1 minute ago, Moonshadow said:

The less time Watts spends in the ruck the better. 

Why, with his basketball skills he provides a bit of a challenge to the other teams part time ruckman.

 

6 minutes ago, mo64 said:

I don't care if Watts enjoys playing in the ruck, because he's not a long term solution.

 

I brought up the names of Nankervis and Smith as being examples of players who have come off rookie lists in their early 20's. Naismith is another. Not necessarily saying that they would want to come to us, but there are young ruckmen out there with more upside than Spencer. Mitch King is probably another example.

Ok what is the upside that the two names you have quoted have as opposed to Spencer?

Just now, mo64 said:

I brought up the names of Nankervis and Smith as being examples of players who have come off rookie lists in their early 20's. Naismith is another. Not necessarily saying that they would want to come to us, but there are young ruckmen out there with more upside than Spencer. Mitch King is probably another example.

Yes, they're out there, but are they available to us?  If they're not players we are likely to able to trade in, then there's no point discussing them.  Mitch King is a crazy example, he's already on our list and clearly isn't a viable backup to Max yet.  You may have noticed, he and Spencer are *already* both on the list.

Gawn's season this year will have been a big fat red flag for any ruckman with aspirations to become a senior AFL ruckman, which is surely all of them.  

Nobody in favour of giving Spencer the flick has given a viable alternative yet for mine.  

Just spoke to my Swans following mate about Toby Nankervis.

- solid ruckman

- good mark 

- decent kick

- not real quick

- not overly mobile

- needs to work on tank, having said that has been in the system for a few years.

Edited September 4, 20168 yr by Bombay Airconditioning

23 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

I think you are forgetting that Watts has been taking turns in the ruck, he actually enjoys it, I asked him, with a bit more work during the pre season on the craft, he could provide a handy backup to either Gawn or Spencer

Do you think Watts is going to tell a supporter he doesn't enjoy playing in the ruck? 

Edited September 4, 20168 yr by Ethan Tremblay

9 minutes ago, Nasher said:

I have to admit I'd never heard of him until following the Casey feed yesterday.  Pretty interesting selection in a final with an already pretty tall Casey side - must have shown something.  Listed as 203cm and 100kg so he's probably physically ready.  Any idea why he'd been playing in the dev league for the bulk of the season?

McInerney was quite good in the early preseason games at Casey but he was behind the two Kings and then Spencer came back early and the Scorps had no room for him with Jake & Max King (after Mitch's injury) and Pedo and Declan Keilty also helping out. McInerney got a game (maybe 2) in mid season but eventually, when Max King wasn't producing, he and Oscar basically changed places and the latter looks set to play out the finals in the Casey seniors now. 

I think McInerney was also instrumental in the Development League's rapid improvement in the second half of the year. They've certainly gone downhill quickly in his absence.

1 minute ago, Nasher said:

Yes, they're out there, but are they available to us?  If they're not players we are likely to able to trade in, then there's no point discussing them.  Mitch King is a crazy example, he's already on our list and clearly isn't a viable backup to Max yet.  You may have noticed, he and Spencer are *already* both on the list.

Gawn's season this year will have been a big fat red flag for any ruckman with aspirations to become a senior AFL ruckman, which is surely all of them.  

Nobody in favour of giving Spencer the flick has given a viable alternative yet for mine.  

You are misinterpreting what I'm saying. Your original response was "You say that as if it's easy". I'm saying that there are young untried ruckmen out there with more upside than Spencer, and I gave you examples of some who have been rookied recently. 

Just now, Satyriconhome said:

Why, with his basketball skills he provides a bit of a challenge to the other teams part time ruckman.

 

Tracc is a better basketball er than Watts. Following you logic he should be our 2nd ruck.

Watts is a highly valuable forward hitting his peak who should not be used in the ruck where big guys crash their bodies at each other.

The ruck position isn't about "a bit of a challenge" chap.

6 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Tracc is a better basketball er than Watts. Following you logic he should be our 2nd ruck.

Watts is a highly valuable forward hitting his peak who should not be used in the ruck where big guys crash their bodies at each other.

The ruck position isn't about "a bit of a challenge" chap.

Watts is no longer a young skinny guy, he weighs in at about 98kg now, also the second ruck in a team are usually the same, I personally like when he goes through the ruck coz he has the hands and kicking skills if he gets a clean ball in his hands

 

7 minutes ago, mo64 said:

You are misinterpreting what I'm saying. Your original response was "You say that as if it's easy". I'm saying that there are young untried ruckmen out there with more upside than Spencer, and I gave you examples of some who have been rookied recently. 

What upside, if they are untried? Is it age? They are taller? What?

Edited September 4, 20168 yr by Satyriconhome

11 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Do you think Watts is going to tell a supporter he doesn't enjoy playing in the ruck? 

I made a point of asking him specifically, he usually gives honest answers if you ask him properly

2 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

I made a point of asking him specifically, he usually gives honest answers if you ask him properly

 

 

21 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

The less time Watts spends in the ruck the better. 

Exactly. Rather him fit and mobile in the forward line than getting smashed up at ruck contests.

Sick of hearing about basketball skills with a link to AFL especially the peripheral because it's absolute garbage. For every player like a Pendles that apparently sees things in slow motion there's 5 players equally as good if not better that didn't play basketball as a junior. Both games are 360 degree but if anything AFL is played more like that, both games are often played in one half of the ground court but you can make the transition a hell of a lot easier in basketball due to the size of the court plus footy has more players and you can get tackled from all angles.

Crikey, it would be a bit rough to ditch Spencer!  As a 2016 FA he could have gone to a club of his choice but re-signed for 2017.  Great loyalty without much chance of AFL game time.

A good article on ruckmen:  http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-07-15/rival-clubs-circling-big-swan-toby-nankervis  Nankervis seems to be at the top of everyone's  wish list.  Longmire's comments are interesting:  "I don't think you can have too many ruckmen on your list. It's such a tough job to do throughout the course of the season and you need to have a few...It's proven year after year that you need to have a number of ruckmen that can play senior footy and a couple developing in your reserves..." 

That suggests 4 ruckman on the list.  We are a long, long way short of that.  We have Gawn, Spencer, Mitch King (a 19yo with ACL injury and no bulk), and Max King (who can't make it into the Casey team).  So we really only have 2 ruckman for the next 2 or 3 years at least.  And Spencer may go next year as an FA.  Leaving us with 1 AFL ruckman and 1 Reserves ruckman going into 2018.

So, I do not think it is Spencer or another recruit.  I think it is Spencer and another. 

23 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Do you think Watts is going to tell a supporter he doesn't enjoy playing in the ruck? 

He looks all at sea in the ruck contest, as would be expected, but is another mid if the ball hits the ground. 

I struggle to see why you would trade Spencil unless he asked to be traded. We re-signed him for another year in May this year and the way the club operates in list management these days does not make me think that he is being offered up.

Sure we may get an offer from another club but it would have to be a bloody great deal as we need to have a back up. Trading in a mature rookie that needs to still take time to learn our play and build connections to the mid field when you have one who knows all that and whom when he plays gives his all. 

i also don't subscribe to the view we need a first round pick to find talent.

18 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Watts is no longer a young skinny guy, he weighs in at about 98kg now, also the second ruck in a team are usually the same, I personally like when he goes through the ruck coz he has the hands and kicking skills if he gets a clean ball in his hands

 

Regardless of what you think Watts weighs, he certainly doesn't have a ruckman's body and he's too valuable to be put in that position. Every game I saw where he spent time in the ruck he was physically smaller than his opponent. We are a better team when Pedo is playing forward/2nd ruck. Watts isn't the long term solution in that position 

30 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Do you think Watts is going to tell a GROUPY he doesn't enjoy playing in the ruck? 

Fixed

3 minutes ago, mo64 said:

You are misinterpreting what I'm saying. Your original response was "You say that as if it's easy". I'm saying that there are young untried ruckmen out there with more upside than Spencer, and I gave you examples of some who have been rookied recently. 

Mo, you said this:

53 minutes ago, mo64 said:

As WJ said, draft or trade in someone in their early 20's who has some upside to potentially play as a Forward/Ruckman. Spencer's ceiling is very low, and I doubt that he'll improve.

You've got from "draft or trade in someone...", then went on to list people who are going to be hard to get because they'll have no incentive to come here.  So what if there are untried ruckman out there with more upside than Spencer if they're not available to play for the Melbourne Football Club and are unlikely to come here.  

31 minutes ago, Whispering_Jack said:

McInerney was quite good in the early preseason games at Casey but he was behind the two Kings and then Spencer came back early and the Scorps had no room for him with Jake & Max King (after Mitch's injury) and Pedo and Declan Keilty also helping out. McInerney got a game (maybe 2) in mid season but eventually, when Max King wasn't producing, he and Oscar basically changed places and the latter looks set to play out the finals in the Casey seniors now. 

I think McInerney was also instrumental in the Development League's rapid improvement in the second half of the year. They've certainly gone downhill quickly in his absence.

Thanks WJ.  You'd hope the club would be having a look - when was the last time our club took a player from its own VFL side? Shane Valenti and Stefan Martin came from that avenue but I can't think of anyone more recent than that.

10 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

 

 

So are boring gifs, I have a very good relationship with the players, i usually get good feedback from them, some I share on here, if you have a problem with that, it's your problem

21 minutes ago, Nasher said:

Thanks WJ.  You'd hope the club would be having a look - when was the last time our club took a player from its own VFL side? Shane Valenti and Stefan Martin came from that avenue but I can't think of anyone more recent than that.

Matthew Warnock was another from around that time.

33 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Regardless of what you think Watts weighs, he certainly doesn't have a ruckman's body and he's too valuable to be put in that position. Every game I saw where he spent time in the ruck he was physically smaller than his opponent. We are a better team when Pedo is playing forward/2nd ruck. Watts isn't the long term solution in that position 

Oh please, too valuable, team member, one of 22, didn't say Watts was long term solution, but if utilised there next season, he will have a pre season to work on the ruck craft.

What will your reaction be to seeing Hogan rotating through the midfield next season?

We just signed Frank on for next year, King is miles off.

We are lucky Max didn't miss a game.

46 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

Fixed

No the spelling is incorrect Cruds, sorry Cards

Biffen,players can be traded when under contract.Cloke is under contct next year and he will be traded. Players like Spencer want to play seniors not live in someones shadow.