On 29/09/2015 at 02:38, Al said:

1 - must be a natural competitor

2 - elite skills

3 - footy smarts

Not being smart but the successful clubs have been drafting kids with those traits for years.

I am sick and tired of players being lauded for #2 in your checklist - Morton, Maric, Strauss, Blease, Gysberts and more were picked for their "elite skills" but we're just not your #1 - competitive beasts. If you don't, can't, won't get the bloody ball and / or don't have vision and balance elite skills are absolutely useless.

I think your order is pretty spot on - though I may even swap #2 for #3, though I think they really go together.

Edited September 29, 20159 yr by monoccular

  On 29/09/2015 at 01:40, Return to Glory said:

Would we get him there? I can't even remember how it works.

Yeah, all he needs to do is nominate only for the PSD and get overlooked by 5 clubs.

  On 28/09/2015 at 23:15, billy2803 said:

I spoke with someone in our FD before the start of this season, and one thing he pointed out was that 2015 would be a bit rocky, mainly because the team had played bugger all footy together. However, he did say that 2016 was going to be the start of the exciting times for us (implying the team will know each other better after 12 months with each other).

Keeping that in mind, and the fact that we've had 6 players gone already, I'd be surprised if there will be too many more list changes, unless the "deal of a lifetime" comes up.

While we still need to remove a number of players to improve, we also need stability. The upside of keeping the likes of Matt Jones and Dean Terlich around for another season is that they will play a lot of footy at Casey in 2016, but if needed in the seniors, they will know the role they need to play, and will know the players around them. That's not to say they'll play that role well, but there were games this year where M Jones wasn't a liability.

Doing this will then see us needing to move only a handful on at the end of next season, giving all players the opportunity to develop as a team.

With AVB being upgraded, we have 5 spots on the list. I'd imagine we will be trying to get two players during the Trade/FA period that will be starting 18, leaving 3 spots to take to the draft. If we find other "starting 18" players wanting to join us, then the likes of MJones/Terlich will be pushed out, otherwise, they'll be with us in 2016.

I don't agree with with that Matt Jones wasn't a liability but I get what you're trying to say.

At no stage this year did Matt Jones as an individual cost us a game, when we lost and he played poorly he usually had 8-14 mates with him that played poorly.

  On 29/09/2015 at 03:52, boydie said:

I don't agree with with that Matt Jones wasn't a liability but I get what you're trying to say.

At no stage this year did Matt Jones as an individual cost us a game, when we lost and he played poorly he usually had 8-14 mates with him that played poorly.

Played an important role in our win v Geelong.

  On 29/09/2015 at 03:47, rpfc said:

Yeah, all he needs to do is nominate only for the PSD and get overlooked by 5 clubs.

Ta rpfc. I thought that was how it worked. So basically, we need to get the deal done beforehand.

  On 29/09/2015 at 00:53, stevethemanjordan said:

Interesting and thanks for the info.

Much can change over the course of a year and judging by comments made this year after certain losses and similar periods of non-competitive and skill-less football as last year, Roos and co have surely come to the understanding that the list still needs a lot of work. In all areas.

Looking closely at the six players that have already been moved on, it would be fair to say that Jamar, Bail, McKenzie, Riley and Fitzpatrick offered us very little in the way of 'depth'. One of many problems with our list is that not only do we not have quality depth, we don't even have decent depth. Clearly this was evidenced by Roos' desire to play underdeveloped first year players off the back of very limited pre-seasons in ANB, Stretch and Vandenberg, and a refusal to play those aforementioned, much older and more experienced names.

In knowing that, is it not obvious as to why we'd be trying to target out-of-form but talented players like Melksham? Or do posters still struggle to recognise this?

Again, I'll remind you that Melksham's 2013 season shits all over anything that Bail, McKenzie and Riley have produced throughout their careers and he possess a skill-set that is greater than theirs.

List management and changes at a club like ours is clearly a more difficult process than at most other clubs. We have to target depth, talent, senior leadership, role-playing and drafting correctly. Targeting depth players like Melksham with the scope for improvement is nothing short of a necessity for the MFC.

After this time next year and if all goes to plan, list changes won't be anywhere near as drastic as what we've witnessed over the past few years. Get our depth right, develop our kids right and keep nailing the draft, bring in a couple more older and more experienced heads to continue to help nurture and bring in at least on A grader into the midfield, (hopefully two) and we'll continue to rise.

You've swayed me.

  On 29/09/2015 at 03:29, monoccular said:

I am sick and tired of players being lauded for #2 in your checklist - Morton, Maric, Strauss, Blease, Gysberts and more were picked for their "elite skills" but we're just not your #1 - competitive beasts. If you don't, can't, won't get the bloody ball and / or don't have vision and balance elite skills are absolutely useless.

I think your order is pretty spot on - though I may even swap #2 for #3, though I think they really go together.

I think it's fair to say that all the junior comps around the country are well run but some kids for whatever reasons don't respond to the system their in but for geographical reasons are stuck in that system for the duration of their junior career. If kids are competitive and can use the footy good clubs will teach them how they want them to play.

  On 29/09/2015 at 02:58, Jaded said:

I also love that Jack Viney is not Cale Morton

Jack VIney's girlfriend also loves this.

  On 29/09/2015 at 03:54, billy2803 said:

Played an important role in our win v Geelong.

and our win against Bulldogs

  On 29/09/2015 at 03:27, ProDee said:

Every time I open this thread I'm hoping to read news of another NQR having left the building.

There's too many softies to simply chop in one hit, hence the good and reasonable theory that player managers of a handful are being told to shop around this off-season.

Sadly, their market worth amounts to very little these days - an indictment on past regimes but hey whatever, we'll have to suck it up for another year.

Jay Clark has just said Dees to trade Jack Watts for a ''decent player'' or a Top 20 pick??

Hearing a bit of a whisper that Jack Watts might be looked at as part of the Jake Melksham trade

Source: Paige Cardona

  On 29/09/2015 at 08:42, deefella said:

Jay Clark has just said Dees to trade Jack Watts for a ''decent player'' or a Top 20 pick??

He didn't say we would trade him, just that if one of the above offers came up we might consider it.

  On 29/09/2015 at 08:44, Italian Stallion said:

Hearing a bit of a whisper that Jack Watts might be looked at as part of the Jake Melksham trade

Source: Paige Cardona

Don't take anything serious that [censored] says.

  On 29/09/2015 at 08:42, deefella said:

Jay Clark has just said Dees to trade Jack Watts for a ''decent player'' or a Top 20 pick??

So it's a top 20 pick then.

  On 29/09/2015 at 02:38, Al said:

1 - must be a natural competitor

2 - elite skills

3 - footy smarts

Not being smart but the successful clubs have been drafting kids with those traits for years.

Need to be a very good runner these days too.

No engine = no future.

  On 29/09/2015 at 09:03, Ron Burgundy said:

Need to be a very good runner these days too.

No engine = no future.

Jobe Watson

Nat Fyfe

Sam Mitchell

Luke Hodge

Dan Hannebery

Josh Kennedy

Adam Treloar

Travis Boak

Isacc Smith

Bradley Hill

Brent Stanton

Mark Blicavs

Dan Nicholson

Jarryn Geary

Rohan Bail

The first group are footballers first and foremost. They're players who have developed a 'tank' through sheer work ethic and none of them were elite runners before being drafted.

The second group are runners first and foremost. Some of whom have greater footballing ability than others on their list.

Of course running is important. But it's fair to say the differences once you get to AFL level rest in your ability to 'play' the game and not so much whether or not you can beat a bloke in a 3km time trial by 20 seconds.

Edited September 29, 20159 yr by stevethemanjordan

  On 29/09/2015 at 08:54, Al said:

So it's a top 20 pick then.

Only to be negotiated down to the mid to late 20's.

  On 29/09/2015 at 09:03, Ron Burgundy said:

Need to be a very good runner these days too.

No engine = no future.

A natural competitor will survive on a lesser skills set and can (will) build his engine in time.

Tick off the first and the rest will follow.

Eric Wallace just got delisted? he can ruck... useless around the ground

I hope another club gives him a chance, some VFL games he looked the goods.....

  On 29/09/2015 at 09:49, stevethemanjordan said:

Jobe Watson

Nat Fyfe

Sam Mitchell

Luke Hodge

Dan Hannebery

Josh Kennedy

Adam Treloar

Travis Boak

Isacc Smith

Bradley Hill

Brent Stanton

Mark Blicavs

Dan Nicholson

Jarryn Geary

Rohan Bail

The first group are footballers first and foremost. They're players who have developed a 'tank' through sheer work ethic and none of them were elite runners before being drafted.

The second group are runners first and foremost. Some of whom have greater footballing ability than others on their list.

Of course running is important. But it's fair to say the differences once you get to AFL level rest in your ability to 'play' the game and not so much whether or not you can beat a bloke in a 3km time trial by 20 seconds.

Agree completely, although Hannebury had the best beep test result at the draft camp in his year

  On 28/09/2015 at 23:27, grazman said:

Interesting watching the Brownlow coverage last night. They interviewed a bunch of people including Nat Fyfe's neighbour growing up - Cale Morton. What stood out is that they singled out Fyfe's competitiveness. Morton was the more highly touted junior, but arguably Fyfe was the kid prepared to crawl over broken glass to taste success. Fyfe has a Brownlow and Morton is no longer on an AFL list. I think the club is now onto this.

I see now at long last the club sees competitivness as an asset in the players gee wow what too them so long?

I guess thats why we picked Watts and Toump because that was before the club woke up to the fact that it was and importnat part of the players make up to consider

Bloody hell!

Still think that although it can be argued that we've reduced Watts' trade worth by holding on to him too long that his elite disposal would be a real gift for an elite midfield like Fremantle or West Coast.

I think Bugg may signal the trade of Grimes and Garland, Howe, Toumpas and Watts may go if a reasonable deal comes up.

watts for melksham is too much imo.

Just added them up and with Cross having been given the tap on the shoulder, if we were to trade all of Howe, Watts and Grimes, that is 562 games experience we'd be pushing out the door in an already very inexperienced side.

Cool heads needed at club HQ. All very well to move these guys on, but not if you're replacing them with four rolls of the dice. As good as our youngsters look, we know better than any club what can happen when they are given too much responsibility too soon.

  On 29/09/2015 at 03:22, billy2803 said:

Have a look at the players picked in 2009 from 1-20;

Scully - was always going to be pick 1

Trengove - barely been on the park

Martin - star

Morabito - unknown

Cunnington - starting to show good form

Rohan - not in Sydney's Top 10

Shepphard - solid without shinier

Butcher - minimal impact

Moore - struggles to hold his spot

Melksham - good but not great

Gysberts - no comment

Lucas - bust

Talia - star

Jetta - inconsistent

Howard - delisted

Pittard - solid contributor

Menzel - could be anything

Tapscott - no comment

Griffiths - can't crack it consistently

Fyfe - star

Not many stars amongst them, a couple of unknowns due to injury (of which you have to include Trengove in that category).

A number of clubs had a bust in that first round, it's just a shame we had 2 outstanding duds. (I don't call Scully a dud - he'd be handy in our team at the moment, but not as handy as what we got for him).

Let's not also forget that BP picked up Gawn in the same draft, and Fitzy (not saying he was a star, but he was terribly managed in his time at the club).

Fyfe said it himself yesterday, he has the players around him who do the dirt jobs and protect him to allow him to hunt the ball and take great marks. Freo has a lot of older players who could lead Fyfe when he first entered the club.

Unfortunately for the players we picked up that draft they walked into a club with no leaders. Getting rid of McDonald and Cam.B was the worst thing we could have done for the development for those players.