1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Frawley for pick 3. Sylvia for pick 23. We were looked after. 

 

And who did the Lions lose to get their PP?

14 minutes ago, Redleg said:

And who did the Lions lose to get their PP?

Exactly! All this talk about us being looked after with the compo is crap. We got exactly what we were entitled to under the rules, nothing more and nothing less, every other club would have recieved exactly the same. 

Where we did get help was with PJ and paying out contracts. 

7 minutes ago, Chris said:

Exactly! All this talk about us being looked after with the compo is crap. We got exactly what we were entitled to under the rules, nothing more and nothing less, every other club would have recieved exactly the same. 

Where we did get help was with PJ and paying out contracts. 

But again, not as much money as the Dogs, Blues and Saints get each year. The Blues a poor club, with 2 of the richest families in Australia bankrolling them, Pratts and Mathiesons.

We got some help from the AFL, but so does every other club in some way.

I don't need justification for the Lions PP. I don't really care that they got a PP even though Chris Pelchen just said that pick 19 is very valuable in this draft.

The AFL just does whatever it wants.

Our competition has no integrity at all.

Edited October 6, 20168 yr by Redleg

God, all the [censored] excuses they invented to deny our request in 2013. We were only bad because of injuries! Because our list was so young! We still had plenty of youth and just needed time. What absolute horseshit; they clearly had no intention of giving us anything and looked for any excuse to help Brisbane here, despite the fact the exact same reasons they used to justify snubbing us apply equally to Brisbane's situation right now.

Of course, in this situation though, they'll conveniently overlook the fact that their losses were a result of a clueless senior coach who had lost the players for years.

And ignore that Brisbane are one of 4 clubs with a free-hit at elite talent via an Academy!

Oh, and completely ignore the fact their soulless club has won 3 premierships in the last 15 years!

Wish someone had dragged out Swann's scathing comments from a few years back about us getting a priority pick. Conveniently kept his mouth shut once the shoe was on the other foot and he was down on both knees begging for the AFL to buy him a new coach, a new coaching panel, a new GM of football and a priority pick as the cherry on top. I guess money on a tap from AFL HQ is fine when it's your own hand outstretched, you [censored] hypocritical [censored]!

Edited October 6, 20168 yr by SaberFang

Just when you think the AFL couldn't be more full of shlt....they always surpass themselves

Well done Gil. 

1 hour ago, Earl Hood said:

But aren't they just following their secret formula? Once they input the relevant data, the algorithm spat out the answer, i.e. end of second round priority. It's all done at arms length surely but people here are alluding to some contrived outcome! 

The "secret formula" is just a yes/no questionnaire. Score one point for every Yes answer.

"If Brisbane rise up the ladder, will your bonus go up? Yes/No"

"If Brisbane pull more attendees, will the TV $$$ go up? Yes/No"

No computer required, just a self-interested AFL executive.

29 minutes ago, SaberFang said:

God, all the [censored] excuses they invented to deny our request in 2013. We were only bad because of injuries! Because our list was so young! We still had plenty of youth and just needed time. What absolute horseshit; they clearly had no intention of giving us anything and looked for any excuse to help Brisbane here, despite the fact the exact same reasons they used to justify snubbing us apply equally to Brisbane's situation right now.

Of course, in this situation though, they'll conveniently overlook the fact that their losses were a result of a clueless senior coach who had lost the players for years.

And ignore that Brisbane are one of 4 clubs with a free-hit at elite talent via an Academy!

Oh, and completely ignore the fact their soulless club has won 3 premierships in the last 15 years!

Wish someone had dragged out Swann's scathing comments from a few years back about us getting a priority pick. Conveniently kept his mouth shut once the shoe was on the other foot and he was down on both knees begging for the AFL to buy him a new coach, a new coaching panel, a new GM of football and a priority pick as the cherry on top. I guess money on a tap from AFL HQ is fine when it's your own hand outstretched, you [censored] hypocritical [censored]!

Saber, lucky you didn't hear Swan on SEN this morning with KB, he was talking up their list no end, said Fagan was really enthusiastic about their kids and what's coming up in their Academy, in short he was lauding the future prospects of the Lions. I thought gee this is not the message you send when you are after, cap in hand, a priority pick from the AFL commission of drones! He was asked about the pp decision and claimed ignorance as to when the decision would be made. I suspect he already knew the outcome this morning when he was jibbering on. And as you point out, talk about hypocrisy of the highest order, what was his argument for us not getting a pp was the AFL shouldn't be rewarding failure or something similar! 

Edited October 6, 20168 yr by Earl Hood

I'm not overly fussed by Bris. getting a priority pick, but I detest the double standards involved by our governing body.  Shameful!

3 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Irrelevant.

The AFL has made a statement today (as it did with its decisions over Essendon's treatment earlier this year) that certain clubs will receive different and special consideration. The AFL's draft is totally compromised and it's integrity in tatters.

All too true, WJ, but that is a bit harsh on tatters

3 hours ago, Redleg said:

And who did the Lions lose to get their PP?

It's not like they haven't lost players before, but overall I'd say the upgrades we got on Frawley and Sylvia were worth the same as the pick 19 Brisbane are getting.

The reality is that the AFL is obviously super concerned about the performance of a required AFL club in NRL heartland.

Sure, it's total b.s that the Lions get a priority pick in circumstances where we were denied one a few years ago despite having an overwhelming case for getting one.

But I don't see this case like that. To my mind, it's more on par with GWS and the Suns getting unbelievable support (i.e. priority picks) in order to succeed. The only difference here is that it's a priority pick going to an established club - the principles remain similar though.

A weak Brisbane Lions is bad business for the national completion, whereas we were just another struggling Melbourne based club with an unfortunate narrative.

 

9 hours ago, Deeoldfart said:

I'm not overly fussed by Bris. getting a priority pick, but I detest the double standards involved by our governing body.  Shameful!

The AFL would've loved to of given Brisbane a before the first round PP. They couldn't do that without compromising themselves greatly. They already look pathetic.

8 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

It's not like they haven't lost players before, but overall I'd say the upgrades we got on Frawley and Sylvia were worth the same as the pick 19 Brisbane are getting.

But that was the application of the rule. Just like the bottom team gets first pick and so on.

Frawley's contract price and length and his age etc, led to only that conclusion, under the compensation formula. We got nothing extra, it was just that we were near the bottom, which was how the rule was designed.

With Brisbane they are better off than us with their list, players to come back, Beams etc, games won, finals a few years ago and 3 flags and a GF 12 years ago. Not to mention their Academy.

Either apply the rules or don't.

I hate the ad hoc nature, of this administration of a sports competition. 

PS. I would have more respect for this decision, if they came out and said that the MFC deserved one, but we are more concerned with making the non victorian teams strong, for the benefit of ratings, income and the health of the National competition. Pigs will fly.

Edited October 6, 20168 yr by Redleg

37 minutes ago, Redleg said:

But that was the application of the rule. Just like the bottom team gets first pick and so on.

Frawley's contract price and length and his age etc, led to only that conclusion, under the compensation formula. We got nothing extra, it was just that we were near the bottom, which was how the rule was designed.

What exactly was Frawley's contract and the formula Red?  How can you be sure the AFL didn't manipulate that?

 

 

11 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

What exactly was Frawley's contract and the formula Red?  How can you be sure the AFL didn't manipulate that?

The AFL 'changed' their unknown/undisclosed formula after the Frawley pick: 

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-07/revealed-what-it-takes-to-earn-firstround-free-agency-compensation-

"CLUBS will only receive a first-round compensation pick after losing a free agent in 2015 if the player's new contract ranks them among the top five per cent of AFL wage earners aged 25 and older... It is believed the CEOs were told the 2015 threshold for a first-round compensation selection is significantly higher this year compared to 2014, when Melbourne received pick No.3 as compensation for losing defender James Frawley to Hawthorn... The AFL also explained that if a player's contract offer ranked in the next 10 per cent band then he would command compensation at the end of the first round, the next 15 per cent earned a second-round pick and the next 20 per cent earned a pick at the end of the second round".

Doubt this would stop the AFL making up 'other circumstances' to justify any comp pick they want to give!

 

18 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

The AFL 'changed' their unknown/undisclosed formula after the Frawley pick: 

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-07/revealed-what-it-takes-to-earn-firstround-free-agency-compensation-

"CLUBS will only receive a first-round compensation pick after losing a free agent in 2015 if the player's new contract ranks them among the top five per cent of AFL wage earners aged 25 and older... It is believed the CEOs were told the 2015 threshold for a first-round compensation selection is significantly higher this year compared to 2014, when Melbourne received pick No.3 as compensation for losing defender James Frawley to Hawthorn... The AFL also explained that if a player's contract offer ranked in the next 10 per cent band then he would command compensation at the end of the first round, the next 15 per cent earned a second-round pick and the next 20 per cent earned a pick at the end of the second round".

Doubt this would stop the AFL making up 'other circumstances' to justify any comp pick they want to give!

 

The injustice!  MFC receive a 1st rounder at 3 for Frawley but then the AFL change the rules (that weren't public anyway) so that Richmond won't receive one for Vickery and Fremantle won't receive one for Mayne this year.

The AFL manipulates the rules to suit their outcomes, but we have not been short-changed.

Edited October 6, 20168 yr by Fifty-5

21 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

The injustice!  MFC receive a 1st rounder at 3 for Frawley but then the AFL change the rules (that weren't public anyway) so that Richmond won't receive one for Vickery and Fremantle won't receive one for Mayne this year.

The AFL manipulates the rules to suit their outcomes, but we have not been short-changed.

doubt that vickery or mayne would have got a first round pp even with the pre 2015 rules, f5. i doubt that their (new) contracts would be that lucrative in terms of $s and length of contract (compared to say frawley). 

4 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

doubt that vickery or mayne would have got a first round pp even with the pre 2015 rules, f5. i doubt that their (new) contracts would be that lucrative in terms of $s and length of contract (compared to say frawley). 

I've seen 4 x $450k speculated for the Mayne contract and Vickery's is 3 years.  The point is that we have no real idea.  

1 minute ago, Fifty-5 said:

I've seen 4 x $450k speculated for the Mayne contract and Vickery's is 3 years.  The point is that we have no real idea.  

yes, we have no real idea and probably never will.

it was (speculatively) said that frawley got offered a lot more than $450k. $450k is not that much more than average earnings when you exclude players with 1-3 years experience, so a band 1 was always going to need more than that, pre 2015 or not

6 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

yes, we have no real idea and probably never will.

it was (speculatively) said that frawley got offered a lot more than $450k. $450k is not that much more than average earnings when you exclude players with 1-3 years experience, so a band 1 was always going to need more than that, pre 2015 or not

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/hawthorn/james-frawley-joins-hawthorn-as-a-free-agent-melbourne-receives-pick-3-as-compensation/news-story/fcdb69c6666a5fbb241dac67ab103b13

A handful of clubs believed Frawley’s Hawks contract — believed to be worth $2.2 million across four years — could only net the Demons an end-of-first-round selection.

8 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/hawthorn/james-frawley-joins-hawthorn-as-a-free-agent-melbourne-receives-pick-3-as-compensation/news-story/fcdb69c6666a5fbb241dac67ab103b13

A handful of clubs believed Frawley’s Hawks contract — believed to be worth $2.2 million across four years — could only net the Demons an end-of-first-round selection.

like i said frawley (reportedly) got an extra $100k per year and that was in 2014 money so really equates to maybe $150+ per year more than mayne reportedly wants

so, i'm still not convinced vickery or mayne are comparable to frawley

20 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/hawthorn/james-frawley-joins-hawthorn-as-a-free-agent-melbourne-receives-pick-3-as-compensation/news-story/fcdb69c6666a5fbb241dac67ab103b13

A handful of clubs believed Frawley’s Hawks contract — believed to be worth $2.2 million across four years — could only net the Demons an end-of-first-round selection.

From memory they said Frawley just got into the top bracket. Had it been 3 years or a bit less money he would have been in the bracket below.

23 hours ago, Chris said:

From memory they said Frawley just got into the top bracket. Had it been 3 years or a bit less money he would have been in the bracket below.

Yes I'm sure the AFL made sure he did.

Free agency open: Wells, Vickery, Mayne and others set to find new homes

Wells, 31, is expected to depart North Melbourne after 14 seasons to join Collingwood on a three-year deal worth up to $600,000 a season, while the Magpies are also set to snare Fremantle forward Mayne on a four-year deal understood to be worth more than $500,000 a season.

4 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

Yes I'm sure the AFL made sure he did.

I'm not at all. I think it is more likely they stuffed the formula and we benefitted, especially as they changed thr formula the next year by moving the bar higher. 

1 minute ago, Chris said:

I'm not at all. I think it is more likely they stuffed the formula and we benefitted, especially as they changed thr formula the next year by moving the bar higher. 

More likely they manipulated the "formula" to make sure we got pick 3 instead of pick 18 after they found they couldn't give us a PP for "not tanking".  Then they decided they better amend and publish the formula to cover future dealings.

The whole thrust of this thread is that MFC has been stiffed- we haven't, we've had our share of benefits of AFL manipulation.