Breakfast With Bails

[Redleg 40,895]

21 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

wasn't the "AFL Football CEO" you refer to actually the " General Manager of Football Operations" (Adrian Anderson)

Of course the "Acting CEO" (Gillom McLachlan) was the one who authorized Anderson's inquiry, but he didn't lose his job

confused over titles

Yes, correct title was GM of FO,  but it was Anderson.

[beelzebub 23,347]

3 hours ago, iv'a worn smith said:

Makes me just a touch angry really.

There are no words for how much I despise both Anderson and Mclachlan

[nutbean 8,838]

What angers me is the selective nature of what the AFL decides to go hard on.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Of course I am not saying DB's fate would have been any different had he been treated differently by the minions of the AFL, but certainly, he was made a scapegoat and deserved some more dignity.  The ole karma bus has a habit of taking the odd detour to collect a few that were not expecting it.  Perhaps, it might be just worth keeping an eye on things over the next few months or so.

[Dockett 32 1,239]

Been done to death unfortunately and I too believe Dean Bailey was a very decent person . IMO we ended up the patsy, with DB vilified by a couple of young ''wet behind the ears"" self promoting types who were given far to much rope at a time when their knackers hadn't even dropped. Politically Gill came out of it ok didn't he?  Still believe we were discriminated against in terms of other clubs in similar positions and still wrestle with why it wasn't pulled up by those at the top.

[jnrmac 20,058]

3 hours ago, Redleg said:

Would you take his word for it, we both work at the same place? No, I haven't spoken to him about it.

It was widely known in the industry, by people I have spoken to, that Demetriou was furious that he was being embarrassed by the inquiry, that went against his oft quoted public comments, that what was done by us and other clubs, was within the rules.

He was overseas when Andersen launched the inquiry. On his return he was bombarded by the media, as to how something he said was legal, was now the subject of an inquiry.

Do you recall soon after the inquiry was over and the media savaged the result, that Andersen just suddenly left the AFL and on his own admission, had no job lined up. Do you think that was strange?

IMO he was allowed to leave by Demetriou, before he was sacked.

Other than what people who should know have told me, I don't have a signed confession.

Oh OK you have joined the dots...no probs just checking you weren't quoting facts.

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

Will never forget Bails final presser for the MFC

Made me feel sick and ashamed at what had been done by ( you know who)

[Lucifers Hero 39,737]

3 hours ago, iv'a worn smith said:

Of course I am not saying DB's fate would have been any different had he been treated differently by the minions of the AFL, but certainly, he was made a scapegoat and deserved some more dignity.  The ole karma bus has a habit of taking the odd detour to collect a few that were not expecting it.  Perhaps, it might be just worth keeping an eye on things over the next few months or so.

...in which direction is that good ole karma bus heading?  PM me if you prefer.

[Redleg 40,895]

2 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Will never forget Bails final presser for the MFC

Made me feel sick and ashamed at what had been done by ( you know who)

Agree. It was a sad day for Bails and an even sadder one for the club, that really let him down.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Not really sure LH.  As I am not sure if the Hun has an "exclusive" on the excerpts of the book.  I am not a subscriber to the Hun,  so I can't read the article as it is a secured link.  But it does surprise me that the rest of the mainstream media have not been right on to this.  DB was gracious when he was sacked by the MFC.  I have just watched his last press conference after the MFC sacking on youtube and I could not get over how free of anger he seemed to be.  Most of us mere mortals would have been frothing at the mouth had it happened to us.

 

All I am saying is DB was scapegoated and surely someone else was culpable, yet whoever they are??? seem to get away with it with their reputations relatively intact.  I guess all I am doing is hoping that those who perhaps deserve it, get their comeuppance on the karma bus.

[Lucifers Hero 39,737]

26 minutes ago, iv'a worn smith said:

Not really sure LH.  As I am not sure if the Hun has an "exclusive" on the excerpts of the book.  I am not a subscriber to the Hun,  so I can't read the article as it is a secured link.  But it does surprise me that the rest of the mainstream media have not been right on to this.  DB was gracious when he was sacked by the MFC.  I have just watched his last press conference after the MFC sacking on youtube and I could not get over how free of anger he seemed to be.  Most of us mere mortals would have been frothing at the mouth had it happened to us.

 

All I am saying is DB was scapegoated and surely someone else was culpable, yet whoever they are??? seem to get away with it with their reputations relatively intact.  I guess all I am doing is hoping that those who perhaps deserve it, get their comeuppance on the karma bus.

Thanks iva.  And totally agree he was a scapegoat.  The 'culprits' got some comeuppance as part of the clean out of the club. 

I remember the press conf very clearly.  It was left up to a very very sick Jimmy to make the announcement.  It was distressing to see him struggle like that...I cried all the way through it.

What was equally distressing was that Dean was left to front the media on his own, in civvies, no sponsor backboards, no support etc.  He deserved so much better.  He deserved respect. To abandon him at the press conf like that was one of the clubs shameful moments.

I hope the book is a great success in and out of the footy world.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Lucifer's Hero

[daisycutter 29,613]

2 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Thanks iva.  And totally agree he was a scapegoat.  The 'culprits' got some comeuppance as part of the clean out of the club. 

I remember the press conf very clearly.  It was left up to a very very sick Jimmy to make the announcement.  It was distressing to see him struggle like that...I cried all the way through it.

What was equally distressing was that Dean was left to front the media on his own, in civvies, no sponsor backboards, no support etc.  He deserved so much better.  He deserved respect. To abandon him at the press conf like that was one of the clubs shameful moments.

I hope the book is a great success in and out of the footy world.

i think iva is alluding to some other person or persons who volunteered "evidence" (think vault)

[Guest]

I'm not saying anything I haven't said before but clearly history is a lot kinder to Bails than it appeared to what it would be at the time.
I, for one, was howling for blood at the time. I now regret that stance deeply. 
That final media conference should be etched in the memories of all who love the MFC. A bitter harvest would proceed to be reaped over the next 2 years but that media conference said loud and clear that we were a terrible club.

How Dean was treated that day was disgusting and should never be forgotten. The reason should be not so we can continue to wallow in our self loathing. It should be remembered to make sure that we never sink that low again...

[rjay 24,917]

1 hour ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

I'm not saying anything I haven't said before but clearly history is a lot kinder to Bails than it appeared to what it would be at the time.
I, for one, was howling for blood at the time. I now regret that stance deeply. 
That final media conference should be etched in the memories of all who love the MFC. A bitter harvest would proceed to be reaped over the next 2 years but that media conference said loud and clear that we were a terrible club.

How Dean was treated that day was disgusting and should never be forgotten. The reason should be not so we can continue to wallow in our self loathing. It should be remembered to make sure that we never sink that low again...

Spot on 'Colin'...

[Lucifers Hero 39,737]

I just came across this article: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/dean-bailey-only-accepted-tanking-ban-after-threats-from-gillon-mclachlan-book-alleges/story-fnp04d70-1227636945677?from=herald+sun_rss

Really staggered to read:  'DEAN Bailey only accepted his 2013 tanking penalty after AFL official Gillon McLachlan threatened him with a life ban from football.'

And Dean's response is to be admired:  '“Hey, Gill, I’m not a cheat. I know that for sure and I won’t pretend that just for you to save face. So nah, we’re not going to accept. Sharpen your pencil and come back to us, pal.” 

Dean sticking up for himself and his principles would have meant a life ban and him not being able to provide for his family.  So, he took the rap.

The article makes some startling revelations about Gil's maneuverings and shenanigans but this isn't the place to discuss them.  Suffice to say Gil can be a nasty piece of work.

[Whispering_Jack 30,019]

Ten seasons ago that I made the trip to Brisbane for a Saturday night game against the Lions at the Gabba. I was reasonably confident that Melbourne could win the game - we had been playing well and they were on the slide at the end of their golden era but, as it turned out, we got whipped.

I remember a discussion I had with a fellow Demon fan as we waited outside the venue where the post match "celebrations" were to be held. Despite our being one of the potential finals teams, we seemed to be going nowhere as a club. Our brand was hardly inspirational (Demetriou pointed out a little later that we stood for nothing and I recall a "crisis meeting" at the Bentleigh Club  attracted a paltry 45 people). Our financial issues were well documented - after all, we had to sell our "home" games to the Lions, and our coach doubled up as our main spruiker. Our list was starting to fray at the edges, we had no leadership succession plan in place and once Craig Cameron left, our recruiting went to the dogs. 

 

Within 2 years, Daniher was gone and the club eventually replaced him for the following season by Dean Bailey. We were a poor club and chose our new coach, partly on the basis of cost. That's some of the background to his arrival at the club.

 

I don't believe Bailey was a good coach. A good bloke and a decent person - yes but he never approached greatness as a coach, nor was he allowed to do so partly because of the circumstances of the club during his tenure and partly because of his own limitations and, in my view, inability to develop his team through a period during which there were some significant changes in the way the game was being played.

 

I will buy the book and am happy to do so, particularly if the proceeds go towards assisting his family and I will read it with great interest to see if it matches my thoughts about the difficulties both he and his successor experienced in attempting to coach the players during a tumultuous period for the club. 

 

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

I've only just read the article in the Hun.

My contempt for the hypocrisy and arbitrariness of the AFL is at an all time high.

Classic AFL. Crush the soft target, but protect your self interest at all costs.

[Ted Lasso 19,507]

I often wonder where the club would be right now had we sacked CS and not bails after 186, i get that a 186 point loss is impossible to ignore, and he was already under review but i thought we were good for finals the next year, perhaps it's a measure of just how bad Neeld was, or just how broken the club was.

[Jaded No More 68,903]

All [censored] aside, we haven't won as many games in a season since Dean Bailey. Just saying.

 

[Alotta 88]

23 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

 

 

Within 2 years, Daniher was gone and the club eventually replaced him for the following season by Dean Bailey. We were a poor club and chose our new coach, partly on the basis of cost. 

 

What is the evidence upon which you base this claim?

Dean Bailey was appointed because he was considered (by a clear margin) to be the best candidate for the job.

History was to show that an unsuccessful candidate together with mates Stynes, McLardy, Schwab and Lyon were to heap on Dean the most shameful indignity I have ever witnessed in a blighted lifetime of following our once great Club.

[Whispering_Jack 30,019]

8 hours ago, Alotta said:

What is the evidence upon which you base this claim?

Dean Bailey was appointed because he was considered (by a clear margin) to be the best candidate for the job.

History was to show that an unsuccessful candidate together with mates Stynes, McLardy, Schwab and Lyon were to heap on Dean the most shameful indignity I have ever witnessed in a blighted lifetime of following our once great Club.

I have no doubt that Dean was appointed "because he was considered (by a clear margin) to be the best candidate for the job" but that's not inconsistent with my proposition. We were a poor club at the time and didn't have $1½m to splash around along with the AFL's full support in looking for the best and most experienced coach available as PJ had when the club appointed Paul Roos. Nor we we considered a destination club for coaches at the time. I have no conclusive proof for the claim but I expect available resources play a role when seeking out applicants for any job at any club and many would consider it fiscally irresponsible to do otherwise.

I can only think of one other candidate at the time and that was Kevin Sheedy who most likely would have come with a higher price tag. Many would have been happy with his appointment - I think he would have been a poor choice.

As to your assessment of what history was to show, that's very much a matter of interpretation. I think the jury's a long way from being out and while I agree that Bailey was treated shabbily, there was no shortage of shamefulness and indignity in the way in which many people behaved during that period and Bails wasn't the only one badly done by over the journey. At least he got almost 4 years of tenure which is more than many other coaches get in the industry.

I'm hoping the book throws some more light on the subject and I might come back in time with my thoughts after I read it (I have a few others to read first though). I'm just thankful that most of the ghosts of that era have now gone and that the club has moved on from those days.

[Trisul 664]

17 hours ago, Jaded said:

All [censored] aside, we haven't won as many games in a season since Dean Bailey. Just saying.

 

With faaaar less FD budget, a fraying list, minimal player leadership and a poor recruiting team.

 

[Alotta 88]

On 10 December 2015 at 7:39 AM, Whispering_Jack said:

We were a poor club at the time and didn't have $1½m to splash around along with the AFL's full support in looking for the best and most experienced coach available as PJ had when the club appointed Paul Roos. Nor we we considered a destination club for coaches at the time. I have no conclusive proof for the claim but I expect available resources play a role when seeking out applicants for any job at any club and many would consider it fiscally irresponsible to do otherwise.

 

When you say that available resources played a role in the selection of Dean Bailey you are wrong. Plain and simple. Fact not opinion.

When you say you have "no conclusive proof" for your claim I put it to you that you have no proof whatsoever.

Days of AFL funded overpaid $1.5 million coaches were years in the future. As is usual with these appointments discussions about salary were undertaken only after the preferred candidate was identified. The amount Dean could command as a rookie coach was modest by industry standards in 2007 and entirely affordable for MFC. After all, we had made a profit in each of the previous 3 years and were to make a profit in 2007, the year of Dean's appointment.

There was no potential coach we did not approach because of considerations of affordability. There was no available coach who did not pursue an interest in the opportunity out of consideration of the available salary.

As for not being a destination club, Hardwick clearly disagreed.

 

 

Edited December 12, 2015 by Alotta

[Blistering 540]

2 hours ago, Alotta said:

There was no potential coach we did not approach 

As for not being a destination club, Hardwick clearly disagreed.

So you are absolutely certain that no potential candidate for a coaching role at the time was put off from applying for the job by the club's poor financial position or lack of facilities? 

[Alotta 88]

No interested candidate contacted the Club and did not pursue their interest based on any consideration of remuneration.

This isn't about Club resources. It's about WJ's assertion that  "We were a poor club and chose our new coach, partly on the basis of cost".

It suggests that Dean was a bargain basement purchase - K-Mart not DJs - the Scotch we'd rather pay for not the Scotch we'd rather drink. It demeans Bails. He was the best money could buy and we were very lucky to get him.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Alotta