Chris..we are exactly what we are 5th last

5th last with a team with no depth, plenty of first year players running around and probably an average of 4 of our top 22 missing every week. The potential is there and things are brighter than 5th last would suggest.

5th last with a team with no depth, plenty of first year players running around and probably an average of 4 of our top 22 missing every week. The potential is there and things are brighter than 5th last would suggest.

no offence..but the suggestion of a broken record comes to mind.

We should have advanced. But we 'hover'

Much money.. Much

resources. . We're still down the bottom.

This potential should be materialising by now...no ?

no offence..but the suggestion of a broken record comes to mind.

We should have advanced. But we 'hover'

Much money.. Much

resources. . We're still down the bottom.

This potential should be materialising by now...no ?

Not really to the extent you think. I think we have improved our best markedly, our worst hasn't though and that is a problem. We lack consistency but that isn't surprising or unexpected.

To me so far under Roos we have caught the bottom of the pack, we were miles behind it two years ago. We are essentially were the saints and dogs bottomed out. If we don't rise with a faster pace next year I would be worried, probably not finals but top 10 would be my expectation.

Sheeit 325 odd posts about a polarising player!?

Gee we ' Gild the lilly'

Well ,, Lets hope for all our sakes

MFC, JT and of course all supporters that

He becomes a great MFC player!

Toumpas, Stretch & Hunt are the only 2nd or 3rd year Demons he represents

Riley.

Chris i fervently hope you're on the dollar here. It concerns me when those at the helm start accusing those that have no real influence. Ie. The negativity bullshlt.

It's all about the club, the fd, the players.

What do i hear: players aren't /can't listen. What does that mean ?

For mine...deep seated problems. ..still.

For mime...a list that no where near adequate.

Roos et all have work cut out. ..but surely well compensated.

Reality is despite whate we think...we aren't that much further along from when Neeld departed.

Fd needs to perform miracles.

Problem is the ingredients aren't there. So how do we progress ?

But it's all good..so no probs

Riley.

i think he's gone.

Your thoughts ?

And I'm not being adversarial. .I'm asking.

He's one sided...like Jordie. No place anymore for such.

Been a fan ! has had limited opps but I would give him another year!

My eyes are bleeding.

Been a fan ! has had limited opps but I would give him another year!

who we talking about ?

who we talking about ?

I assume Riley

Been a fan ! has had limited opps but I would give him another year!

Yeah lets keep holding on to [censored] spuds hey picket

[censored] me dead. He is a giant SPUD! Get over it mate.

Been a fan ! has had limited opps but I would give him another year!

Riley is as [censored] as Toumpas. [censored] I say.

Riley and Toumpas don't deserve to run out along side our Champion Lynden Dunn. It's an embarrassment

I keep hearing about this 2 year deal but nothing has been released by the club.

Smoke and mirrors?

Riley and Toumpas don't deserve to run out along side our Champion Lynden Dunn. It's an embarrassment

one of the oddsst posts for a while.

I think i get the gist but Dunn is also this side of average. Hes ok..not great. That's a sign of our problem. ..surely

Sorry, just to make an addendum to an earlier post now that the teams have been named:

The following are injured, or added to last week's 22

Dawes, Frost, Kent, Lumumba, Pedersen, Petracca, Trengove, Tyson, Vandenberg PLUS White, Harmes, Brayshaw, Kennedy-Harris

That makes a total of 35 'in the mix' at the moment

This means everyone at Casey this week are 'ranked' 36th best at the club, meaning they are the bottom 9 players on the list including rookies. This is where Toumpas is currently at. The others in this unfortunate group are King, Fitzpatrick, Riley, Terlich, Bail, McKenzie, Hunt and Jamar.

I'm neither for or against JT at this stage but can anyone argue with this logic?

No

thats filthy

I see them red and blue.

I am a realist. I dont sugar coat or accept bullshlt.

You're welcome to whatever floats your boat.

We're just humming along as a successful club aren't we...ooh Yeah

If we can't rise with the help of Roos and Jackson, who even the most skeptical of our skeptics would agree come from a successful club background, then we are well and truly doomed.

How about trusting them (and their associates of course) collectively to make "the right decision" on our list management and see what happens. I am sure they know more than any of us what is going on with Toumpas' body and mind and whether he is worth hanging on to.

I agree he is not ranked very highly AT THE MOMENT.

However, he is ahead of the following: M Jones, Terlich, Riley, Mckenzie, Bail, Hunt in the midfield stakes. That is 6 players who should go before him.

If this trade period someone offered up something ridiculous (e.g. a first round draft pick) then I'd entertain trading him. But if we aren't getting much then those 6 need to go first.

I agree he is not ranked very highly AT THE MOMENT.

However, he is ahead of the following: M Jones, Terlich, Riley, Mckenzie, Bail, Hunt in the midfield stakes. That is 6 players who should go before him.

If this trade period someone offered up something ridiculous (e.g. a first round draft pick) then I'd entertain trading him. But if we aren't getting much then those 6 need to go first.

.

And of those it is really only Hunt who could be considered as having "untried and untapped potential".

Riley.

Viney, Tyson & Vince!

(Also Trengove who is effectively a new player!)

Wow I go watch a little TV and about four jugulars have been severed.

We are all taking about a team that will be fifth last in a comp of 18.

We are there because we have a lot of players who are not up to taking us higher.

IMO Toumpas is probably one of a dozen in that lot.

If he is around in 2016 will he improve?

I hope so but doubt it.

That is what I think.

That was a very quick bit of research but happy to do more.

My point is if this club can't develop players like Toumpas then we are screwed.

If Toumpas can't develop Toumpas he's screwed. How about the player take some ownership ? There's a novel idea.

And by all means, do more research.

Deanox...how long ?? and at what cost ?

A player is an asset or a liability . Goes to the old chestnut what isnt part of the solution is part of the problem.

My whole view of a team is clinical. I take personality etc totally out of the equation as its useless really in attributing worth.

If a player isnt performing to ability and has possible value if put towards another player who can then to me thats the players worth.

BB your views are so black and white I'm surprised you don't follow Collingwood!

There is not a team or recruiter in the comp who can identify 4-6 ready to impact types from every draft every year. There are too many variables at play like who is available at a given pick, team deficiencies etc.

The overriding objective is to make the team better. Are we likely to get sufficient value from delisting or trading Toumpas to outweigh his potential future upside? Probably not. In actual fact, he would likely be replaced by a younger, more speculative, less ready to go type.