On 16/06/2015 at 03:59, Lucifer said:

Not sure this was the worst Iva.

Toumpas was running with Montagna but he had to leave him to tackle Lonie (who Cross was supposed to be on).

Steven ran fast to the flank but his opponent, Viney didn't go with him, he just jogged forward but went to neither Lonie or Montagna to help Toumpas.

As I said in post above that there were 5/6 players who 'misstepped', without any sign of desperation...Toumpas tried but he received no back up. A lot of players at fault but Toumpas was low on that list.

I am not a Toumpas fan LH but on this occasion I think you are correct it was not his fault but he was the one left holding the bag

  On 16/06/2015 at 03:59, Lucifer said:

Not sure this was the worst Iva.

Toumpas was running with Montagna but he had to leave him to tackle Lonie (who Cross was supposed to be on).

Steven ran fast to the flank but his opponent, Viney didn't go with him, he just jogged forward but went to neither Lonie or Montagna to help Toumpas.

As I said in post above that there were 5/6 players who 'misstepped', without any sign of desperation...Toumpas tried but he received no back up. A lot of players at fault but Toumpas was low on that list.

I agree with this, it was a combination of factors. My mention of Toumpas was simply to point out that you could see the pain on his face as he left field.

on a slightly different tangent

jesse hogan kicks the first goal within 2 minutes of the game start

he then immediately goes to the interchange

wtf - how could he possibly be fatigued or even slightly puffed

and who on the bench at that time could play full forward

the interchange manager (if he didn't call him in, in the first place) should have sent him back out

these type of decisions just baffle and frustrate me completely

  On 16/06/2015 at 04:34, daisycutter said:

on a slightly different tangent

jesse hogan kicks the first goal within 2 minutes of the game start

he then immediately goes to the interchange

wtf - how could he possibly be fatigued or even slightly puffed

and who on the bench at that time could play full forward

the interchange manager (if he didn't call him in, in the first place) should have sent him back out

these type of decisions just baffle and frustrate me completely

You are not alone dc

Yep also agree. Always confounds me when someone kicks a goal they run half the length of the ground to the bench. Just when a players confidence and touch is sky high they are dragged. May be simply part of the rotation but it is also an example when process or systems just get in the way of good old common sense. Its exactly the time you want that guy on the paddock.

  On 16/06/2015 at 04:34, daisycutter said:

on a slightly different tangent

jesse hogan kicks the first goal within 2 minutes of the game start

he then immediately goes to the interchange

wtf - how could he possibly be fatigued or even slightly puffed

and who on the bench at that time could play full forward

the interchange manager (if he didn't call him in, in the first place) should have sent him back out

these type of decisions just baffle and frustrate me completely

Big call, big call.

Feel free to add to the feeding frenzy if you affirmatively know that he went off to have his hair combed or whatever other mickey mouse reason.

If not, it would be more appropriate to stfu.

  On 16/06/2015 at 06:13, Tim said:

Big call, big call.

Feel free to add to the feeding frenzy if you affirmatively know that he went off to have his hair combed or whatever other mickey mouse reason.

If not, it would be more appropriate to stfu.

i only reported what i saw

i watched the bench too and he wasn't treated for anything

thankfully it wasn't a long out

no feeding frenzy from me, i see that type of meaningless interchange too often and not just with mfc

if you can't handle critical comment then maybe you should stfu

if you know better in this situation then speak up

  On 16/06/2015 at 06:13, Tim said:

Big call, big call.

Feel free to add to the feeding frenzy if you affirmatively know that he went off to have his hair combed or whatever other mickey mouse reason.

If not, it would be more appropriate to stfu.

What!

  On 16/06/2015 at 05:57, hemingway said:

Yep also agree. Always confounds me when someone kicks a goal they run half the length of the ground to the bench. Just when a players confidence and touch is sky high they are dragged. May be simply part of the rotation but it is also an example when process or systems just get in the way of good old common sense. Its exactly the time you want that guy on the paddock.

I believe part of the reasoning behind that is that it generally takes a couple of time-on minutes (for tv replays and a commercial or 2) before the ball is bounced again in the middle and the game is resumed. That means the player who has kicked the goal, often the one who is puffing the most at that moment, gets a couple if extra minutes to rest before there is anymore play. Then they might only need a little more rest before coming back on.

  On 16/06/2015 at 04:34, daisycutter said:

on a slightly different tangent

jesse hogan kicks the first goal within 2 minutes of the game start

he then immediately goes to the interchange

wtf - how could he possibly be fatigued or even slightly puffed

and who on the bench at that time could play full forward

the interchange manager (if he didn't call him in, in the first place) should have sent him back out

these type of decisions just baffle and frustrate me completely

It doesn't make sense to me at all, yet they do it every week. There must be a reason behind it, I'd love to know the answer.

ANB came on and sat in the pocket.

Hogan came back on about a minute later.

  On 16/06/2015 at 06:40, Moonshadow said:

I believe part of the reasoning behind that is that it generally takes a couple of time-on minutes (for tv replays and a commercial or 2) before the ball is bounced again in the middle and the game is resumed. That means the player who has kicked the goal, often the one who is puffing the most at that moment, gets a couple if extra minutes to rest before there is anymore play. Then they might only need a little more rest before coming back on.

we're talking about someone who took a mark 15m out, not someone who had run from the centre bounced a couple of times then kicked under pressure

by the time he had taken that mark he may have jogged 20m from the game start

he spent more energy running off the ground

and the 2 minute delay is an big exaggeration

  On 14/06/2015 at 18:42, bing181 said:

Gullible?

This whole "they didn't know how much time was left" is just some spin cooked up to protect the players. Roos didn't even mention it in the press conference, even though he was specifically asked about the final moments. It's something that came out later on.

It saves people asking why Nathan Jones wasn't in the centre for that last ballup, or why the leaders (cough cough) didn't organise the players to get behind the ball etc. etc.

Roos (and the club) is just covering for his team - well, in public anyway, but the players know that they stuffed up.

Everyone knew how much time was left, including the players on the field - it's partly why there was so much celebrating after Howe's goal - with under a minute to go, they thought they'd won it. Roos was screaming into the phone to get them back ... even if the runner wasn't around, the bench was close enough to communicate with the players onfield.

Hard lesson, but the players won't let that happen again. Hopefully.

We all remember our great win against Essendon last season. But have another watch and listen to Jason Dunstall commentating on us not getting numbers back after Salem kicked the go-ahead goal. Seems we didn't learn the lesson from that experience. Maybe because we ended up winning that game.

We must have the dumbest bunch of players of the whole comp.

The results we as a club have managed for the past decade would suggest our players don't learn from past mistakes.

We repeat poor habits season after season.

In fact the only thing we do well is make constant school boy errors, in both skills and decision making time after time.

  On 16/06/2015 at 07:14, T-34 said:

The results we as a club have managed for the past decade would suggest our players don't learn from past mistakes.

We repeat poor habits season after season.

In fact the only thing we do well is make constant school boy errors, in both skills and decision making time after time.

I wonder how much is from our poor development and we haven't taught players 'game sense' - not sure how to define that but it is different to skills, positioning, ball movement, game plan etc etc.

More to do with strategies and awareness of ebbs & flows within a game and how counter-strategies.

Maybe this is what Roos meant when he said Watts: "has some of the best 'footy IQ' he has seen".

Rodney Eade put it well when he said he was shocked to see the very poor understanding the GCS players had of 'how footy is played' and he had to start from scratch. So, it can be taught.

The last 2 games certainly show our players don't understand this either.

I don't think it is just poor/inexperienced leadership. It is lack of 'footy IQ'/'game sense'

As scary as it may sound, maybe our development has been worse than we thought.

The 40 seconds was a perfect storm of lack of leadership, football intelligence and plain bad luck. However the more I think about it the more it was purely lack of communication from bench to field on how long was left. How many games have had 26 minute quarters this year? Without knowing the time left I would have assumed there could be 3-5 minutes of game time so as a player who didn't know why would you put numbers behind when you would think there is still plenty of time? Whilst you train this how many games in the last 2 years have we had to defend a one goal lead in the dying seconds? The last play all comes down to why were the players not aware as no one has confirmed they were (aside from maybe Cross coming off the bench)

Take the last 40 seconds out I left more frustrated with our lack of attack in the first 15 minutes of the last quarter to attempt to win the game rather than save it. We let StKilda dictate terms and crowded the ball in our defence or handballed in panicked circles until we kicked it back to their spare man. They were a worthy winner as one tried to win it the other tried not to lose it.

  On 16/06/2015 at 07:37, big_red_fire_engine said:

Take the last 40 seconds out I left more frustrated with our lack of attack in the first 15 minutes of the last quarter to attempt to win the game rather than save it.

And whats really frustrating is that we attacked vs the Dogs at the start of the last quarter and smashed them.

So we can do it when we feel like it.

  On 16/06/2015 at 04:34, daisycutter said:

on a slightly different tangent

jesse hogan kicks the first goal within 2 minutes of the game start

he then immediately goes to the interchange

wtf - how could he possibly be fatigued or even slightly puffed

and who on the bench at that time could play full forward

the interchange manager (if he didn't call him in, in the first place) should have sent him back out

these type of decisions just baffle and frustrate me completely

It's as non-sensical as the structure in the last 40 seconds. I'm sure the on-field leaders will cop the blame for this as well.

  On 16/06/2015 at 04:34, daisycutter said:

on a slightly different tangent

jesse hogan kicks the first goal within 2 minutes of the game start

he then immediately goes to the interchange

wtf - how could he possibly be fatigued or even slightly puffed

and who on the bench at that time could play full forward

the interchange manager (if he didn't call him in, in the first place) should have sent him back out

these type of decisions just baffle and frustrate me completely

It was 40 seconds, not even one minute. I completely agree.

  On 16/06/2015 at 06:45, daisycutter said:

we're talking about someone who took a mark 15m out, not someone who had run from the centre bounced a couple of times then kicked under pressure

by the time he had taken that mark he may have jogged 20m from the game start

he spent more energy running off the ground

and the 2 minute delay is an big exaggeration

Maybe he had to text a mate or update his Twitter account dc.....

  On 16/06/2015 at 09:41, Moonshadow said:

Maybe he had to text a mate or update his Twitter account dc.....

hmmm, could be onto something there.......bloody gen Yers

  On 16/06/2015 at 06:40, Moonshadow said:

I believe part of the reasoning behind that is that it generally takes a couple of time-on minutes (for tv replays and a commercial or 2) before the ball is bounced again in the middle and the game is resumed. That means the player who has kicked the goal, often the one who is puffing the most at that moment, gets a couple if extra minutes to rest before there is anymore play. Then they might only need a little more rest before coming back on.

This sounds like a reasonable explanation. But it involves a player sprinting 100m flat out in order to get a rest for a minute or two, and then sprinting 100m again to go back to his position. When he could surely have rested equally effectively without the sprints either side.

To be fair, I think they were working on his hammies while he was off. Tho' that might have been because he'd just sprinted 100m flat out to get off the ground.

Another one I noticed was when Grimes & his opponent were about 20m away from the bench, and Grimes got called to the interchange. While he sprinted 20m & interchanged with Lumumba, St Kilda had the ball and Grimes' opponent sprinted away to make position and now had a 50m break on Lumumba.

I hope I live long enough to find out that all these frequent interchanges actually detracted from individual & team performance.

  On 16/06/2015 at 06:27, old dee said:

What!

I think he politely telling DC to be quiet

Hopefully they will cut the interchange numbers to about 10 a quarter....That should stop the crap that goes on at the moment.

It's the same as the forwards not being able to practise goal kicking as the experts say they are overloading their legs

To many sports scientists in this game now. It used to be such a simple game.

  On 17/06/2015 at 03:27, Bossdog said:

Hopefully they will cut the interchange numbers to about 10 a quarter....That should stop the crap that goes on at the moment.

It's the same as the forwards not being able to practise goal kicking as the experts say they are overloading their legs

To many sports scientists in this game now. It used to be such a simple game.

Still is Bossdog

The problem as I see it is there are too many in FD's that need to justify their existence.

A bit like the constant changes to web sites that do nothing for the user of the site and usually make them harder to navigate.

Roos' performance on AFL 360 this week was frankly embarrasing. He's clearly to blame here.