Now, expecting to be howled down. On my semi-regular, weekly attendances at training, I can't recall a hell of a lot of mids and rucks working together practising where to be when Max wins the hit out. Might this partially explain an apparent inability to profit from our stoppage dominance? Other, more regular, attendees might have a different recollection.

It just seems bizarre to me that we can win so many hit-outs but the opposition seems to know where the ball is going more than we do. Can it be that we don't have signals to indicate where the ball is going to be tapped to? Might be simplistic but who knows?

Mate I don't attend training but if what u say is correct then that definitely explains part of our stoppage problem.

U train like u play and u play like u train.

Well if we are practicing midfield clearances it doesn't show in games. I don't see any system at centre bounces. The top sides seem to do it easily with time and space to get the ball moving forward more often than their opposition. If we worked on and improved our centre clearances and then worked out some kick out strategies that got the ball moving out of defence quickly who knows we might win a few more games. Oh and instruct some forwards to stay in the forward half.

Now, expecting to be howled down. On my semi-regular, weekly attendances at training, I can't recall a hell of a lot of mids and rucks working together practising where to be when Max wins the hit out. Might this partially explain an apparent inability to profit from our stoppage dominance? Other, more regular, attendees might have a different recollection.

It just seems bizarre to me that we can win so many hit-outs but the opposition seems to know where the ball is going more than we do. Can it be that we don't have signals to indicate where the ball is going to be tapped to? Might be simplistic but who knows?

Yeah it could go a long way to explaining the lack of cohesiveness between the mids. Max Gawn wins a large majority of taps thesedays, yet the midfield fail to capitalize on this. We should operate far better out of the midfield. Players aren't organised even nearly enough, they don't plan - instead they throw it on the boot.

Our disposal into our forward line is no better than country footy - even junior country footy sides dispose the ball better.

I hope that Jesse Hogan fronts the coaching panel and demands cleaner disposal. They might listen then. The only other solution is Max Gawn eventually getting sick of winning taps - and sorting the mids out himself.

Edited July 29, 201510 yr by KingDingAling

There is another alternative.

Gawn has poor directional skills

He just hits it wherever works best.

It is astounding how often his hit outs go the only spot where there is no player.

It may me an overly simplistic view, but I believe that we are setting up at stoppages to limit damage, rather than to attack. If we end up with the ball, that's great, but our first priority seems to be damage limitation.

There is another alternative.

Gawn has poor directional skills

He just hits it wherever works best.

It is astounding how often his hit outs go the only spot where there is no player.

Or uncontested, he taps it straight down the throat of an opposition player.

There is another alternative.

Gawn has poor directional skills

He just hits it wherever works best.

It is astounding how often his hit outs go the only spot where there is no player.

Then it is up to the mids to ensure direction.

Gawn is still learning, he is a developing ruckman, he does tend to slam the ball down sharply at times.

But overall, there is no direction. We need clean disposal out of the centre - yet our mids just slam it on the boot.

As good a year as Bernie Vince has had, every time I see him he is hacking the ball out of the centre, Jones isn't much better.

Salem is the answer to our midfield woes, not only can he dispose cleanly, but he does not panic. Between Salem and Brayshaw the future is bright.

In the meantime, I will just bang my head against he wall every weekend. Moloney started this bombing into the forward line trend, and it hasn't stopped.

While the AFL and Wayne Campbell and the umps are knee-jerking over 3rd man up like little nervous nellies, who knows what to train for in relation to the ruck,

Between you and me, Roos being the king of slow play stoppages, I would guess that they do quite a bit (away from our eyes too).

While the AFL and Wayne Campbell and the umps are knee-jerking over 3rd man up like little nervous nellies, who knows what to train for in relation to the ruck,

Between you and me, Roos being the king of slow play stoppages, I would guess that they do quite a bit (away from our eyes too).

The hysteria around this 3rd man up is a joke. 3rd man up has been happening for decades. Now we have TV rights and someone in the media whinges, or the game doesn't look pretty enough - these rules get changes. It is beyond ridiculous. The game is not getting a chance to evolve. It is simple, nominate the ruckman, leave it at that. Players generally don't block the ruckman they come over the top, that 3rd man can - and should - be blocked. In country football, this is a simple, simple issue. If the 3rd man up is effective, you block him. It is that simple.

There is another alternative.

Gawn has poor directional skills

He just hits it wherever works best.

It is astounding how often his hit outs go the only spot where there is no player.

This might also be a factor but surely, when Gawn seems to consistently win the tap, by the law of averages you would expect us to pick up 50% of the clearances. I haven't analysed the figures but my feeling is that we're not getting anything like 50% of the Gawn taps. Of course, the mids might all be expecting the ball to be going somewhere else, but I find that hard to believe. All I know is that my impression from training is that the bulk of the ruck training involves Greg Stafford instructing the 3 main ruck men about winning the tap.

On reflection,I can't believe that they don't spend time teaching the mids where to run to.......I just can't recall seeing it being trained. And, if the results can be believed, if it is being taught, it's not being executed on the day.

It may me an overly simplistic view, but I believe that we are setting up at stoppages to limit damage, rather than to attack. If we end up with the ball, that's great, but our first priority seems to be damage limitation.

I think Roos is deliberately playing the long game, firmly establishing defensive mechanisms, with Goodwin then to come in and determine the offensive ball movement in his own style. Provide a blank canvas, if you will.

I think Roos is very aware that he is not here for much longer, so is actually trying to set Goody up for success in the role.

In some part sacrificing the now, pulling the reigns a little.

I think Roos is deliberately playing the long game, firmly establishing defensive mechanisms, with Goodwin then to come in and determine the offensive ball movement in his own style. Provide a blank canvas, if you will.

I think Roos is very aware that he is not here for much longer, so is actually trying to set Goody up for success in the role.

In some part sacrificing the now, pulling the reigns a little.

If the NOW does not start soon there won't be a membership to worry about it.

How many times do you see a Melbourne player standing behind their opponent at a stoppage, particularly at a centre bounce? Probably 95 times out of 100.

It doesn't really matter where Max hits the ball if our players won't play in front.

How many times do you see a Melbourne player standing behind their opponent at a stoppage, particularly at a centre bounce? Probably 95 times out of 100.

It doesn't really matter where Max hits the ball if our players won't play in front.

Stole my thunder with your post poita. I was about to write this exactly almost word for word. People go and look at the replays and check out how pretty much all of our mids at the centre bounces are playing behind their men. Its not rocket science. I can't believe it still happens.

How many times do you see a Melbourne player standing behind their opponent at a stoppage, particularly at a centre bounce? Probably 95 times out of 100.

It doesn't really matter where Max hits the ball if our players won't play in front.

I've not really noticed this lately but I know Trengove used to do this all the time.

Everything thing about our play is defensive and this is no more evident than in the midfield. Our players set up to stop the opposition, not win their own ball. When winning a majority of the taps you should be going on the offensive and the other team should be worried about our players getting the ball tapped to them. When the tables turn you go more defensive to limit the damage.

On the weekend against the saints, quite a few times they had players hit the packs at speed which allows them to break out of the pack. We always stand around so that even when the ball is tapped to us, we are standing still and get nailed straight away. If we had any type of offensive mindset then we would be moving, but as I said, everything we do is to limit the damage against us.

Mids from other teams set up to win his taps too...

We can plan all we like but better footy players will win out.

I went to a coaching course a few months ago and Crocker from NM (don't know if TGR went to this seminar too) pointed out that they set up for Jamar winning the taps by reading where Jones was going and then hit that spot before he got there.

It was fascinating and cruel to watch (he put it up on the projector) as a Dees fan. Our great midfielder was the reckoning to our demise in the middle; the better he got, the more we relied on him, and the worse teams could punish us by curtailing him.

We simply need more midfielders as good as Jones, Vince and Tyson (2014 version). Viney is getting there, Brayshaw will get there, we hope Petracca gets there, we wish Prestia comes here, and maybe a couple more...Vanders?

Edited July 30, 201510 yr by rpfc

There is another alternative.

Gawn has poor directional skills

He just hits it wherever works best.

It is astounding how often his hit outs go the only spot where there is no player.

Same could be said with Jamar over the years OD. Says more about the quality and reflex speed of our midfield.

The hysteria around this 3rd man up is a joke. 3rd man up has been happening for decades. Now we have TV rights and someone in the media whinges, or the game doesn't look pretty enough - these rules get changes. It is beyond ridiculous. The game is not getting a chance to evolve. It is simple, nominate the ruckman, leave it at that. Players generally don't block the ruckman they come over the top, that 3rd man can - and should - be blocked. In country football, this is a simple, simple issue. If the 3rd man up is effective, you block him. It is that simple.

3rd man up is actually better for aesthetics. It means the ball gets tapped out of the congestion rather than falling at the feet of the ruckman.

God I hate how reactive the AFL is to everything that happens.

How many times do you see a Melbourne player standing behind their opponent at a stoppage, particularly at a centre bounce? Probably 95 times out of 100.

It doesn't really matter where Max hits the ball if our players won't play in front.

Exactly it is as simple as getting in first for the ball

It just seems bizarre to me that we can win so many hit-outs but the opposition seems to know where the ball is going more than we do.

That is not the problem. 55 midfield turnovers last week prove it.

The problem is we have no skill or stategy as to what comes next, when we get it in the middle. We play like stationary scarecrows, with the same amount of intelligence.

I have noticed that the mids and Gawn talk to each other before a centre bounce. The mids seem to have specific spots assigned to them at the ball ups. Most are defensive side. Pretty sure that anyone watching game day tapes could work it out and negate it.