5 hours ago, Is Dom Is Good said:

100% agree.

He should have come out and said they will support the players through this suspension but it is important to keep integrity in the AFL. Instead they came out and threw a tantrum about it. Not the first time they have done that either.

This verdict also shows how poor the AFL management are. I just read that there will be a commission on whether Jobe Watson should return his brownlow! Seriously, can they not make one decision without a commission being held? It is pretty straight forward, he was caught CHEATING the year he won therefore he should NOT be illegible!

It is more of a nice way to put it we will be taking your Brownlow. Instead of a big headline saying Jobe Watson has been found guilty, therefore being suspended for the 2016 season and the AFL will be stripping him of the Brownlow medal.

19 hours ago, Good Times Grimes said:

100% membership...

Very similar to North Korea boasting about 100% approval for Kim Jong Un when he's the only candidate in their elections and voting is mandatory.

Yep, the players are all pretty quick to accept the view of the majority, and not even question it. That is partly what happened at Essendon. The fact the PA has a 100% approval, just means this saga could've happened at other clubs just as easily. Essendon players aren't the only ones who are naive and stupid. We've got a 100% of players nodding their heads to the PA - who hasn't acted in their best interests, and is now calling for a WADA overhaul (which isn't in the best interests of the player either).

Interesting listening to Waldron on the radio this morning saying he thought Marsh was a complete fail but didn't find it surprising. He thought they got the wrong guy to run the PA.

13 minutes ago, rjay said:

Interesting listening to Waldron on the radio this morning saying he thought Marsh was a complete fail but didn't find it surprising. He thought they got the wrong guy to run the PA.

And if the AFL really understands how incompetent the AFLPA (and its legal team) has been throughout this saga his contract will not be renewed. 

Yesterday, when Gil said the AFL 'fully accept the CAS decision as their support for anti-doping' (or words like that), it was a subtle way to diffuse Marsh's call for the AFL to walk away from the WADA code.

On all levels Marsh was downright embarrassing yesterday.  He may well be looking for a new job in 18 months time!

7 hours ago, Dees2014 said:

The stance taken by Paul Marsh, head of the players association, on the Essendon verdict, dramatically illustrates why this organisation is about as dysfunctional as Essendon itself. The Association is supposed to look after the interests of ALL AFL players, yet it has consistently pursed through the the last three years the interests of the Essendon 34 instead of championing the health of the AFL's entire playing group. 

I can think of no more important industrial relations issue than ensuring all employees have a safe work environment, yet in spite of Essendon's being condemned by WorkSafe and indeed being heavily fined for it, and CAS condemning it as being unsafe over a two year period, the AFLPA chooses to condemn these judgements and takes no stance about workplace safety in general, or the disgrace of the EFC's behaviour.

Further, shouldn't one of the primary roles of the organisation dedicated to the welfare of the players be to ensure that the AFL fields a fair competition. Instead Marsh has said nothing about a doped up Essendon in 2012/2013 creating an UNFAiIR playing field, thereby substantially affecting the welfare of the players from the other 17 clubs. 

Nothing could illustrate more dramatically how out of touch the AFLPA is when yesterday Marsh called for the AFL to abandon its support for the WADA code. The implications of this action would be the AFL players would have no internationally sanctioned protection and enforcement of safe work places, and would have to rely on the imperfect and dysfunctional rules of the AFL, in much the same way as the American NFL do who operate outside WADA rules. This is not altogether unrelated to the fact that there are scandal, after scandal after scandal in the NFL,  usually related to unrestricted drug use. It should not be something the AFL should aspire to. 

It is about time the AFL players of integrity stood up to Marsh's regime. What was it about "what happens when good men do nothing........."? Scandals like Essendon occur that's what, with catastrophic results, not least for the players.

Agree completely. If I was a clean player I would be scathing at the response by both the AFL and AFLPA. Titus put it beautifully when describing Paul Marsh with a simple picture of a child in a cot spitting the dummy. About time the whole industry grew up and joined the rest of the sporting world with regards to PED's, they are at least 25 years behind as it stands. 

21 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

And if the AFL really understands how incompetent the AFLPA (and its legal team) has been throughout this saga his contract will not be renewed. 

Yesterday, when Gil said the AFL 'fully accept the CAS decision as their support for anti-doping' (or words like that), it was a subtle way to diffuse Marsh's call for the AFL to walk away from the WADA code.

On all levels Marsh was downright embarrassing yesterday.  He may well be looking for a new job in 18 months time!

why wait 18 months?

6 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

why wait 18 months?

My thinking is the AFL don't want to admit he was a bad choice and embarrass themselves and Marsh by sacking him now.  Gil likes to avoid drama and is a softly, softly sort of guy (to his detriment)

A lot easier to let Marsh walk the plank when the dust settles and he goes 'to a better job'.  Think Adrian Anderson.

Just hypothesising :-)

Edited January 13, 20169 yr by Lucifer's Hero

6 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

why wait 18 months?

Probably something to do with backdating, no fault clauses...

1 hour ago, Barra17 said:

It is more of a nice way to put it we will be taking your Brownlow. Instead of a big headline saying Jobe Watson has been found guilty, therefore being suspended for the 2016 season and the AFL will be stripping him of the Brownlow medal.

Gives him the chance to do the right thing and hand it back too. 

2 hours ago, mauriesy said:

"The PA has grown in influence and size to become a respected champion of players and the game ... AFL Players’ is passionate about instilling a sense of integrity ...."

You'd have to wonder after yesterday's effort whether the Players Association is the slightest bit interested in being a "champion of the game", with a "sense of integrity".

They're just another self-interested trade union.

Not much of a union at all. I just looked at their webpage http://www.aflplayers.com.au 

and it looks more like an arm of the AFL than a union representing the interests of players. The stuff under 'About Us' is deplorable bumpf.

49 minutes ago, sue said:

Not much of a union at all. I just looked at their webpage http://www.aflplayers.com.au 

and it looks more like an arm of the AFL than a union representing the interests of players. The stuff under 'About Us' is deplorable bumpf.

....if it looks like a duck and swims like a duck, then it is a duck, I think.

12 hours ago, Dees2014 said:

Here are the current AFLPA board members:

Brad Sewell

Chris Dawes

Brad Sewell

Leigh Montagna

Ted Richards

Murray Brown 

Jimmy Bartell

Matthew Pavlich

Patrick Dangerfield

Will Minson

 

This is the way the AFLPA explains its role on its website:

 

The AFL Players’ Association (AFL Players’) has a 40 year rich history and has entrenched itself as a key stakeholder in the AFL industry. With a 100% uptake of membership, the PA has grown in influence and size to become a respected champion of players and the game. It is the belief of the AFL Players‘ that the core asset of the AFL is its players and central to this, as key stakeholders of the game, players deserve to continue to have their voices heard on all issues pertaining to themselves and the game. As an advocate for its members and the broader community, AFL Players’ is passionate about instilling a sense of integrity and belonging and showcasing these players as people first and athletes second.

 

I would have thought that was a reasonably good quality board, but on the website nothing about governance or formal reponsibilites, which probably means it is not a high priority. Nevertheless, it is difficult to see this group if they were acting as an independent board that they would be so blatantly acting in the interests of Essendon and the AFL.

 

Gill pulling the purse strings again? That's my guess

What a horribly conflicted body this is.

Those who call it a trade union miss a salient point.   What trade union is fully funded by the employer therefore 100 % dependent upon them for their funding?  How can they seriously represent their players in such a situation.    

An excercise in tokenism and spin. 

Land how can they claim to represent the interests of over 15/16 of their members by basically supporting proven cheating by a minority?

On 12/1/2016 at 5:54 AM, Dees2014 said:

The stance taken by Paul Marsh, head of the players association, on the Essendon verdict, dramatically illustrates why this organisation is about as dysfunctional as Essendon itself. The Association is supposed to look after the interests of ALL AFL players, yet it has consistently pursed through the the last three years the interests of the Essendon 34 instead of championing the health of the AFL's entire playing group. 

I can think of no more important industrial relations issue than ensuring all employees have a safe work environment, yet in spite of Essendon's being condemned by WorkSafe and indeed being heavily fined for it, and CAS condemning it as being unsafe over a two year period, the AFLPA chooses to condemn these judgements and takes no stance about workplace safety in general, or the disgrace of the EFC's behaviour.

Further, shouldn't one of the primary roles of the organisation dedicated to the welfare of the players be to ensure that the AFL fields a fair competition. Instead Marsh has said nothing about a doped up Essendon in 2012/2013 creating an UNFAiIR playing field, thereby substantially affecting the welfare of the players from the other 17 clubs. 

Nothing could illustrate more dramatically how out of touch the AFLPA is when yesterday Marsh called for the AFL to abandon its support for the WADA code. The implications of this action would be the AFL players would have no internationally sanctioned protection and enforcement of safe work places, and would have to rely on the imperfect and dysfunctional rules of the AFL, in much the same way as the American NFL do who operate outside WADA rules. This is not altogether unrelated to the fact that there are scandal, after scandal after scandal in the NFL,  usually related to unrestricted drug use. It should not be something the AFL should aspire to. 

It is about time the AFL players of integrity stood up to Marsh's regime. What was it about "what happens when good men do nothing........."? Scandals like Essendon occur that's what, with catastrophic results, not least for the players.

IMO its high time the players became responsible for their actions.  no more cop-outs for poor social behaviors, if they're done for taking Cocaine or Ice, lets see them thru the courts.

enough is enough.

Edited January 14, 20169 yr by dee-luded

I'm not sure which has done more damage to the game, the Players association or the AFL commission.  Can we get rid of both? 

Excellent topic. Without doubt the PA has been and continues to be a source of evil. Their pursuit of free agency - and now to extend it further - alone may yet destroy the game.

This from "News" website  today

" St Kilda CEO yesterday seemed unaware that Jake Carlisle could not  train with or have any contact with the ST Kilda club"

This is the CEO and Former chief of the Players union and he knows this little.

Any wonder the Players are in this hole.

12 minutes ago, old dee said:

This from "News" website  today

" St Kilda CEO yesterday seemed unaware that Jake Carlisle could not  train with or have any contact with the ST Kilda club"

This is the CEO and Former chief of the Players union and he knows this little.

Any wonder the Players are in this hole.

He obviously hasn't been keeping up to date with D'Land Web Site.

34 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said:

He obviously hasn't been keeping up to date with D'Land Web Site.

As the former head of the Players Union you would think he would know the WADA code inside out.

What did he do at the union all those years.

Our game is being run by idiots

10 hours ago, monoccular said:

What a horribly conflicted body this is.

Those who call it a trade union miss a salient point.   What trade union is fully funded by the employer therefore 100 % dependent upon them for their funding?  How can they seriously represent their players in such a situation.    

An excercise in tokenism and spin. 

Land how can they claim to represent the interests of over 15/16 of their members by basically supporting proven cheating by a minority?

I think the Royal Commission into Trade Unions might have provided the names of a few. CFMEU comes to mind, although in that instance the dependency appears to have been reversed.

From Twitter:

AFL ‏@AFL  31m31 minutes ago

Managers of the 34 suspended players met with the AFLPA yesterday to get an initial picture of the ramifications. http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-01-13/managers-of-banned-players-in-hastily-arranged-meeting-with-aflpa …

Given it appears to be the blind leading the blind, I'm not sure if anyone there could actually see the picture. 

 

1 hour ago, old dee said:

As the former head of the Players Union you would think he would know the WADA code inside out.

What did he do at the union all those years.

Our game is being run by idiots

Surely it hasn't taken you this long to work that out!

1 hour ago, old dee said:

As the former head of the Players Union you would think he would know the WADA code inside out.

What did he do at the union all those years.

Our game is being run by idiots

I cannot believe i am reading this!

Almost 4 years to digest the rules on what was going to happen. 

The AFL Commission and the PA need a complete cleanout for the sake of all players..

Players that go on to coach probably have a few brains. Those that go on to allegedly run the AFLPA were probably never the sharpest minds when they played.  They probably rely on the brains at their owners at AFL..... hmmmmm.