder would have been to trade a required player, so penalising us in any arbitrary rating system for not improving our draft position is questionable.  Is there a player currently on our list worth trading for a second round pick ?  Remembering they have to be worth a second round pick in the first place.

We retained every player we required, plus we traded for two players who are immediately top 10 players at the club and one who's top 5.

What other club didn't lose one top 10 player and traded in at least two ?

Richmond arguably got two in, but they lost a top 5 player.  Hawthorn got two in, but lost two (and where does Hill fit).

Some think the Saints did well, but they traded for 3 players who weren't even in their side's best 22 by year's end.

Freo did well, but Kersten and Hamling were fringe in their respective teams and McCarthy has issues.  Hill is a great get.

I don't think any club did better than Melbourne when one considers we went into the draft with pick 29 as first cab off the rank.

 

Agree. Change the word "draft" to "trade period" in your opening line and you nailed it.

 

 

[old55 21,843]

Saints trade way over-rated.  Steele, Koby Stevens and Brown is Melksham, Bugg, Kennedy material to me.  Those 3 players they picked up are not best 22 at a top 4 club.

Their "pick coup" with Hawthorn is being over-rated too, they do have an extra 1st next year but they don't have one this year, it's a good deal but it's not earth-shattering.

I'm looking forward to giving them a mother of a hiding next year.

Edited October 21, 2016 by Fifty-5

[hemingway 7,608]

 

Barrett cops at least his fair share of flack on DL but I thought his observation in today's Sliding Doors was a good one:

you intend to rough up Melbourne players next season ...

... make sure you go your hardest. We reckon they might like it. Viney always has. And now he's got Lewis to back him up. And Hibberd. And Melksham.

And Vince, Jones and Kent augment those named with Oliver set to break in to the ranks in 2017.  Intimidation should be a thing of the past.

will not longer be branded as "soft". we have some really tough hard nuts.

mark neeld's comments came a few years to soon, but we are going to be one hell of a tough unit.

[DeeSpencer 23,638]

 

Saints trade way over-rated.  Steele, Koby Stevens and Brown is Melksham, Bugg, Kennedy material to me.  Those 3 players they picked up are not best 22 at a top 4 club.

Their "pick coup" with Hawthorn is being over-rated too, they do have an extra 1st next year but they don't have one this year, it's a good deal but it's not earth-shattering.

I'm looking forward to giving them a mother of a hiding next year.

Disagree on Steele, think he will hold his own in any side with a bit more improvement, just needs to be in the midfield more when he had to play forward at GWS. Once he gets midfield time in a lesser side he can improve and hold that spot in a top side. For the value I'd give him a big tick.

Agree on Stevens and Brown, depth players to fill a need, handy ones though, so a slight tick for them.

Disagree on the pick deal. Remember they got 23 and 36 as well as the future first. That means they replace one top pick with 2 solid ones this year and then next year they can chase the star. Drafting your own stars is the best way but there's no guarantee of a star with pick 10. Now they can draft 2 quality players this year and go hard for a trade next year. If the trade for a senior player doesn't work then they can combine the 2 first picks for a higher one.

[monoccular 16,595]

 

Remains to be seen how strong this year's draft is, compared to next year's.

We obviously believe that next year's is better, but some clubs have sold out of next year's draft, believing this year is the "super draft".

What do D'landers think? Like many others, I know nothing about the two drafts and their comparative merits.

Strong drafts, weak drafts.......surely the outcome depends on how the newbies fit in to their new club and how they are developed, and what senior role models they have in their new club  

 

especially when you think of 4 years ago when we gave up pick 20 for Dawes and the next year pick 12 for Clarke

dark, dark days

 

 

To be completely fair I liked both those trades at the time.

I suspect many here were rather excited at the time, particularly re Clarke, and excitement continued when he came out firing  

As far as I can recall they never played in the same game together due to their respective injuries   

One never can tell but had they both been injury free, who knows where we could have been?

 

In the past, we (along with other clubs) have lost star players (such as $cully and Chip) to rival clubs for either dollars or Premiership opportunities. This year we are the only Club not to have lost a top 22 player whilst we for the first time have been approached by top 22 players (Hibberd & Lewis) from other Clubs. We may be shy of a kpf/ruckman, but anything can happen. In the light of this, the biggest surprise is Prestia seeing a future in Richmond. What was his manager thinking?

Certainly a big cultural change re not losing top 22s, and having good players coming to us.

What was Prestia's manager thinking? $$$$$.  What, was Prestia thinking?

Edited October 21, 2016 by monoccular

[old55 21,843]

 

Disagree on Steele, think he will hold his own in any side with a bit more improvement, just needs to be in the midfield more when he had to play forward at GWS. Once he gets midfield time in a lesser side he can improve and hold that spot in a top side. For the value I'd give him a big tick.

Agree on Stevens and Brown, depth players to fill a need, handy ones though, so a slight tick for them.

Disagree on the pick deal. Remember they got 23 and 36 as well as the future first. That means they replace one top pick with 2 solid ones this year and then next year they can chase the star. Drafting your own stars is the best way but there's no guarantee of a star with pick 10. Now they can draft 2 quality players this year and go hard for a trade next year. If the trade for a senior player doesn't work then they can combine the 2 first picks for a higher one.

Would Steele get a game in our midfield?   I reckon he'd struggle.

23 & 36 woo-hoo!!!  It's nice but not world beating.  And it depends where Hawthorn finishes next year, if they make the eight then 10 is down-graded - they have to finish lower than 9th for this part to be a win.

[george_on_the_outer 7,099]

There are no winners or losers at Trade period.!

The trades that get done have 2 parties involved and both are agreeable to make the deal.  Who is the loser? Who is the winner?  Neither.......today.

The unknowns are whether these trades are ultimately successful on the playing field next year.

IF O'Meara plays 22 games then Hawthorn are a winner.  If he can't get on the park then they are a loser.  Richmond found that out last year with Yarran.

The real point of interest are those clubs that don't trade.  Port Adelaide being the standout this year.  Unable to offload 2 good players in Lobbe and Hartlett, when other teams are throwing around multiple draft picks in exchange for meagre offerings.  Even their salaries are a negotiable item, but Port were unable to do it.  Why weren't Port involved in the Gibbs trade instead of Adelaide solely? 

Bring on season 2017......so we can see the proof of the pudding.......

[DeeSpencer 23,638]

 

Would Steele get a game in our midfield?   I reckon he'd struggle.

23 & 36 woo-hoo!!!  It's nice but not world beating.  And it depends where Hawthorn finishes next year, if they make the eight then 10 is down-graded - they have to finish lower than 9th for this part to be a win.

Probably not but our inside midfield is very strong - if the kids come on -  but we are weaker in other spots. The saints needed a good big bodied midfield prospect and they got one. 

As long as the Hawks miss the top 4 it's a fantastic result and even if they do it's not a bad result.

[old55 21,843]

 

Probably not but our inside midfield is very strong - if the kids come on -  but we are weaker in other spots. The saints needed a good big bodied midfield prospect and they got one. 

As long as the Hawks miss the top 4 it's a fantastic result and even if they do it's not a bad result.

If the Hawks finish 5th again next year the Saints go back from 10 to 14 a year later that's -234 points.

23 + 36 is worth 1317. Minus 234 = 1083 = Pick 16 is their bonus - you have a different definition of "fantastic" from me

Edited October 21, 2016 by Fifty-5

[DeeSpencer 23,638]

 

If the Hawks finish 5th again next year the Saints go back from 10 to 14 a year later that's -234 points.

23 + 36 is worth 1317. Minus 234 = 1083 = Pick 16 is their bonus - you have a different definition of "fantastic" from me

If we got a pick 16 for free I'd be jumping for joy. Purely on pick for pick isn't that as good as you'll ever see?

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

 

I'll try and not let bias reign supreme, but imo we had as good a trade period as any club.

We went into the trade period with no first rounder.  The only way to get a first rounder would have been to trade a required player, so penalising us in any arbitrary rating system for not improving our draft position is questionable.  Is there a player currently on our list worth trading for a second round pick ?  Remembering they have to be worth a second round pick in the first place.

We retained every player we required, plus we traded for two players who are immediately top 10 players at the club and one who's top 5.

What other club didn't lose one top 10 player and traded in at least two ?

Richmond arguably got two in, but they lost a top 5 player.  Hawthorn got two in, but lost two (and where does Hill fit).

Some think the Saints did well, but they traded for 3 players who weren't even in their side's best 22 by year's end.

Freo did well, but Kersten and Hamling were fringe in their respective teams and McCarthy has issues.  Hill is a great get.

I don't think any club did better than Melbourne when one considers we went into the draft with pick 29 as first cab off the rank.

 

Exactly. The success of a trade period can only really be measured in terms of what a particular club is seeking to achieve and what they have to trade with other clubs (i.e. players and/or draft picks).

In this regard, our main priority was ring-fencing our own list in terms of the required players already on it .Tick this box - we achieved this prior to the trade period. Consequently, we had no valuable players that we were prepared to lose.

And in terms of draft picks, we entered the draft period with a packet of stale Cheezels. We'd spent our entire draft inventory on super talented youngsters over several drafts previously. And we're pleased with the way this has turned out. In short, we have a list that we want to preserve (i.e. no players to trade) and no high end draft picks with which to attract top tier players from other clubs. In short, we had nudda.

So - we enter the draft with pick 29 only - a pick of marginal value. And with that, we take out Jordan Lewis and Michael Hibberd, both experienced and super talented/valuable players who waltz into our best 22.

That is simply fantastic 'trading' every day of the week.

Sure, we had a bit of luck, but I'll take that.

In fact, I'm bloody pumped. This club is competent now. Really competent.

And, hopefully, about to be really potent too!

[Gator 16,921]

 

Exactly. The success of a trade period can only really be measured in terms of what a particular club is seeking to achieve and what they have to trade with other clubs (i.e. players and/or draft picks).

Yep.

How often does a club trade in the calibre of two top 10 players and not lose one required player or a first round draft pick ?

When and who was the last to do this ?

[old55 21,843]

 

If we got a pick 16 for free I'd be jumping for joy. Purely on pick for pick isn't that as good as you'll ever see?

I think Mahoney did a better deal for us last year to get both Oliver and Weideman through the door and now with a year's development.

Edited October 21, 2016 by Fifty-5

[DeeSpencer 23,638]

 

I think Mahoney did a better deal for us last year to get both Oliver and Weideman through the door and now with a year's development.

Maybe.
But we gave up 6, (this years) 8, 29 
For: 3, 10 and 43.

There's no points system win there and it relied upon us drafting well. Unless there's a gun available at pick 10 this year that the Saints were going to grab they'll come out ahead with good solid drafting at 23 and 36 and an exciting and well timed opportunity next year to make a big move.

[HulkHogan 69]

Anybody else think we should have a fair dinkum crack at Michael Barlow as a delisted free agent in November?