Training - Monday 1st February, 2016

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,408]

10 minutes ago, dee-luded said:

maybe McCartney's attitude (at least they were quick), is that we are building, & learning,,,  & confidence follows theses things.  so we take what we have now,  & keep improving,  & being positive...   no point damaging low confidence in early stages of development.   we will improve,  as the weeks roll along.

Most players played rep footy as juniors. Each year brought a new coach and a new game plan. There's only so many ways you can play the game. For the first year players yes there's an element of learning for them as they take the next step to play AFL standard footy, but they are there because they have already pushed themselves this far, high standards must be set. Some of our senior players have the talent but still don't get it.

[rjay 25,093]

31 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

I thought part of their problem last year was they overtrained their players and cooked them. 

I've always been interested in the concept of one team figuring another team out. 17 other clubs seemingly can't figure Hawthorn out.

I think they've got them well figured. They are a better team with better, more skilled players.

[binman 43,813]

27 minutes ago, old dee said:

10 out of 10 Steve.

Full marks?

[picket fence 17,526]

On 2/1/2016 at 7:19 PM, Whispering_Jack said:

Photo gallery: 1 February 2016

I nearly choked on my two fruits and cream when I saw the image of Jack Watts !?? Sheeit has he put on some Muscle!

Look out all, ittttttsss Jaccky Time!!

Edited February 2, 2016 by picket fence

[dtrinh 71]

Yeah from the sounds of the match simulation a bit disappointed. Even though it is fairly early into the year, you would expect that the match simulation would be a good indication of how we will play during the upcoming season. You would have hoped for a greater improvement in skills coming into this season which doesn't sound like it with a 'scrappy' session. 

Also was interested to hear if there were any changes in the game plan. For the players to still be switching in the back line and then bombing it long down the line... can't see how we have changed from last year. Hopefully we add a few layers to our ball movement in the next few weeks. I was getting excited with all the talk from the boys, but I think I will have to be realistic. 

[DeeSpencer 26,083]

2 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

If it's scrappy for weeks then it's a concern.  If it's crappy just once then I think we can settle down just a touch.  Plenty of water to go under the bridge.

Thanks for the sensational reports GRRM.  It sounds as though there were a few going through the rehab group today - were some of them done as a precaution or do we have a few extra players with some niggles?

Wouldn't have the foggiest. We've heard Dawes and Terlich were injured up on the GC and Max King before they went up. JKH had tape on a knee, Watts looked fine but I think he gets managed with his groins. Spencer has been in and out of rehab and then there's Petracca, Lumumba and Trenners. 

I get the feeling Oliver, Weideman and Mitch King were a case of first year players. Oliver did quite a few laps once in the rehab group, presumably they are building his tank whilst taking him out of the physical drills. Mitch King went over to the paddock with Trengove and did some sprint, mark, kick stuff with Crossy and Trengove.

[stuie 7,374]

1 hour ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

I thought part of their problem last year was they overtrained their players and cooked them. 

I've always been interested in the concept of one team figuring another team out. 17 other clubs seemingly can't figure Hawthorn out.

Good point, will be interesting to see if it happens again this year given they've done the same kind of punishing offseason.

I think the "figure them out" concept applies to decent teams with a good game plan, whereas everyone knows what Hawthorn are going to do, but it's another thing being able to stop them doing it.

 

[DeeSpencer 26,083]

5 minutes ago, dtrinh said:

Yeah from the sounds of the match simulation a bit disappointed. Even though it is fairly early into the year, you would expect that the match simulation would be a good indication of how we will play during the upcoming season. You would have hoped for a greater improvement in skills coming into this season which doesn't sound like it with a 'scrappy' session. 

Also was interested to hear if there were any changes in the game plan. For the players to still be switching in the back line and then bombing it long down the line... can't see how we have changed from last year. Hopefully we add a few layers to our ball movement in the next few weeks. I was getting excited with all the talk from the boys, but I think I will have to be realistic. 

I don't think we've got some special innovation like the Clarko Cluster or Weagles Web coming. Our game plan is similar just with a focus on being more aggressive. 

From deep in the backline it's hard to do anything but switch it around and eventually bomb it long to a tall. I mean you can try and run numbers back and handball it around but we won't do that. I think the coaches want to see faster movement and spread so that the open man presents, but McCartney is often emphasising to take the easy option. There isn't a desire to spear kicks in to tight windows from deep in the backline and I don't think there should be.

If we play at a higher pace and with more aggressive pressing up the ground then we won't be hemmed in deep too often and the ball movement will be quicker. That's the secret of how Hawthorn move the ball so quickly out of the backline, they always have the options as soon as they turn it over.

[DeeSpencer 26,083]

3 hours ago, McQueen said:

DeeSpencer, Watts looks as though he's put a bit of weight on in the photos of recent - particularly muscle.

How's he look in the flesh?

The photo is very generous. He's stronger than last year, but he's not massive. 

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,408]

Farmer wants a wife....Celebrity get me out of here....send help.....

 

anyone....

[dworship 3,342]

5 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

The photo is very generous. He's stronger than last year, but he's not massive. 

I thought his head had been Photoshopped on Spencils body

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,408]

16 minutes ago, stuie said:

Good point, will be interesting to see if it happens again this year given they've done the same kind of punishing offseason.

I think the "figure them out" concept applies to decent teams with a good game plan, whereas everyone knows what Hawthorn are going to do, but it's another thing being able to stop them doing it.

 

The "figure them out" I was being half smart but in all seriousness I'm going early and tipping for Port for the flag. Ryder wasn't there for their prelim loss to the Hawks in 2014. So they've effectively only lost Angus, (and yes a player on the list). I think Hinkley is a terrific coach and now knows what works and what doesnt. 

[Goodvibes 3,596]

1 hour ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

We can only hope it's a one off.

Would of liked to have read that the match simulation started off scrappy before the so called leaders/experienced players stopped the drill and called in all the players, then told them in no uncertain terms that the crap they are currently serving up is not even close to good enough, that we're 9 weeks away from GWS at the G and everybody needs to lift. 

Its not the fact it was scrappy, it's the fact it was tolerated by the players. Didn't Vince just do a piece on the MFC website about the players starting to take ownership of the team, that would of been the perfect opportunity to demonstrate that. It's not always up to the coaches, the St.Kilda game last year being the perfect example. It's called accountability. Players are or should be taught to train how they expect to play. The last two seasons I keep hearing/reading that the Hawthorn leadership took training on a particular day whilst some coaches watched on from the stands and some weren't even there. Imagine us trying to do that. 

Nothing wrong with scrappy match sim. So many club coaches fall into the trap of repeating the same skill drills over and over again because the team looks good doing them and the coach feels like he/she is doing a good job. It takes a little bottle to run sessions that are mainly match sim because to observers it can look very very rough but in the long run it's exactly what the team needs. I love the fact our fitness is now at a point where the majority of our pre-season has involved footballs.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,408]

1 minute ago, Goodvibes said:

Nothing wrong with scrappy match sim. So many club coaches fall into the trap of repeating the same skill drills over and over again because the team looks good doing them and the coach feels like he/she is doing a good job. It takes a little bottle to run sessions that are mainly match sim because to observers it can look very very rough but in the long run it's exactly what the team needs. I love the fact our fitness is now at a point where the majority of our pre-season has involved footballs.

I have no issue with mixing up training.

[dee-luded 2,959]

1 hour ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Most players played rep footy as juniors. Each year brought a new coach and a new game plan. There's only so many ways you can play the game. For the first year players yes there's an element of learning for them as they take the next step to play AFL standard footy, but they are there because they have already pushed themselves this far, high standards must be set. Some of our senior players have the talent but still don't get it.

we're agreeing BbA... what I mean is that this club has been thru the blender recently, & our club confidence & individual confidence is probably still low after another tough year last.

 

so in the scheme of a new training activity this 2016, the boys tried hard but were scrappy,  so I imagine McCartney,  in the interests of list confidence,  allows them another go next session,  before cracking any whips. just yet.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,249]

44 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

The photo is very generous. He's stronger than last year, but he's not massive. 

It's a bit confusing - I read, just prior to the camp I think, that JW had actually shed a couple of Kilos.

BTW. Great work with the reports DSpenc!!

[jnrmac 20,189]

3 hours ago, Deespicable said:

Of those in the lengthy rehab group, I watched Trenners the most - he was out there the longest and clearly he's getting close to resuming. But when he did his run throughs you sensed why he won't be playing in the seniors for a while. He can mark and kick, but he obviously hasn't been able to work yet on his sprinting and given the nature of the injury you can probably understand why - so to answer the question of when he will get back in AFL - I see him as a mid-year prospect. Also I still didn't see him kick a left-footer - assume he's not allowed to yet.

Of the rehab group - Dawes seems closest to rejoining. I'm hoping Oliver and Weideman were on light days. Terlich is getting fitter and could also resume soon. Harry did quite a few sprints with Dawes. 

That surely is enough!

Sounds like we will have two pretty handy players coming back in around September - Melksham and Trenners....

[jnrmac 20,189]

55 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Wouldn't have the foggiest. We've heard Dawes and Terlich were injured up on the GC and Max King before they went up. JKH had tape on a knee, Watts looked fine but I think he gets managed with his groins.

I wish someone would do that for me......

[monoccular 17,575]

2 hours ago, dee-luded said:

we need to lift our expectations on our fit & healthy experienced players.  Dawes certainly in this basket.  if he has a chronic hand, he plays as a fit player, of which he's taking the spot from.

?????

[Bigred 494]

Just wanted to say thanks for the training reports guys. We do not take them for granted. Those of us who have followed the Dees for years, ...and who buy memberships for our kids who don't go anymore, and posters and mugs and commemorative port bottles and those infernal raffle tickets that we hide from our wives (Is that the Melbourne footy club on the phone again??... tell em to bugger off!!) ......but cant get to many games ....let alone training sessions... really appreciate all the silly details and opinions that you present us with each week

Please keep writing, and the more detail the better....

[dee-luded 2,959]

6 minutes ago, monoccular said:

?????

his 'finger injury',  I think it is....  if he takes the field with a chronic bad hand,  which I believe he does,  then he does so with the expectation he's 100% fit,  just as all others who take the field are.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,408]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

I don't think we've got some special innovation like the Clarko Cluster or Weagles Web coming. Our game plan is similar just with a focus on being more aggressive. 

From deep in the backline it's hard to do anything but switch it around and eventually bomb it long to a tall. I mean you can try and run numbers back and handball it around but we won't do that. I think the coaches want to see faster movement and spread so that the open man presents, but McCartney is often emphasising to take the easy option. There isn't a desire to spear kicks in to tight windows from deep in the backline and I don't think there should be.

If we play at a higher pace and with more aggressive pressing up the ground then we won't be hemmed in deep too often and the ball movement will be quicker. That's the secret of how Hawthorn move the ball so quickly out of the backline, they always have the options as soon as they turn it over.

An extension of that is forwards who defend and defenders who have the ability to attack.

[dtrinh 71]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

I don't think we've got some special innovation like the Clarko Cluster or Weagles Web coming. Our game plan is similar just with a focus on being more aggressive. 

From deep in the backline it's hard to do anything but switch it around and eventually bomb it long to a tall. I mean you can try and run numbers back and handball it around but we won't do that. I think the coaches want to see faster movement and spread so that the open man presents, but McCartney is often emphasising to take the easy option. There isn't a desire to spear kicks in to tight windows from deep in the backline and I don't think there should be.

If we play at a higher pace and with more aggressive pressing up the ground then we won't be hemmed in deep too often and the ball movement will be quicker. That's the secret of how Hawthorn move the ball so quickly out of the backline, they always have the options as soon as they turn it over.

I think it will be a shame if our game plan stays too similar. I agree it is important to be more aggressive and move the ball quicker, however we saw last year that when we get into trouble, especially when the other team has some momentum, we usually end up becoming stagnated, switching the ball in our backline and end up turning the ball over down the line. 

I think we need to add another dimension moving forwards though, if that means either more run and carry or trying to vary our forward movements with balls down the line and through the corridor. I remember seeing Jack Watts attempting this centring ball numerous times last year. When it worked, it really opened the fat side and gave our forward movement more space and options. However, it seemed like Watts was the only one willing to have a crack at this and when he turned it over once or twice he lost confidence. 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,909]

DeeSpencer, great reporting as always.

I hope you've got in early and apologised to Jake Spencer for appropriating his name. Your previous two names haven't turned out well for the players concerned which bodes badly for him.

[DeeSpencer 26,083]

2 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

DeeSpencer, great reporting as always.

I hope you've got in early and apologised to Jake Spencer for appropriating his name. Your previous two names haven't turned out well for the players concerned which bodes badly for him.

I pick my names after players who I am not concerned about jinxing, and I'm not really going to tell big Jake that. He did a couple of ok things today although I'm still hoping we don't see much of him, whilst also thinking if Gawny can take a few grabs up forward the extra bench spot might see 2 rucks back in fashion.