19 hours ago, mo64 said:

You're comparing a B&F player from another club in Vince to fringe players in Bugg and Kennedy. Vince had exposed form, whilst Bugg and Kennedy were battling to get a game with sides that didn't make the eight. They may make our list better because they're replacing substandard players, and that doesn't guarantee additional wins.

I'm bullish about Brayshaw, Oliver and Petracca going forward, but as Terry Wallace pointed out, we need to give them time. I'm not as confident with Trengove having any impact this year.

The youngest list argument doesn't carry any weight for mine. The strength of your list is all about how many A and B graders you currently have, not about the potential of your list due to age. With free agency, teams can leapfrog others with 1 or 2 key acquisitions.

And I'm not sure why everyone is using St.Kilda as a comparison. It's their senior players that towelled us up last year, and they're still playing. Long term we should surpass them, but this year their senior players are still a concern to us. 

I thought that Wallace's analysis was spot on. With our draw, 8 wins is a pass mark.

 Assessments of our upcoming season like Roundtable and Wallace's are actually based on last years data which is why so many preseason prognostications look so silly come the end of the season.  That's why its easier to call the top 8 after rd 11 than  before rd 1.  Call them A and B graders or elite (top10%) and above average (top 35%) -  premiership contenders have around 15 on their list in the first two categories and finalists somewhere between 10-13.  I'm not sure how many we had last year but expect us to have between 8-11 this year.

In the last two years we tracked according to club expectations (though 7 wins last year was at the bottom end of their target). They've set a target of finals for this year.  Maybe they're right and maybe they're wrong, but I think this is more significant in shaping my expectations than analysis  based largely on yesterday's 'metrics'.  Though many commentators have been happy with our preseason the sample is too small and the reliability of the comp is questionable.

Edited March 18, 20169 yr by grazman

David King, what an absolute bellend. 

You'd put Petracca's number on your son's back if you were a Melbourne fan?

He hasn't even played a game!

Neither had Hogan this time last year. Maybe we should also suspend selling No.5 guernseys until he plays a game so we don't end up with a bunch of bell-end kids hanging out at our games.

26 minutes ago, Seraph said:

David King, what an absolute bellend. 

You'd put Petracca's number on your son's back if you were a Melbourne fan?

He hasn't even played a game!

Have you seen him train? i promise as soon as he gets out and plays a few games he'll become a favourite very quickly, he's another Brayshaw, or Oliver but with the power and Marking to nearly match Jesse Hogan 

FOX FOOTY - "Who's number are you putting on the back of your Melbourne jumper?"

Urgh.

10 hours ago, Seraph said:

David King, what an absolute bellend. 

You'd put Petracca's number on your son's back if you were a Melbourne fan?

He hasn't even played a game!

So would I.

On 3/16/2016 at 8:11 AM, Ron Burgundy said:

The Pies are looking pretty decent.

 

[censored]

23 hours ago, Peter Griffen said:

The biggest difference between us and the Saints in my opinion is they're still relying on the older blokes, Roo, Joey, Steven, Armatidge, fisher and Dempster to really be the core of the team, ours has kind of been handed on the most part over to our young guys, Viney, Hogan, Tyson, Mcdonaly, Gawn, Brayshaw and co, with Jones and Vince this year playing an important but less vital role, so i think we are about two years ahead of where they are in terms of chasing a flag. 

having said that i don't think 2016 will be a year where we see a heap more wins and play finals, i still think we lack a quality partner for Jesse, some outside class and speed and our delivery out of the back line is still a bit to shaking to consistently beat good teams just yet. but i see us as an 8-12 win team, depending on how things go, but the big improvement i think will be close we get in our losses, i think we are now a team that won't be blown away and will put up a real fight every week regardless of who we play and where we play.

I also don't think the Saints have recruited all that well, Billings is a gun, but Dunstan i see as being solid but nothing special, McCartin is going to take some time and the jury is out, same with Goddard,

in terms of the young talent

 

• Tyson
• Viney
• Brayshaw
• Petracca
• Hogan
• Gawn
• Mcdonald
• Kent
• Salem
• Oliver
• Weiderman
• Trengove
• Stretch
• Harmes

 

 

• Billings
• Mcartin
• Bruce
• Goddard
• Hickey
• Dunstan 
• Greesham
• Lonie

Not sure i fi am missing any, but on exposed form i think our young players are miles better and will take the club forwrd, i am not convinced the saints have anything like the group to do that, still rely on the old blokes, 

 

Bruce and Billings are the only two on that list i believe would be certains in their next finals team, maybe lonie

I'd add Neal-Bullen to our list also.

 

I reckon he's going to be a beauty!

this is as good a thread as any to ask this - is he Weidema fit? is expected t Casey any time soon?

I don't think the game plan is going too change to much from the NAB challenger just because Roos will take back the box on game day, do you? 

This is Simons team at the end of the season so you would think Roos will be showing Goody the types of changers he will need to make on game day with his game plan to make it work when we're losing. 

It wouldn't surprise me if SG will be coaching in the box by the end of the season and Roos will be sitting at ground level with the players. 

 

On 18 March 2016 at 10:09 AM, P-man said:

The panel spoke excitedly about the young core we have assembled, Brad Johnson in particular.  The distinction was drawn between us and the Saints, with the Saints still needing to draft potential stars, and our potential stars already on the list.

Of course it helps that we beat St Kilda in the NAB, with most fans and commentators having the memory of s goldfish. But it's still nice to hear people talking so glowingly about Melbourne.

AFL supporters have bad goldfish syndrome, if we play bad against GWS in round one it will be doom a gloom again but if we string a few wins together the past 10 year will be forgotten in a blink of an eye. 

3 minutes ago, ILLDieADemon said:

AFL supporters have bad goldfish syndrome, if we play bad against GWS in round one it will be doom a gloom again but if we string a few wins together the past 10 year will be forgotten in a blink of an eye. 

is that like deer in the headlights syndrome, idad? 

Kinda getting getting sick of this garbage that's being trotted out about the attacking plan being all Goodies doing, and only due to him being in the box. It as if the senior coach has completely left the building....

No the plan from the minute Roos entered that it was all about turning lover the list, shoring up the defence then the coming phase is starting the attack build.

It is going to plan. That we appear to have some competence to follow Roos is brilliant, but all part of the plan. The coaching over Summer and the praccy matches is a group effort and for numpties like King to trot out this crap, just looks like cheap shots at Roos for the sake of it

On 3/18/2016 at 1:32 PM, ProDee said:

Unlike some, I really like listening to Plough.  He said prior to the game (and has said repeatedly for weeks) that "Melbourne will go past the Saints at 100 miles per hour".

He tipped the Saints before the match.

I agree on Wallace. Not sure why some people are so negative about him - perhaps it's his slightly annoying voice - but i reckon he is the most balanced analyst going round. Shits all over King

Edited March 19, 20169 yr by binman

26 minutes ago, jako13 said:

Kinda getting getting sick of this garbage that's being trotted out about the attacking plan being all Goodies doing, and only due to him being in the box. It as if the senior coach has completely left the building....

No the plan from the minute Roos entered that it was all about turning lover the list, shoring up the defence then the coming phase is starting the attack build.

It is going to plan. That we appear to have some competence to follow Roos is brilliant, but all part of the plan. The coaching over Summer and the praccy matches is a group effort and for numpties like King to trot out this crap, just looks like cheap shots at Roos for the sake of it

I 100% agree and to my mind King's comments in that Fox analysis just shows up how [censored] poor and shallow so much so called analysis is in the footy media. It really annoys me. I mean, please as if Goodwin has been a silver bullet and Roos is an out of touch dinosaur still wedded to outdated defense first strategies. For Pete's sake Roos came up with the succession plan and no doubt was instrumental in selecting Goodwin - and one assumes that a key factor was Goodwin's strategic philosophy. 

Where is the kudos for Roos for having the courage to give Goodwin the head coach role during the NAB games. Given they made their expectation of winning all 3 games very clear it takes a pretty self confident and assured man to do that (let Goodwin coach) as such simplistic comments as those made by King were pretty likely to be made. 

And as you say Ros has always made it clear that the critical step is getting the defense right before moving to the attack - a point made by one of the commentators in tha saints game who said the critical feature of the Hawks reign is averaging over 100 points and conceding less than 86 on average. We have sorted the second part of that equation. Now for the first part. 

Edited March 19, 20169 yr by binman

56 minutes ago, binman said:

Roos has always made it clear that the critical step is getting the defense right before moving to the attack - a point made by one of the commentators in thesaints game who said the critical feature of the Hawks reign is averaging over 100 points and conceding less than 86 on average. We have sorted the second part of that equation. Now for the first part. 

This goal beautifully illustrates the need for both a terrific defense and offence and i expect is the template for the next phase for the dees. I have no doubt the players will have been showed it a few times to reinforce the rewards for getting the defense and offence balance right (features a nice attacking kick from Tmac too. Worth noting the goal would not have been scored if he wasn't prepared to take the risk with that kick. The much maligned Grimes is also involved with a nice kick to a target):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vqYHbZIvBE

 

Edited March 19, 20169 yr by binman

10 minutes ago, binman said:

This goal beautifully illustrates the need for both a terrific defense and office and i expect is the template for the next phase for the dees. I have no doubt the players will have been showed it a few times to reinforce the rewards for getting the dense and offence balance right (features a nice attacking kick from Tmac too. Worth noting the goal would not have been scored if he wasn't prepared to take the risk with that kick. The much maligned Grimes is also involved with a nice kick to a target):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vqYHbZIvBE

 

perfect end-to-end footy courtesy of the Melbourne Footy Club

Dead set, David King is having a laugh.

Does he honestly think Simon Goodwin is doing his own thing, and Roosy is going to take back over this week and flick a switch and change the game plan? Idiot.

1 hour ago, binman said:

This goal beautifully illustrates the need for both a terrific defense and offence and i expect is the template for the next phase for the dees. I have no doubt the players will have been showed it a few times to reinforce the rewards for getting the defense and offence balance right (features a nice attacking kick from Tmac too. Worth noting the goal would not have been scored if he wasn't prepared to take the risk with that kick. The much maligned Grimes is also involved with a nice kick to a target):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vqYHbZIvBE

 

Really good second efforts from several players, the Salem smother, the scrap for the ball by multiple players.

Jetta so clean and strong with the pick up. An underrated part of any footballers game turning contested ball in to clean possession. 

Fast hands from Bugg (he's great on his left hand handball and vision, needs to round it out on his right). Clarry moves it on safely as the midfield have numbers back, doesn't bomb away. Smarter handball than it looks originally from BK. Super hands from Gawn. Super running to space from Tom McDonald, which then allows him the safe option to kick to! It's almost impossible to miss that kick. Over kick it  or spray it left or right and it's still safe.

I know this is harsh, but I'm just not convinced Grimes made the very best option. He's kicked nicely to Garlett who has the speed to move it on to Kent which all worked well. Yet he could've just looped a weighted handball to Viney who could've then run freely through the corridor and had the same choice of Hogan v Garlett, plus really drawn out the defender to make the 2 on 1 even more pronounced. I know the game plan is to get it on quickly to open forwards, but I'd never give up a simple handball to an open runner in the corridor. Grimes did the same thing with a Harmes goal against the Dogs. Ignored the open short option. I'm just not convinced he has AFL level vision.

Oh and Hogan should sit at CHF when the Garlett gets the ball so the man is dragged away from Kent instead of running towards him. Plus that way Jeff could center it to him (if needed) without having to kick over the mark.

 

 

1 hour ago, binman said:

 The much maligned Grimes is also involved with a nice kick to a target):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vqYHbZIvBE

 

According to the commentary Grimes actually picked up a couple of disposals in that passage within six seconds and 60m apart.

2 minutes ago, Skuit said:

According to the commentary Grimes actually picked up a couple of disposals in that passage within six seconds and 60m apart.

He's good

I suppose Grimes and Gawn do look somewhat alike. Similar game-day fashion sense.

3 hours ago, binman said:

I agree on Wallace. Not sure why some people are so negative about him - perhaps it's his slightly annoying voice - but i reckon he is the most balanced analyst going round. Shits all over King

I've always found it a bit rich listening to the 'List Analyst', a bloke who completely bungled Richmond's list. He might say the occasional piece of common sense, otherwise he's just as bad as the rest. The same with David King. He didn't last long in a Footy Department. I wonder why...

Don't forget it's the recruiting team that make most decisions on who's best etc, the coach gives them a what we need scenario, but they go by the recruiters judgement. That's what they are there for.