Saturday Talking Point: The NAB Challenge

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,019]

21 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

How relevant was our gameplan and the players game sense last year and how do you expect this to be different this year?

How did our backs and forwards structure up last year and how do you expect this to be different this year?

How did the midfield match up, perform at clearances/stoppages and rotate last year and how do you expect this to be different this year?

Was our gameplan relevant last year....

Whilst we competed well in some games and had a drought breaking win at the Cattery ultimately the answer has to be no. For a team centred around defence we were dismantled too many times far to easily by sides in the top 4 as well as sides in the bottom 4. We had numerous qtrs where teams were able to score between 6-8 goals against us (in round 20 the Bulldogs piled on 10 goals to 1 in the last qtr) whilst other games we had lost before we ran out because simply because scoring wasn't a focus, and if it was we didn't have the players capable of carrying out the gameplan. Last season we didn't have the depth many thought, whilst our list is in a better position the majority of our talent falls into the age bracket of 23 and under, we are still at least another 1-2 seasons away from real depth. We had a sound best 22 but once we sustained injuries we were exposed. We lack onfield leadership, I love the way Jones goes about his footy but he isn't a leader, not in the way I'd like him to be. He got little to no help last year from Dunn, Garland, Watts and The Prince. I think Grimes has some great leadership qualities but that all goes out the window when the ball is in his hands, too many basic skills errors, poor decision making and an inability to influence games. Dawes has also shown the ability to lead but again he is unable to influence games and struggled to stay fit. We lack game sense, it's as if some players can't think for themselves, we go into a game with a clear plan but seem to forget there's an opposition plotting against us. When things don't go to plan we are unable to adapt at all, players look as if they're not sure what to do having to wait until the break to seek further instructions from Roos meanwhile the opposition has piled on 8 goals to 1. What has continued to kill us is that the playing group as a whole dont come to play every week. Someone might work hard to run and spread to receive the footy only to look up the ground to find that no one else had has done the same, resulting in the opposition defence getting back and the player having to kick the ball backwards or sideways. 

How will this be different this year....

- Goodwin's introduction of an attacking gameplan, finding the balance will be crucial. 

- identifying the need for both back flankers to to be able to use the footy. Will be interesting to see who gets upgraded of the rookie list.

- the continued development of players, improving not only their individual skill level but their game sense.

- hopefully the realisation from players for the need to come to play every week. Roos to spend his last year drumming into the players to finally take ownership of the culture and the playing standards.

- having a dominant ruckman.

- hopefully better luck with injuries us our depth isn't quite there, a lot of our depth are kids. This will give us better continuity.

- Making Jack Watts a stay at home fwd and being part of a three pronged attack along with Hogan, Pedo/Frost. 

- Making players accountable, weeding out those that don't have the necessary skills/footy smarts followed by those that don't compete.

- Having Casey play the same brand/style of footy as us making the transition easier for players.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,534]

Does anyone know what 'modified' rules are in play for the preseason comp? (ie, supergoals, etc). I must admit to fence-sitting on the issue. On the one hand, I think any pre-season matches should be played with rules as close as possible to the real thing. Otherwise it doesn't help teams to fine-tune their style of play. On the other hand, I see some value for the AFL in using the pre-season games as a test lab for ideas to see if they work in (almost) real life situations. On balance, I suspect the test lab is more valuable overall than having simulations of the real thing.

[Forest Demon 4,681]

1 hour ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Does anyone know what 'modified' rules are in play for the preseason comp? (ie, supergoals, etc). I must admit to fence-sitting on the issue. On the one hand, I think any pre-season matches should be played with rules as close as possible to the real thing. Otherwise it doesn't help teams to fine-tune their style of play. On the other hand, I see some value for the AFL in using the pre-season games as a test lab for ideas to see if they work in (almost) real life situations. On balance, I suspect the test lab is more valuable overall than having simulations of the real thing.

Imo, it is a perfect place to trial a couple of new rules that might be introduced in the near future, but there is no point adding gimmicks like super goals.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

6 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

 

How will this be different this year....

- Goodwin's introduction of an attacking gameplan, finding the balance will be crucial. 

- identifying the need for both back flankers to to be able to use the footy. Will be interesting to see who gets upgraded of the rookie list.

- the continued development of players, improving not only their individual skill level but their game sense.

- hopefully the realisation from players for the need to come to play every week. Roos to spend his last year drumming into the players to finally take ownership of the culture and the playing standards.

- having a dominant ruckman.

- hopefully better luck with injuries us our depth isn't quite there, a lot of our depth are kids. This will give us better continuity.

- Making Jack Watts a stay at home fwd and being part of a three pronged attack along with Hogan, Pedo/Frost. 

- Making players accountable, weeding out those that don't have the necessary skills/footy smarts followed by those that don't compete.

- Having Casey play the same brand/style of footy as us making the transition easier for players.

Great post.

I think those four highlighted points are the ones that will determine how quickly we can improve this year and I think the NAB challenge games should be used to showcase which of White/Wagner will play on the other flank to Salem.

For as long as I can remember, we've always struggled with kicking skills from back of centre field. During slow play build up mainly. I've never known a team to struggle for as long as we have. On the counter we can look good, but surely Hawthorn have shown the entire AFL how important it is to have players who can use the footy really well by hand and by foot. They've got them all over the ground. 

Salem/Vince and White/Wagner on each flank is what I'd like to see. I've seen enough of Grimes and given that Lamumba won't be featuring early and Melksham not at all, I'd like to see White and Wagner get a feel for it.

 

 

[Bossdog 2,002]

8 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Great post.

I think those four highlighted points are the ones that will determine how quickly we can improve this year and I think the NAB challenge games should be used to showcase which of White/Wagner will play on the other flank to Salem.

For as long as I can remember, we've always struggled with kicking skills from back of centre field. During slow play build up mainly. I've never known a team to struggle for as long as we have. On the counter we can look good, but surely Hawthorn have shown the entire AFL how important it is to have players who can use the footy really well by hand and by foot. They've got them all over the ground. 

Salem/Vince and White/Wagner on each flank is what I'd like to see. I've seen enough of Grimes and given that Lamumba won't be featuring early and Melksham not at all, I'd like to see White and Wagner get a feel for it.

 

 

Wow....White has played one game and Wagner is still a rookie

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

25 minutes ago, Bossdog said:

Wow....White has played one game and Wagner is still a rookie

Yeh.

Nab Challenge mate.

Calm your farm.

[Bossdog 2,002]

1 hour ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Yeh.

Nab Challenge mate.

Calm your farm.

My error........Thought you meant in the main season.

[71 Molloy 266]

3 hours ago, Bossdog said:

Wow....White has played one game and Wagner is still a rookie

Maybe.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,019]

3 hours ago, Bossdog said:

Wow....White has played one game and Wagner is still a rookie

Who's your choice for half back? We ideally need 3-4 players who can rotate between there and the midfield and can use the footy. 

 

[old55 21,818]

23 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Was our gameplan relevant last year....

Whilst we competed well in some games and had a drought breaking win at the Cattery ultimately the answer has to be no. For a team centred around defence we were dismantled too many times far to easily by sides in the top 4 as well as sides in the bottom 4. We had numerous qtrs where teams were able to score between 6-8 goals against us (in round 20 the Bulldogs piled on 10 goals to 1 in the last qtr) whilst other games we had lost before we ran out because simply because scoring wasn't a focus, and if it was we didn't have the players capable of carrying out the gameplan. Last season we didn't have the depth many thought, whilst our list is in a better position the majority of our talent falls into the age bracket of 23 and under, we are still at least another 1-2 seasons away from real depth. We had a sound best 22 but once we sustained injuries we were exposed. We lack onfield leadership, I love the way Jones goes about his footy but he isn't a leader, not in the way I'd like him to be. He got little to no help last year from Dunn, Garland, Watts and The Prince. I think Grimes has some great leadership qualities but that all goes out the window when the ball is in his hands, too many basic skills errors, poor decision making and an inability to influence games. Dawes has also shown the ability to lead but again he is unable to influence games and struggled to stay fit. We lack game sense, it's as if some players can't think for themselves, we go into a game with a clear plan but seem to forget there's an opposition plotting against us. When things don't go to plan we are unable to adapt at all, players look as if they're not sure what to do having to wait until the break to seek further instructions from Roos meanwhile the opposition has piled on 8 goals to 1. What has continued to kill us is that the playing group as a whole dont come to play every week. Someone might work hard to run and spread to receive the footy only to look up the ground to find that no one else had has done the same, resulting in the opposition defence getting back and the player having to kick the ball backwards or sideways. 

How will this be different this year....

- Goodwin's introduction of an attacking gameplan, finding the balance will be crucial. 

- identifying the need for both back flankers to to be able to use the footy. Will be interesting to see who gets upgraded of the rookie list.

- the continued development of players, improving not only their individual skill level but their game sense.

- hopefully the realisation from players for the need to come to play every week. Roos to spend his last year drumming into the players to finally take ownership of the culture and the playing standards.

- having a dominant ruckman.

- hopefully better luck with injuries us our depth isn't quite there, a lot of our depth are kids. This will give us better continuity.

- Making Jack Watts a stay at home fwd and being part of a three pronged attack along with Hogan, Pedo/Frost. 

- Making players accountable, weeding out those that don't have the necessary skills/footy smarts followed by those that don't compete.

- Having Casey play the same brand/style of footy as us making the transition easier for players.

Thanks for the reply ... but I was really asking about illumination on gameplan and I didn't read much if any of that.

Quarter by quarter score results, list depth, player skills, players leadership qualities, players readiness to play - that's all fine - but what was the gameplan last year and how might it be different this year?

Edited February 10, 2016 by Fifty-5

[beelzebub 22,697]

29 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

Thanks for the reply ... but I was really asking about illumination on gameplan and I didn't read much if any of that.

Quarter by quarter score results, list depth, player skills, players leadership qualities, players readiness to play - that's all fine - but what was the gameplan last year and how might it be different this year?

Last year appeared the consolidation of defensive /negating skillsets etc.  or How to minimise damage for Dummies etc.  but it essentially lacked the flip side of a coherent well drilled and understood ( read  habitual ) attacking style to actually score.

This will hopefully be the difference this year....going the other way.....towards the scoreboard

[ILLDieADemon 804]

I hate the NAB Challenge, the possibility of a player getting injured stresses me out. 

[Whispering_Jack 28,102]

Judging from the reaction here to last night's shootout low scoring borefest in Tassie (of which I watched about 5 minutes) the NAB Challenge is, as I predicted, of no interest to anyone other than the supporters of the competing teams.

[bing181 8,353]

Anyone watching Freeo/Richmond?

Be afraid, be very afraid, Fremantle in another class. Already.

[Ethan Tremblay 28,765]

47 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Anyone watching Freeo/Richmond?

Be afraid, be very afraid, Fremantle in another class. Already.

Nuh. Richmond is playing their VFL team. Fremantle is near full strength and playing in WA.

[Ethan Tremblay 28,765]

And it looks like Pav is still telling porkies.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Ethan Tremblay

[Whispering_Jack 28,102]

I almost forgot but the most important aspect of the NAB Challenge must be the ladder:

Fremantle 1 - - 90 30 300.00 4

Hawthorn 1 - - 53 32 165.6 4

Carlton - 1 - 32 53 60.4 0

Richmond - 1 - 30 90 33.3 0

 

As you can see, the same old, same olds up near the top. Tigers hanging in there in the top four.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,019]

-

[bing181 8,353]

4 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Nuh. Richmond is playing their VFL team. Fremantle is near full strength and playing in WA.

Yes, understand that, but Freeo looked a long way in front of Hawthorn.

[Slartibartfast 16,091]

On 19 February 2016 at 5:11 PM, Whispering_Jack said:

Judging from the reaction here to last night's shootout low scoring borefest in Tassie (of which I watched about 5 minutes) the NAB Challenge is, as I predicted, of no interest to anyone other than the supporters of the competing teams.

Not at all. I've watched all but the Freo v Tiges game (I was otherwise engaged). Hawks game was crud but the other 2 were good. The Port Swans game particularly. Port with some good young players and The Toump to entertain and seeing Callum Mills was terrific. He will be a star. Put him in your fantasy team Jack, although I imagine you've filled it up with Demons already!

I'm surprised you don't like preseason given your interest in the young players entering the game. Each to there own. 

[Demon Jack 6,397]

On 19 February 2016 at 9:38 PM, Bombay Airconditioning said:

-

I disagree.

+

[KingDingAling 3,670]

On 19/2/2016 at 10:11 PM, Whispering_Jack said:

Judging from the reaction here to last night's shootout low scoring borefest in Tassie (of which I watched about 5 minutes) the NAB Challenge is, as I predicted, of no interest to anyone other than the supporters of the competing teams.

I only watch the NAB cup for supercoach purposes. But even then, I probably put too much weight into NAB Cup performances.

[Whispering_Jack 28,102]

8 hours ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Not at all. I've watched all but the Freo v Tiges game (I was otherwise engaged). Hawks game was crud but the other 2 were good. The Port Swans game particularly. Port with some good young players and The Toump to entertain and seeing Callum Mills was terrific. He will be a star. Put him in your fantasy team Jack, although I imagine you've filled it up with Demons already!

I'm surprised you don't like preseason given your interest in the young players entering the game. Each to there own. 

I passed on the footy yesterday afternoon to watch a movie with my wife. The film is called "Spotlight". It was absolutely outstanding (a candidate for a number of Oscars I'm my view), and watching it was a far more enlightening experience than seeing Buddy and Callum Mills playing in a glorified practice match but I will get to see players of that calibre in due course in real games later on. Incidentally, our coach (the official one) might not have been watching it either because he was spotted dining in Elwood at about that time.

Thankfully, there is a device that allows matches to be recorded on Foxtel and I might just catch a glimpse at some stage today or during the week. 

Meanwhile, the all-important NAB Challenge ladder is taking shape and the top four is already looking all too familiar. The Tigers are holding their spot in the eight:-

Fremantle 1 - - 90 30 300.00 4

Hawthorn 1 - - 53 32 165.6 4

North Melbourne 1 - - 117 73 160.3 4

Sydney 1 - - 81 60 135.00 4

Port Adelaide- 1 - 60 81 74.1 0

St Kilda - 1 - 73 117 62.4 0

Carlton - 1 - 32 53 60.4 0

Richmond - 1 - 30 90 33.3 0

[Gator 16,921]

8 hours ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Not at all. I've watched all but the Freo v Tiges game (I was otherwise engaged). Hawks game was crud but the other 2 were good. The Port Swans game particularly. Port with some good young players and The Toump to entertain and seeing Callum Mills was terrific. He will be a star. Put him in your fantasy team Jack, although I imagine you've filled it up with Demons already!

I'm surprised you don't like preseason given your interest in the young players entering the game. Each to there own. 

How good and clean was Callum Mills ?

No surprise we offered pick 3 for him.

[Dees2014 2,377]

On 8 February 2016 at 0:17 PM, Baghdad Bob said:

Your understanding of things is very blinkered.  Kevin Sheedy back in the '80 started to arrange practice matches against other clubs when there was no preseason comp.  He wanted genuine practice, not some "dancing with your sister" experience you get in intraclub matches.

The preseason comp holds many purposes for the clubs as it does for the AFL, sponsors and fans.  It's very simple really.  If you don't like it don't watch it.  If you do you can.  Personally I love it as it gives the first indications of the season to come and a chance to see the younger players in adult company.

You need to broaden your thinking.

I think there is a distinct commercial dimension to this. The AFL for good reasons do not like to be out of the sporting spotlight for long. At this time of the year (February/March) cricket has wound down, the NRL has started, and the A League finals are upon us. The AFL cannot afford to cede that commercial sporting space to their two main sporting rivals - hence the NAB Challenge.

My criticism of it is that it could be made more serious, and therefore more important, which I think was what was driving McGuire's comments, but I suspect the clubs themselves are the ones that choose the "glorified practice match" format, so it is inevitably a compromise.