JUDGEMENT DAY - THE "BOMBER" 34

[old dee 23,787]

6 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

That's not quite correct od. Fitzpatrick has pointed out that they want to give Jobe an opportunity to be heard as to his arguments why he should be able to keep the medal. Clearly that couldn't happen before today. I think it's a proper process. (And I think the AFL will have no choice but to take his medal from him.)

What they said was they had conferred by phone this morning and then took the decision to hold a meeting in February.

They did no think this was possible before today?

[daisycutter 29,613]

6 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

That's not quite correct od. Fitzpatrick has pointed out that they want to give Jobe an opportunity to be heard as to his arguments why he should be able to keep the medal. Clearly that couldn't happen before today. I think it's a proper process. (And I think the AFL will have no choice but to take his medal from him.)

what's there to hear from him? he has been found guilty of using peds in 2012 which should automatically rule him out for eligibility

the only tricky bit might be concerning the return of earnings directly arising out of the award

[Lucifers Hero 39,739]

This article lists the losers (nearly everyone) and the winners (only WADA.  http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-cas-verdict-no-winners--or-are-there-20160112-gm3xor.html

It misses the biggest winner of all:  All athletes that represent Australia!

Without the CAS verdict our country, all our sports and our athletes will have been tainted with the Essendon cheating brush. Imagine the damage that would have been done to our international sporting reputation.  Imagine the sledging our athletes would have to endure.

The AFL may want to protect the integrity of their two-bit sport (with all sorts of manipulations and spin)

But, today I am very happy that the integrity of all Australian athletes has been protected and when they represent us they can hold their heads high and be proud that cheats will be found out and punished. 

[Ted Lasso 19,511]

What rubbish, the fairest and best player in 2012 cannot also be a player who has been found guilty of drug cheating, for Jobe to keep his brownlow destroys the very meaning of the award in the first place, it shouldn't be up for discussion.

[monoccular 17,425]

50 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

Surely Hird and Reid should bear the brunt of this and receive lifetime bans. Anything less would be unjust.

But, as we know, AFL and Justice are not often used in the same sentence.  

Hird's obstruction is what has drawn this out, and his arrogance is what started it all.

Reid failed in his primary duty of care to his patients.  It is quite clear that his duty is to them and not to his employer / paymaster   Horribly conflicted.  The honorable thing would have been to resign  

29 minutes ago, DavidNeitz9 said:

Mine does not, they deliberately hid what injections they had, no symppathy for the players

It seems from the statement that they deliberately lied when asked about supplements at their regular ASADA testing.   If so they are very lucky to get away with 2Y, with 1 already somehow served  

16 minutes ago, rjay said:

Good to hear "Dill the Likeable" is having a commission hearing (code for run a poll) to decide whether Jobe keeps the Brownlow....they don't want to make a knee-jerk decision.

mmmm....I think they've had 3 years to think about this one.

Maybe they have Nark Neeld as an advisor - " didn't see that coming ". 

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

11 minutes ago, old dee said:

How can the CEO be impartial 

when he keeps saying he has Huge  sympathy for the players

Had EFC gotten away with it, and won a flag in 2012, or 2013, would Gil have had huge sympathy for the players of the runner up club?

[Willmoy1947 4,085]

4 hours ago, Elusive Tunbridge said:

 

Jobs will be found...

Looking for the spreadsheet!

[old dee 23,787]

6 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

given milkshake doesn't get paid and we get no top-up player and can promote a rookie (presumably michie, who is reportedly already on his normal wage) we will be $400k short on our cap. will the afl let us stay short or do we have to distribute it to the other players? an extra $400k would be good for our p&l account.

dc  they way I heard it from Gil was that the existing EFC players payments for this year will still be in their total player payments. That sounds like they will still be paid.

not a bad sanction you get a " Hird payment"  and a 12  month holiday.

[monoccular 17,425]

1 minute ago, Peter Griffen said:

What rubbish, the fairest and best player in 2012 cannot also be a player who has been found guilty of drug cheating, for Jobe to keep his brownlow destroys the very meaning of the award in the first place, it shouldn't be up for discussion.

Exactly.  It is not even as if it was in a season when he may not have been jabbed. 

There should be no discussion on this.

More interestingly there should be serious discussions regarding Hird's Charlie - he has brought the game into disrepute by his own stubborn arrogant actions. Unbelievable for a "great of the game".  How did he recover from his mystery foot injury??

[Lucifers Hero 39,739]

3 minutes ago, rjay said:

Sorry 'La Dee', it's not Jobes decision. He can't go a prove innocence, he's been found guilty.

My guess is they are waiting for him to hand it back, I think it's a pity because he does seem a really good bloke.

He will fall on his sword so they won't have to make the tough decision, another win to "Dill the Likeable" would be my bet.

I had the same reaction 'rjay'.  Whatever his mistakes in 2012 Jobe has been honest, courageous and dignified over the last 3 years.  He would not want the stigma of this to forever cloud his brownlow victory.  The sad thing is he may well have won it without the supplements.  We will never know.

I also expect him to hand it back before the AFL meets.

[binman 42,903]

Slobbo says ' FEW people would have predicted today’s guilty outcome".

Really? He mustn't read Demonland. 

 

[nutbean 8,838]

I have always been in players camp - when your coach/administration stands up in front of the entire squad and says " we will be doing a supplement program - don't worry its all kosher" ( paraphrasing is mine) - team first and foremost dictates you would have accepted this. It did strike me as odd that not one parent or manager questioned or queried what was transpiring but not that the players didn't. I have spoken to a couple of players and they have said that they have on many occasions being given a pain killer or something of that kind  by the club doctor without asking what is was. As a player, you are conditioned not to question "the team".

 

However after reading this   “Of 30 ASADA testing missions during the period in question, none of the 18 players tested declared the injections, despite being asked each time whether they had taken any supplements.”my sympathy has gone down the gurgler. I fully expect that if the players thought everything they were taking was kosher then they would have had no problem answering the above questions truthfully.  Being asked 30 times whether they are taking supplements and 30 times answering no....sorry...no sympathy for the players at all.

[Green Demon 822]

Australia's image, as an honest sporting nation, is going to take a big hit.

One of the two main Irish sports sites has the story:

http://www.balls.ie/aussie-rules-2/34-players-have-bans-upheld-in-huge-afl-doping-case/321265

The BBC is running it:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/35288575

 

The comments on this website will be interesting, once they publish the story (probably around 7pm, Melbourne time).

http://www.the42.ie/

 

This Twitter account covers drugs in sport - mostly covering doping in cycling - there will be plenty of discussion here, in the next few days:

https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=digger%20forum&src=typd

 

It is naive to think that Australians don't cheat. It would be nice to think it is a very small minority of individuals, not at an institutional level. It is important that Essendon and other dopers fail, and get punished. Like others, I have my doubts about some of the premiership winning teams, of the past 10 years.

 

[nutbean 8,838]

James Hird's response according to Titus O'Reily - the man is a gem

 

James Hird: WADA used wrong facts

The decision today by WADA is a terrible miscarriage of justice. Probably Easily the worst in history.

When I said I hoped 2016 would be a ‘year of facts’, I was hoping they would be my facts, the ones that suit my worldview.

Unfortunately, WADA have chosen to look at all the facts, many which I have chosen to discount. I like to think it’s the facts I reject that make mine the best.

My facts have been hand selected, like I’m a ‘facts sommelier’, picking facts carefully and thoughtfully while discarding the ones I don’t like.

Being a facts sommelier gives you a far better outcome, a much more palatable one too.

WADA are like some ‘facts Dan Murphy’s’. Just every fact in the world under one roof, with no careful eye on which ones are completely unpalatable.

That’s why we’ve ended up with this result. Every fact has been sampled leaving a bad aftertaste. Like when teenagers make rocket fuel using whatever alcohol is in their parent’s cupboard. Sure, you get a result but it’s rarely a good one.

Is this the world we want to live in? Where unpalatable truths win over carefully crafted narratives?

It’s time to wake up.

The barbarians are at the gate and today we got a glimpse of what it will be like if they get inside.

[Chris 2,892]

12 minutes ago, old dee said:

dc  they way I heard it from Gil was that the existing EFC players payments for this year will still be in their total player payments. That sounds like they will still be paid.

not a bad sanction you get a " Hird payment"  and a 12  month holiday.

I am fairly sure the players can not be paid. If they are paid they are under the employ of the club and that is no allowed under the ban. What the AFL may do is say what the payments were to be will be included in the cap. This will give the dons a nice cash injection over the next 10 months or so. 

[Chris 2,892]

Another ripper from Titus O'Reilly.

AFLPA's media conference.

[Chris 2,892]

Would be good to see a statement from the club about Milkshake. StKilda were on the front foot and released one quite a while ago about Carlisle.  

[Wilson7 2,669]

More lies from the players, they are a disgrace, up to their necks in it.

[Pates 9,660]

2 minutes ago, Chris said:

Would be good to see a statement from the club about Milkshake. StKilda were on the front foot and released one quite a while ago about Carlisle.  

I was about to say the exact same thing. He was kinda a big recruit (what did we give up for him?), I would like to know what the club's position is going forward with him. They must've looked at worst case scenario options.

[Vandenberger With The Lot 238]

24 minutes ago, Peter Griffen said:

What rubbish, the fairest and best player in 2012 cannot also be a player who has been found guilty of drug cheating, for Jobe to keep his brownlow destroys the very meaning of the award in the first place, it shouldn't be up for discussion.

Mark my words, Jobe will keep his Brownlow. The betting company money coming into the AFL will see to it.

[jnrmac 20,058]

So lets say each of the 34 sues the club for loss of reputation, negligence and damages. Plus others affected by this..

At $2m a player thats a big hole of over $70m the club will have to find. On top of the estimated $7m spent to date....

Which sponsors are going to fund that? Which sponsors want to be tarnished with that brush?

They are in one deep pile of their own do do....

Edited January 12, 2016 by jnrmac

[nutbean 8,838]

1 minute ago, Raul Poos said:

Mark my words, Jobe will keep his Brownlow. The betting company money coming into the AFL will see to it.

I cannot see how it is possible.

(however consistent logical decision making has not been the AFL's strong suite to date)

[Red and Blue realist 2,051]

28 minutes ago, old dee said:

dc  they way I heard it from Gil was that the existing EFC players payments for this year will still be in their total player payments. That sounds like they will still be paid.

not a bad sanction you get a " Hird payment"  and a 12  month holiday.

I'd hate if one of the 'other' clubs in this get caught out under the salary cap, if we for example still have to include milkshake's payments under our cap, then the rookie we nominate gets match payments that are in excess of the cap, surely there'll be some relief. I know that in a normal season rookies get elevated and the club would make allowances, but this could potentially be for the whole season, and still have the normal season events. 

[Wilson7 2,669]

4 minutes ago, Red and Blue realist said:

I'd hate if one of the 'other' clubs in this get caught out under the salary cap, if we for example still have to include milkshake's payments under our cap, then the rookie we nominate gets match payments that are in excess of the cap, surely there'll be some relief. I know that in a normal season rookies get elevated and the club would make allowances, but this could potentially be for the whole season, and still have the normal season events. 

The AFL has said players can't be paid, that's 400k extra in our salary cap

[sue 9,102]

As I understand what McDevitt said, the AFL Tribunal would have been aware of:

  “Of 30 ASADA testing missions during the period in question, none of the 18 players tested declared the injections, despite being asked each time whether they had taken any supplements.

Leaving aside all the other reasons why they might have come to a different conclusion than CAS, what on earth did the Tribunal make of those 30 silences?    Surely that should be enough to have tipped the balance even if they couldn't prove the stuff ordered had been injected etc. 

I'd love to hear a justification from the legal minds on here who had defended the integrity of the Tribunal.   Looks to me like they bent over more than backwards to get the players off.