THE BOMBERS' DOPING SAGA - THE FAT LADY SINGS

[Lucifers Hero 39,758]

2 hours ago, Ted Fidge said:

This decision should be easy and should have been made months ago.

What hold has Jobby got on Gil? Why is Gil dithering? What private commitment has Gil made to Jobby that requires time for Gil to work his deal making magic and thereby extract himself from embarrassment?

It seems that Gil is trying to avoid a situation where Jobby runs to Robbo saying "Gil promised me I could keep it."

Gil washed his hands of it six months ago: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/essendon/afl-boss-gillon-mclachlan-says-jobe-watsons-2012-brownlow-presents-afl-commission-with-its-most-difficult-decision-ever/news-story/f31c498b2bc4d7546ac6228df0f7a30c

Gil says: “I’ve made it clear to a number of people that I would not sit on that decision. Hopefully no one will think I’m trying to shirk that dreadful responsibility, but because to perform my function as the CEO in the lead-up and during I need to have conversations that would look like I wouldn’t necessarily come in with clean hands.”

What else would we think!  He is just totally incapable of making a decision and a strong need to be the 'good guy' and has hand balled it to the Commission.  No respect at all for him.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Lucifer's Hero

[Chris 2,892]

12 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

I still don't agree, they were all blinded or maybe that is deafened by the Golden Child who had returned to take them to ptemiership glory. They should have questioned him more? If not questioning is the  'crime' then so be it

And how Reid has managed to escape all this will always be beyond me

The rest was just a shambles by everybody and now politically they are just tidying it up so it can be confined to  history, like the tanking we, Carlton and a few others did

That is the crux of the issue Saty. If the players had of followed their training and done the checks they are trained to do, instead of trusting the people you are trained not to with regard to PED's, then none of this would have happened. Others are to blame but a big chunk of that falls on the players. ASADA also didn't handle this badly, they folloed their procedures and had to deal with the AFL and EFC leaking every thing under the sun and trying to make life difficult for them. Once they stopped talking to the AFL the leaks stopped and the process moved on. 

[Allus Monk 568]

Here's another nice little sideline. WADA rules also require that any games played whilst effectively under a "provisional suspension" do not count. As the WADA ban was backdated to the start of 2015 (effectively giving the players a 12 month "discount"), all games played in 2015 will now no longer be included in players' games tally,

which means,

the cheating sniper Dustbin Fletcher goes under 400 games played!

Edited October 13, 2016 by Allus Monk

[old dee 23,788]

26 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

there are other over-riding rules that can come into play, such as those that come with signing on to the wada code which call for the stripping of awards and prizes pertaining to the period of transgression. of course wada leave that up to the ruling body but for the afl to ignore that would bring into question the afl's hypocrisy and right to claim wada compliancy. it's is only "hard" if you refuse to stand on principle and continuously look for excuses to prevaricate and do nothing.

That covers it dc. They don't want to.

[old dee 23,788]

16 minutes ago, Allus Monk said:

Here's another nice little sideline. WADA rules also require that any games played whilst effectively under a "provisional suspension" do not count. As the WADA ban was backdated to the start of 2015 (effectively giving the players a 12 month "discount"), all games played in 2015 will now no longer be included in players' games tally,

which means,

the cheating sniper Dustbin Fletcher goes under 400 games played!

Good luck with getting the AFL to change that AM.

[Satyriconhome 10,872]

31 minutes ago, Chris said:

That is the crux of the issue Saty. If the players had of followed their training and done the checks they are trained to do, instead of trusting the people you are trained not to with regard to PED's, then none of this would have happened. Others are to blame but a big chunk of that falls on the players. ASADA also didn't handle this badly, they folloed their procedures and had to deal with the AFL and EFC leaking every thing under the sun and trying to make life difficult for them. Once they stopped talking to the AFL the leaks stopped and the process moved on. 

I agree with you to a point, but you have young guys entering an environment which is more controlled than te military, some of te guys on here who serve (d) coud attest to that and if they don't follow or do what they are told there are consequences

They are told who to associate with Swan, King, Martin

They are told how to behave in public Terlich/Georgiou

They are told what to and not to drink, Crossy had trouble with the Paleo Diet coz he was conditioned that some of the foods in the diet were no good for you

Etc etc

Yes they are advised on drugs but if you are assured everything is kosher, the club doctor doesn't have a problem, and it is not compulsory to participate ie Zahka then why 'rock the boat'

It has been my opinion since day 1 that the players have been guilty of nothing more than being too naive and stupid in trusting and are the sscapegoats, nobody is going to convince me otherwise

Edited October 13, 2016 by Satyriconhome

[Chris 2,892]

2 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

I agree with you to a point, but you have young guys entering an environment which is more controlled than te military, some of te guys on here who serve (d) coud attest to that and if they don't follow or do what they are told there are consequences

They are told who to associate with Swan, King, Martin

They are told how to behave in public Terlich/Georgiou

They are told what to and not to drink, Crossy had trouble with the Paleo Diet coz he was conditioned that some of the foods in the diet were no good for you

Etc etc

Yes they are advised on drugs but if you are assured everything is kosher, the club doctor doesn't have a problem, and it is not compulsory to participate ie Zahka then why 'rock the boat'

It has been my opinion since day 1 that the players have been guilty of nothing more than being too naive and stupid in trusting and are the sscapegoats, nobody is going to convince me otherwise

Yet we expect 12 year gymnasts to not do as the coach says or there are the same consequences, included the loss of an Olympic medal in Sydney. These are all adults, yes there is pressure but if you do your check and find it is banned then the club and your team mates would either be happy you found out so they could stop it, or they could continue on their happy way complicit in giving players banned substances.

There is no excuse and no leeway. I don't care about the culture as if this is stopping the players taking responsibility then it is a culture that must be changed.

[ManDee 7,134]

35 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

I agree with you to a point, but you have young guys entering an environment which is more controlled than te military, some of te guys on here who serve (d) coud attest to that and if they don't follow or do what they are told there are consequences

They are told who to associate with Swan, King, Martin

They are told how to behave in public Terlich/Georgiou

They are told what to and not to drink, Crossy had trouble with the Paleo Diet coz he was conditioned that some of the foods in the diet were no good for you

Etc etc

Yes they are advised on drugs but if you are assured everything is kosher, the club doctor doesn't have a problem, and it is not compulsory to participate ie Zahka then why 'rock the boat'

It has been my opinion since day 1 that the players have been guilty of nothing more than being too naive and stupid in trusting and are the sscapegoats, nobody is going to convince me otherwise

Saty, they lied to ASADA on multiple occasions. All of them lied. How can anyone suggest that they were not complicit?

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

2 minutes ago, ManDee said:

Saty, they lied to ASADA on multiple occasions. All of them lied. How can anyone suggest that they were not complicit?

What was the lie?  How did the lie manifest itself on multiple occasions?

 

[Satyriconhome 10,872]

1 minute ago, ManDee said:

Saty, they lied to ASADA on multiple occasions. All of them lied. How can anyone suggest that they were not complicit?

It is being reported they lied, where you there?  All depends on what they were asked and how, as I said I have very little respect for any of the organisations involved because of their past records, inconsistency and political involvement

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Politics?  A Federal Government on the nose in the electorate, which was desperate to get back some political capital.  What better way of doing it than by portraying yourselves as the white knights being tough on drugs in sport?

 

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=blackest+day+in+australian+sport&spfreload=10

[ManDee 7,134]

11 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

It is being reported they lied, where you there?  All depends on what they were asked and how, as I said I have very little respect for any of the organisations involved because of their past records, inconsistency and political involvement

 

ASADA chief executive Ben McDevitt slammed the players for failing to know better and for being “complicit in a culture of secrecy and concealment”.

“This unfortunate episode has chronicled the most devastating self-inflicted injury by a sporting club in Australian history,” he said.

“The players had received anti-doping education through the AFL and ASADA, and were well aware that they are personally responsible for all substances that entered their body.

“Unfortunately, despite their education, they agreed to be injected with a number of substances they had little knowledge of, made no enquiries about the substance and kept the injections from their team doctor and ASADA.

“Of 30 ASADA testing missions during the period in question, none of the 18 players tested declared the injections, despite being asked each time whether they had taken any supplements.

“At best, the players did not ask the questions, or the people, they should have. At worst, they were complicit in a culture of secrecy and concealment.”

The CAS decision outlined the failure of the Bombers involved to disclose key pieces of information to investigators, including what “supplements” they believed they had been administered and when and the presence of Stephen Dank at away matches.

Edit:- attribution  - http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/essendon/essendon-drugs-saga-players-only-have-themselves-to-blame-says-asada-chief/news-story/33ab716e80b0ab7de1f37572a68bfb46

 

Edited October 13, 2016 by ManDee

[daisycutter 29,613]

6 minutes ago, iv'a worn smith said:

Politics?  A Federal Government on the nose in the electorate, which was desperate to get back some political capital.  What better way of doing it than by portraying yourselves as the white knights being tough on drugs in sport?

 

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=blackest+day+in+australian+sport&spfreload=10

relevance? they cheated or they didn't. they have been found guilty. of which i am satisfied. canberra had nothing to do with their guilt. 

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Gil washed his hands of it six months ago: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/essendon/afl-boss-gillon-mclachlan-says-jobe-watsons-2012-brownlow-presents-afl-commission-with-its-most-difficult-decision-ever/news-story/f31c498b2bc4d7546ac6228df0f7a30c

Gil says: “I’ve made it clear to a number of people that I would not sit on that decision. Hopefully no one will think I’m trying to shirk that dreadful responsibility, but because to perform my function as the CEO in the lead-up and during I need to have conversations that would look like I wouldn’t necessarily come in with clean hands.”

What else would we think!  He is just totally incapable of making a decision and a strong need to be the 'good guy' and has hand balled it to the Commission.  No respect at all for him.

Gill is as useless as Malcolm Turnbull. 

What a scam job...

[old dee 23,788]

6 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Gill is as useless as Malcolm Turnbull. 

What a scam job...

I am no fan of Gil SWYL but that is a giant put down.

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

Just now, old dee said:

I am no fan of Gil SWYL but that is a giant put down.

It's true though. Neither of them are a leaders bootlace. 

The Liberals voted against themselves in Parliament today....

the sham continues

[The Reverend 1,736]

On 10/12/2016 at 7:00 AM, Abe said:

No logically way he can keep the medal,

The Brownlow is awarded to the FAIREST and best player in 2012, the same year Jobe now has been found guilty of cheating. it's disgusting that there is even a conversation about this. 

The AFL needs to realise they can't play both sides, by looking after EFC the way they have they're making themselves looks corrupt as all hell very publicly and losing favour with the other 17 clubs who didn't cheat. 

That is the most amazing piece of drivel I've read in a long time. I'm an English teacher teaching in Beijing. I'm not sure the kids I'm teaching here could write something as poorly thought out and poorly constructed. Is there a shred of evidence or even common sense in what he's saying? I can't find it. Take his medal and shove it up Robbo's fat clacker.

[Dees2014 2,377]

Frankly, this outcome was always going to happen. The squalking from Essendon reminds me of the self justification nonsense from Donald Trump. Both have nowhere to go except into long term mediocracy. The verdict is in. They have no choice but to try and manage the outcomes. 

I understand the EFC are budgeting for $17m in compensation. I would suggest they should triple that and more once add-on costs are taken into account, especially if they also pay the settlements which will be directed at Hird and some of their Directors which no doubt they will be silly enough to do.

This still has several years to run, but I am sure they will do everything they can to cover the consequences up.

For us, the outcome is a just one, and the one many of us have advocated. Justice has been done. 

Time to move on. 

[sue 9,102]

1 hour ago, Satyriconhome said:

....

I.t has been my opinion since day 1 that the players have been guilty of nothing more than being too naive and stupid in trusting and are the sscapegoats, nobody is going to convince me otherwise

That's one thing we agree on at least.  But let me push you a little.  Do you not at least think that the older more experienced players ("leaders") are more at fault than the junior ones.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,754]

44 minutes ago, ManDee said:

 

ASADA chief executive Ben McDevitt slammed the players for failing to know better and for being “complicit in a culture of secrecy and concealment”.

“This unfortunate episode has chronicled the most devastating self-inflicted injury by a sporting club in Australian history,” he said.

“The players had received anti-doping education through the AFL and ASADA, and were well aware that they are personally responsible for all substances that entered their body.

“Unfortunately, despite their education, they agreed to be injected with a number of substances they had little knowledge of, made no enquiries about the substance and kept the injections from their team doctor and ASADA.

“Of 30 ASADA testing missions during the period in question, none of the 18 players tested declared the injections, despite being asked each time whether they had taken any supplements.

“At best, the players did not ask the questions, or the people, they should have. At worst, they were complicit in a culture of secrecy and concealment.”

The CAS decision outlined the failure of the Bombers involved to disclose key pieces of information to investigators, including what “supplements” they believed they had been administered and when and the presence of Stephen Dank at away matches.

Edit:- attribution  - http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/essendon/essendon-drugs-saga-players-only-have-themselves-to-blame-says-asada-chief/news-story/33ab716e80b0ab7de1f37572a68bfb46

 

It's a peripheral point, but what exactly was the relevance of failing to disclose "the presence of Stephen Dank at away matches"?

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

2 hours ago, ManDee said:

I agree completely with the sentiment OD but the AFL rules re the Brownlow (wikipedia not the real rules- they are missing?) and it appears the eligibility is referenced to AFL tribunal bans during the home & away season exclusively. 

Legally the AFL may have a problem, I would think a shame campaign against Jobe may be required.

 

wikipedia - The fairest component of the medal is achieved by making ineligible any player who is suspended by the AFL Tribunal during the home-and-away season. An ineligible player cannot win, place or be classified in the final Brownlow Medal rankings, regardless of the number of votes he has received.

 

Well, there's the AFL's out. Jobe's suspension was imposed by WADA, not the AFL Tribunal. Jobe therefore technically was never suspended by the AFL Tribunal and thus technically can keep his medal.

Sigh.

[Chris 2,892]

8 minutes ago, Choke said:

 

Well, there's the AFL's out. Jobe's suspension was imposed by WADA, not the AFL Tribunal. Jobe therefore technically was never suspended by the AFL Tribunal and thus technically can keep his medal.

Sigh.

I think you may have just written the speech for Dill!

[ManDee 7,134]

27 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

It's a peripheral point, but what exactly was the relevance of failing to disclose "the presence of Stephen Dank at away matches"?

I think  (I have no knowledge on this) that the players may have lied by saying Dank was not at away matches, when perhaps he was. 

[Satyriconhome 10,872]

36 minutes ago, sue said:

That's one thing we agree on at least.  But let me push you a little.  Do you not at least think that the older more experienced players ("leaders") are more at fault than the junior ones.

Yes the leaders should have   but as for the ASADA statement, were they asked are you taking supplements or illegal supplements, are you being injected with anything, of course the answer would be yes to supplements all players take supplements of some sort, legal ones that is, they have to for their body to withstand the training, so for ASADA to say they answered No is [censored]   what exactly were they asked?

 

 

Edited October 13, 2016 by Satyriconhome

[sue 9,102]

8 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Yes the leaders should have   but as for the ASADA statement, were they asked are you taking supplements or illegal supplements, are you being injected with anything, of course the answer would be yes to supplements all players take supplements of some sort, legal ones that is, they have to for their body to withstand the training, so for ASADA to say they answered No is [censored]   what exactly were they asked?

 

 

So at least some of the players were not imply 'naive' and 'too trusting'.  good.

As I understand it, they are asked to list any supplements they have taken, not just did you or didn't you.  If you list some but omit others for which there is evidence, I think it is very reasonable to assume there is something fishy going on with the omitted ones  - to say the least.