POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 20

[jumbo returns 6,741]

10 NQRs played yesterday.

[Tough Kent 2,137]

Our lack of depth was sorely tested. We can't replace Tyson, Salem, Kent, Frost, vandenBerg, and even Petracca. We have a solid 25 at the moment and some developing kids.

It doesn't help when one team is up and about and playing for a top 4 spot and the other one has little to play for and looking for the end of the season.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

What frustrates me the most is we have good wins, yet we don't seem to learn from those wins and build on them.

Every week it's back to square one.

[Wilbur 447]

The umpiring was absolutely #(%*ing putrid. So many rule changes have started to undermine this game.

[praha 11,240]

Very lucky it was only 100 points. They were goalless in the third. It could very easily have been 120-140 point loss. They were that much better today.

Body language from experienced players was pathetic.

Jones, Dunn, Garland, Watts, Howe, Lumumba. Absolutely pathetic. Jones' body language at the coin toss shaped the day. He didn't want to be there.

Also, Howe is a hack. He's gone. Late in the first quarter he had the ball in the back pocket. Was running it out casually and McDonald was behind him yelling, "you're hot, you're hot". I could hear it from the stands. Howe completely ignored him and got tackled.

These blokes hate playing with one another, and it shows.

Until every player from the Bailey and Daniher years are gone, we will linger. McDonald is probably the exception.

[pitmaster 3,578]

Very depressing but they have clearly been ahead of us for years.

In 2013 they won 8 games while we were winning 2 and last year they picked up 7 wins while we had 4.

They also this year have shown new coach syndrome where a change at the top reinvigorates a group that has a good blend of experience and youth.

It's happened many times when a new coach comes in on a solid base - in our case think Northey coming in after Barassi - Daniher after Balme (who didn't really build anything but maintained what Northey had left).

[Dr. Gonzo 24,305]

Pitmaster, we beat this mob earlier in the year by 40 points. It's all between the ears and unfortunately our players are still mentally weak.

[Demi Dee 578]

Jobe Watson to the Dees have any traction?

[titan_uranus 25,045]

Appalling performance, truly woeful. The worst bit really is the third quarter showed what could have happened if we tried harder the rest of the game. We were clearly capable of running, transitioning and scoring, and we were able to stop them doing that too in the third.

The fact they scored 24 goals in three quarters is an embarrassment. Doesn't matter who you are or who the opponent is. That's 186-esque.

Not a lot of use in singling out players but Lumumba was insipid, must be dropped this week. It's all well and good to defend him by noting he tries to create movement but he's damaging the side while trying it. We'd be better off without his destructiveness.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Appalling performance, truly woeful. The worst bit really is the third quarter showed what could have happened if we tried harder the rest of the game. We were clearly capable of running, transitioning and scoring, and we were able to stop them doing that too in the third.

Exactly, and it started with applying pressure which is something we didn't do in the other quarters.

The thing about pressure is it requires no skill or talent, only effort. The ability of Melbourne players to pick and choose when they make an effort is second to none.

[praha 11,240]

Very depressing but they have clearly been ahead of us for years.

In 2013 they won 8 games while we were winning 2 and last year they picked up 7 wins while we had 4.

They also this year have shown new coach syndrome where a change at the top reinvigorates a group that has a good blend of experience and youth.

It's happened many times when a new coach comes in on a solid base - in our case think Northey coming in after Barassi - Daniher after Balme (who didn't really build anything but maintained what Northey had left).

I don't see how them being ahead in development makes them a 100-point better side. I didn't expect a win based purely on the face that they're playing confident football, but I expected a good contest because despite them being "ahead of us", we have matched up well against them the last few years. We smashed them in 2013 excluding the last quarter and two losses last year could have easily been wins. Earlier this year we beat them by 40 points. They were always going to win yesterday but it wasn't that we lost, it's how we lost.

It's always how we lose. We either put ourselves in winnable situations against similarly placed teams and then lose due to comical breakdowns, or simply play the defeatist and get pounded.

Goodwin's comments at half-time summed it up. "I just want them to tackle." That's a directive an ubder-10s coach gives. But funnily enough, in Melbourne's case yesterday it was needed.

Development has little to do with it. Our experienced players set the tone yesterday and we lost by 100 points.

It has nothing to do with where the Bulldogs are on the ladder. We shouldn't be losing games by 100 points anymore.

Edited August 16, 2015 by praha

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

Jobe Watson to the Dees have any traction?

Can he bring his "supplements" with him?

[chook fowler 19,551]

Against my nature I'll concentrate on the positives:

McDonald - back to his best despite a couple of classic turnovers

Jack Watts - playing with more aggression and getting more of the ball. Still has jaw dropping brain fades.

Viv Michie - looked a player for the first time this year

James Harmes - plays with energy and aggression and has some toe.

Hogan - 3 goals out of 8 with few opportunities. Nuff said

ANB - didn't have a huge game but showed enough.

There were plenty of negatives and most are self evident but I can't help but give a special mention to Lumumba. Whatever he had has gone and has become a horrible, horrible player. The Prince of turnovers.

Edited August 16, 2015 by chook fowler

[DemonOX 8,801]

Geez I'm glad the boys wanted to finish off the season STRONGLY cause I would hate to c what would happen if they didn't!

[jackaub 1,402]

The Melbourne culture hasn't changed one little bit. The players are just not interested in playing to win. They are very well paid plodders who choose weekly to put in or not. They are killing Roos and Goodwin

I cannot stand watching them at the moment There are no excuses- Ohh we have the flu ,Ohhh we have general soreness, Ohhhhhhh the Coach doesn't like me! The team should be made to sit down and watch the womens' game and watch how you simply play footy

Take the game on, contest sheppard ,tackle, compete.

This group is not a team dont play like a team and obviously has major problems un- fixable by allegedly the best coach going around

We continue to look like a joke!

[McQueen 17,867]

Team football.

We're shithouse at it.

That is all.

[praha 11,240]

H has zero defensive game, which is ironic as he's a defender. He's a line breaker but with such little movement forward of the ball, he struggles. I wonder how he'd go forward. He's a massive liability down back especially against quick teams, because he slams the ball forward and it comes back in. He's like a poor man's Brent Moloney.

[Radar Detector 1,347]

H is really no better or worse than he was at Collingwood and he is now in an inferior side. Surprised people think his performance would be any different from what we've seen.

[chook fowler 19,551]

H is really no better or worse than he was at Collingwood and he is now in an inferior side. Surprised people think his performance would be any different from what we've seen.

Raises the question why we recruited him in the first place then.

[McQueen 17,867]

H is really no better or worse than he was at Collingwood and he is now in an inferior side. Surprised people think his performance would be any different from what we've seen.

He finished third in their B&F last year.

Granted he had the benefit of a more skilled and drilled team around him but your logic is questionable.

Regardless, if he's picked this week I will consider not bothering to watch another Melbourne game this year.

Edited August 16, 2015 by McQueen

[pitmaster 3,578]

Pitmaster, we beat this mob earlier in the year by 40 points. It's all between the ears and unfortunately our players are still mentally weak.

Yes, of course. And their wins over us have been tight.

But they are on the sort of roll we produced in 1987 and 1998.

I am utterly embarrassed by that effort yesterday but they have momentum and a top four spot beckons. We're playing for nothing.

It's no excuse but I had bad expectations about yesterday. Just not this bad.

[Roger Mellie 4,103]

What makes me gag, is that we go into these games with zero initiative.

We just amble in and see how the game pans out.

It's as though we're trying to get away with as little as possible.

Everything is a reaction rather than dictating the terms of the game.

It happens time and time again.

The worst game was Essendon - when they were inept but we wouldn't set the tone of the game.

Same when we won against Brisbane - when no side wanted to take the initiative.

We were just slightly less horrendous than them.

When we do the same against a good side we get dacked in spectacular fashion.

Odds on to do the same against Carlton next week.

[Radar Detector 1,347]

He finished third in their B&F last year.

Granted he had the benefit of a more skilled and drilled team around him but your logic is questionable.

Regardless, if he's picked this week I will consider not bothering to watch another Melbourne game this year.

At Collingwood, H was never a strong defensive player, he was a runner with the ability to break lines albeit he has always had a question mark over his skills. He rarely, if ever, has consistently lowered his eyes (much in the same way Nate Jones did for much of his early career) and so has been prone to turnovers.

He is basically the same player at Melbourne, it is just that his lack of defensive accountability is more exposed due to high numbers of d50 entries and our skills make it harder for him to receive and run the lines effectively.

Dean Terlich has a top 3 B&F finish in the past three years btw. So I hope others subscribe to your logic at trade time.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

Let's wait until next week before we go too troppo.

Damn the dogs were good. Fast ball movement it was exciting to watch.

Yesterday confirmed for me that we need to keep drafting kids... Some blokes r just not up to afl footy standard

[Dr. Gonzo 24,305]

Yes, of course. And their wins over us have been tight.

But they are on the sort of roll we produced in 1987 and 1998.

I am utterly embarrassed by that effort yesterday but they have momentum and a top four spot beckons. We're playing for nothing.

It's no excuse but I had bad expectations about yesterday. Just not this bad.

They kicked the first 12 goals. That's unacceptable in anyone's language. That's first year GC/GWS stuff.