http://www.sen.com.au/news/09-15/david-king-are-dees-really-more-competitive

  On 04/09/2015 at 02:38, stuie said:

http://www.sen.com.au/news/09-15/david-king-are-dees-really-more-competitive

Happy Friday!

  On 27/08/2015 at 02:58, Roost It said:

And then tools like Lyon and Lloyd come out and blame Roos. What they know about football and coaching would fit on the tip of Roos little finger,. Just shut the fuch up

I don't know why we are critisising Roos when Garry Lyon picks against Melbourne week in and week out. What sort of message does that send players from a past captain?

P.s. On the few ocassions that he does pick us (e.g. Against Carlton & Essendon) it is like a curse and we invariably lose!

Here is my take on Roos' time at the club and the fact he has all but started again. The table below has the players still on our list that were in 2013 (22 left from the 2013 44), then if they were best 22 in 2013, 2015, and if they have improved at all over the period.

Player 2013 best 22 2015 best 22 Individually improved

N. Jones y y as captain

J. Watts y y y

J. Toumpas y n y

C. Dawes y (draw with Pederson) n

J. Viney y y y

J. Trengove y Unknown Unknown

J. McKenzie y n Haven't seen him

L. Dunn y y static

C. Garland y y static

C. Pederson y (draw with Dawes) y

T. McDonald y y y

J. Grimes y n y

D. Kent y y y

M. Gawn n y y

J. Howe y y diversified

N. Jetta y y y

M. Jamar y n static

J. Spencer n n y

R. Bail y n static

M. Jones y n static

D. Terlich y n Haven't seen him

J. Fitzpatrick n n y

Totals 19 11 13

The numbers clearly indicate we have had a major clean out, the players that are left made up a fair chunk of the best 22 in 2013 (the ones worth keeping), there has been improvement over many of these players and there are a good size chunk who are no longer top 22.

This says to me that we have a side that for the most part has not had long to come together and gel as a team, we have clearly improved the list if past top 22 are no longer getting a game, and that players are being coached to improve effectively. What is missing is the intensity that jackaub points to.

Hearing Roos speak about his mantra he will want this intensity on the field to come from the players, just like he wants the players to drive the standards of the club. This is where Sydney's no d head policy came from. A failing in this can be attributed one of two ways, either Roos isn't getting the message to the players that they need to drive it and teaching them how to do so, or the players can't show enough leadership among themselves to be able to do so.

I think it is a little from column a and a little from column b. I don't think our leaders are great at leading and much of that is due to not having great leaders as they came through as their leaders were either sacked or weren't great leaders themselves, this means that I think Roos is digging in his bad of tricks to try and find something that will work to teach our leaders how to lead. Hopefully he finds it soon.

Edited table as it didn't format properly

  On 04/09/2015 at 02:43, CBDees said:

I don't know why we are critisising Roos when Garry Lyon picks against Melbourne week in and week out. What sort of message does that send players from a past captain?

P.s. On the few ocassions that he does pick us (e.g. Against Carlton & Essendon) it is like a curse and we invariably lose!

I'm sure Lyon would have been included in Roos' assessment of negativity.

Intensity should be in every player regardless of skill or experience.

The MFC as a whole needs to become more intense focused...

  On 04/09/2015 at 02:48, Django said:

I'm sure Lyon would have been included in Roos' assessment of negativity.

He was.

Roos didn't like Lyons comments at all after the Brisbane game.

That the only good thing he could say about it was that Melbourne won.

  On 04/09/2015 at 02:22, jackaub said:

Dont care how many players you bring in

Without the required Intensity we are going nowhere. Why cant Roos fix this basic part of a team sport

That is the Issue!

I see what you are saying but intensity/effort/cohesion/working for each other etc etc comes with time. Its too simplistic to say the players just need to try. It is much easier to have intensity with more senior players and players that have more than one preseason under

their belt.

a third of the team are still learning the game!

I think we will get there.

  On 04/09/2015 at 02:52, Sir Why You Little said:

Intensity should be in every player regardless of skill or experience.

The MFC as a whole needs to become more intense focused...

Id add to that "intensity for the whole game". Before this year Richmond used to be first qtr specialists.

  On 04/09/2015 at 03:02, Fork said:

He was.

Roos didn't like Lyons comments at all after the Brisbane game.

That the only good thing he could say about it was that Melbourne won.

That's all I could say.

It's the only win I've not watched again on Foxtel.

  On 04/09/2015 at 02:43, CBDees said:

I don't know why we are critisising Roos when Garry Lyon picks against Melbourne week in and week out. What sort of message does that send players from a past captain?

P.s. On the few ocassions that he does pick us (e.g. Against Carlton & Essendon) it is like a curse and we invariably lose!

If the players are not turning up because of that they should be delisted immediately FFS. The only thing more pathetic is you seeking to use to as some kind of excuse.

Gee I lost that contest because Garry Loin chop didn't pick us......

I am done bagging Roos, I have done it minimally after some frustrating losses but the fact is he inherited a disaster and is doing the best he can.

He took over literally the worst list in AFL history and the worst culture in Australian sporting history.

So if anyone expected more than what hes done at this point, they are quite simply unrealistic. His job is to steady the ship and get it moving in the right direction.

7 wins, improved percentage, several hoodoos broken, and some exciting young talent unearthed.

2015 wasn't a smooth year, but I still firmly think he's taking us in the right direction.

2016 will be a bigger challenge as internally we expect to be pushing for the top 8 (PJ has said so). Thus, I expect Paul Roos to be a VERY busy man over the next two months!

Out of the bottom 4.

7 wins and the StKilda debacle. Plus 2 diabolical losses to Carlton and Essendon.

Won at Ettihad.

Won at Simmonds.

1st and 2nd year players impacting games.

All that's left for the year is to be active in trade week and nail another draft.

Being realistic still a mile off the top 3 and the Doggies. I don't rate Sydney or Richmond at the moment.

Going to be interesting to see Goodwin as he slips into the chair.

Its a pass mark for Roosy this year.

Well done Roosy

The peanuts on here who have cornered the market in hyperbole should be having a good look in the mirror about now.

It's not mission accomplished by any stretch of the imagination but only a dead set nuffie would still be peddling the line that we are no better than we were under Mark Neeld.

There need to be some serious questions asked of those asking serious questions about Paul Roos.

4 wins, 7 wins, ? wins.

10 looks like a good number to me.

  On 06/09/2015 at 07:00, Colin B. Flaubert said:

The peanuts on here who have cornered the market in hyperbole should be having a good look in the mirror about now.

It's not mission accomplished by any stretch of the imagination but only a dead set nuffie would still be peddling the line that we are no better than we were under Mark Neeld.

Sure, we've done some things we haven't done in a long time, but the Essendon/Carlton/Footscray stuff was utter garbage.

  On 06/09/2015 at 07:06, Lamashtu said:

4 wins, 7 wins, ? wins.

10 looks like a good number to me.

Yep. 10-12 wins. If everything clicks and we pick up two A graders over the off season, we could win more than that, but 10-12 wins is realistic.

We got our 7 wins. My dad and sister (who I always go with) are still not convinced we've improved as much as we should have, given the stronger team we have, but 7 wins for mine is clear improvement and about right. I thought we'd win 6-8 games, so bang on.

Yep.

It's our best season since 2011 on both wins and %.

We are on track to continue improving.

The big difference is, this time we have a stable off field set up - stable footy dept., a stable board - as well as we have removed a lot of the poor on field culture and it's leaders that we were carrying.

When I look at the contracts list in the rpfc thread, other than those out of contact this year, M Jones and Terlich are the only players in contact after this year who I think must be moved on to improve the list; everyone else has upside, and people will sit on either side of the fence for those players.

After this end of season list turn over we will be looking at having a bit of list stability for a couple of years.

We have young talented kids.

The big question is are our senior leaders good enough to get us through until the young leaders are ready?

We are on the right track for 2017 to be a genuinely competitive team. Next year, 8-12 wins but you never know, we might get lucky.

We are on track.

  On 04/09/2015 at 03:02, Fork said:

He was.

Roos didn't like Lyons comments at all after the Brisbane game.

That the only good thing he could say about it was that Melbourne won.

Garry Lyons "Body of Work" as the chief flag holder of Melbourne's Negativity has been massive and a major obstacle for the club.

Good on you Roosy and the team on an improved year - with more improvements expected next year ...

  On 06/09/2015 at 07:14, The Stigga said:

Sure, we've done some things we haven't done in a long time, but the Essendon/Carlton/Footscray stuff was utter garbage.

That's my point though, Stigga. No one should think every thing is roses (there are lots of areas to work on) but people who cannot acknowledge that our current situation is infinitely better than it was come the end of 2013 are just clowns of the highest order.

  On 06/09/2015 at 07:06, Lamashtu said:

4 wins, 7 wins, ? wins.

10 looks like a good number to me.

Ten doesn't look like a good number to me as we should have beaten Carlton, Essendon and (one of the games against) St. Kilda giving us ten wins this year. 12-15 would be an improvement and hopefully allow us to make the Final Eight.

  On 06/09/2015 at 07:06, Lamashtu said:

4 wins, 7 wins, ? wins.

10 looks like a good number to me.

That is the benchmark number I had in mind.

Club said finals - which is 12-to-13 - but I think we'll fall short of that thanks to inexperience creating silly losses.