In saying that players have the second half of the season to get another season, I suppose Roos is saying the obvious, but I like the fact that he is saying it. Clear, straightforward, sensible and above all fair. Players will understand and accept this message. There can be no complaints. The touchy feel good stuff is over and Roos is about establishing non negotiable standards.

i'm not to concerned about how many get the flick

i'm more concerned about the quality of who we sign up. there's 17 other clubs all desperate for talent

more realistic to think in terms of a (another) rebuild and hope for a bit of luck (for a change)

That is always the problem.

The easy part is flinging the poor ones dc

The hard part is replacing them with better players

That is always the problem.

The easy part is flinging the poor ones dc

The hard part is replacing them with better players

so true OD and also players who are ready to play and not going to take 3-5 years to develop. we desperately need ready to go players.

Yep. All about playing up the Melbourne blame game so other teams think they can pull players with 'potential' out of the mire.

I think the only problem is now there is a solid history of other clubs not being able to do that with our ex-players.

Shoooooooooooooosh!

That is always the problem.

The easy part is flinging the poor ones dc

The hard part is replacing them with better players

Whilst i agree that the easy part is getting rid of the NQR players and the hard part is finding quality replacements, it shouldn't prevent a continued mass culling and turnover of our list.

There are still so many players that are simply not up to AFL standard. We already know what these players are and aren't capable of. The likes of Bail, Jones, Terlich, McKenzie etc should all be given the flick because they have had long enough to prove they are worthy of playing AFL level football yet have continually shown that they aren't up to it and won't aid in our efforts to rise up the ladder.

Sure there's a madness in continually bringing in and culling more NQR players to fill the recently ousted NQR positions, but the new recruits are unknown at AFL level (most will be unsuccessful, but some might pay off - like a vandenBerg). It's like panning for gold, you've got to continually sort through all the cr@p and keep digging, but every now and then you find something.

Edited June 2, 201510 yr by Demon Disciple

The last one would be the biggest bb

I reckon too

Even Yoda has a breaking point. Sounds like Roos is pretty close to his.

Needed, more quality players, Demons....hmmm !!

Needed, more quality players, Demons....hmmm !!

Very good bb

IMO Roosy needs to stop giving the players an excuse. He has repeatedly told us that we can't compete with the top teams because we don't have the talent.

Going into the games against Freo, Hawks, Sydney it was almost like the players didn't expect to win so they didn't have much of a crack. Likewise against Port, it was like the players dropped their heads after half time because Port were a top 4 team last year so it was ok to loose to them.

Every team should be considered gettable. 18 blokes v 18 blokes. It may not be realistic but it should be the ingrained in the players thinking. I don't see that at Melbourne at the moment.

so true OD and also players who are ready to play and not going to take 3-5 years to develop. we desperately need ready to go players.

Definitely. The ready to go have been exceptional in the past 2 years of trade: Cross, Vince, HL. For the culture as much as their skill. Garlett also shows the right signs.

Swapping HL for Clark was an astute move, but now we're now missing that experienced forward. Watts should step up, I hope he does but it's a big ask.

Definitely. The ready to go have been exceptional in the past 2 years of trade: Cross, Vince, HL. For the culture as much as their skill. Garlett also shows the right signs.

Swapping HL for Clark was an astute move, but now we're now missing that experienced forward. Watts should step up, I hope he does but it's a big ask.

After 100 games it shouldnt be an issue The fact that he hasnt is one of the issues and he has a few fellow travellers

Edited June 2, 201510 yr by jackaub

I'm not so sure why it is hard to understand that we have players on our list that aren't good enough.

Yes but how many understand that many of them are supposedly best 22. We are lucky to 15 of AFL standard(1st year players excluded).

Yes but how many understand that many of them are supposedly best 22. We are lucky to 15 of AFL standard(1st year players excluded).

Yes if we'd have 15 we'd be lucky

I think Bing means close to ..... getting the flick OD

No, sorry, I meant how close they (people in general) were to getting it right/making it work. See it all the time.

Was speaking generally, not so much about the players.

A moment of whimsy, my apologies.

No, sorry, I meant how close they (people in general) were to getting it right/making it work. See it all the time.

Was speaking generally, not so much about the players.

A moment of whimsy, my apologies.

None needed bing I got your meaning

i'm not to concerned about how many get the flick

i'm more concerned about the quality of who we sign up. there's 17 other clubs all desperate for talent

more realistic to think in terms of a (another) rebuild and hope for a bit of luck (for a change)

Disagree.

For too long it's always been about who we can bring in who's not currently on the list to make things better (whether via the draft, or trade, or FA).

But that's just playing around the edges.

We won't go anywhere as a club unless we seek/demand improvement from those currently on our list.

We need Spencer/Gawn to make it. We can't just go find two ready-made ruckmen with 5+ years experience.

Ideally, we need Watts and Howe and Grimes and Garland to push their games to the next level. It's probably not going to happen, but if it does, that is much more likely to make us a better side.

Waiting for the end of the year to bring in 4 new kids and a few new trade players and to delist 8 NQRs is all well and good, but the remaining 35-odd players who are already on our list need to get better or it won't matter.

I love Paul Roos.

And Paul Roos loves you Ron Burgundy (You stay classy Melbourne)

Above all else, we needed Nathan Jones to go to another level. He hasn't done it and evidently we're stuck in Neutral.

We need two more good midfielders. They don't even need to be great. We just need more damage out of the middle.

Lack of ability and mental fragility

Same traits exist from years gone by

Roos is speaking the truth. Leadership group is filled with players who are not leaders

Capitulation under pressure is what happens when the thin Gaffer Tape snaps....

Did Roos mention the Leadership group?

Above all else, we needed Nathan Jones to go to another level. He hasn't done it and evidently we're stuck in Neutral.

We need two more good midfielders. They don't even need to be great. We just need more damage out of the middle.

We need everyone else go up to Nathan Jones' level.

We need everyone else go up to Nathan Jones' level.

Good luck with that Jnr.

He needs to instil confidence, I don't know if alluding to blokes losing their jobs will do that...

With that said - he has a different audience when on TV to when he is on the training track.

The blokes need to have confidence in themselves and their teammates to run and spread and be bold and they have that for 40 minutes and then don't for an hour...

It's progress that they have it at all but the fits and starts and hard to take for us supporters - we have been sucker punched a few times with it.

It isn't a lack of effort - it's a lack of self-belief and trust - and it disappears so quickly it is obviously an elusive mystery to Roos.

Too many soft cox/NQRs in this list RP who "choose" when its their turn to go or just arent up to AFL standard.

Roos is paying the price of backing them for too long. Needs to smack this lot around and toughen up on the lot of em and move on from NQR soft cox to start. Then build decent depth through the mid field ASAP to support Jones, Vince, Viney, Tyson, Brayshaw and Vanders. He will need to bring in other NQRs to replace the soft cox but the morale in the team will be better for it. Similar skills/talent or lack thereof but guys having a dip can inspire. Soft Cox do the reverse and their pathetic non efforts are there for all to see and can spread through the group like wildfire if left in the team. This leads to the lack of trust u were referring to. Then everyone starts to go into self preservation mode.

There's only one person to blame for playing soft cox for too long so far this year and that's PR himself.

All other teams kno we run shallow thru the mid with Jones the only player in the top 100 AFL ranked players. Put a hard lock down on Jones... game over.

When we finally get rid of the NQRs/Soft cox and import 2 to 3 B grade mid fielders... we will start winning more than 1 game in a row against clubs from 8ish down.

Until then sit back and enjoy being regularly massacred.

P.S. We will still get beaten by most teams outside the bottom 6 in most cases even if he drops the NQRs & soft cox THIS SEASON...just not massacred (excluding the top 4 or so).

Edited June 2, 201510 yr by Rusty Nails

Too many soft cox/NQRs in this list RP who "choose" when its their turn to go or just arent up to AFL standard.

pretty much sums it up for mine.

Not sure if just a case of choosing when to go its that its not intuitive and instinctive to do so. Either way, they dont..as you allude .

Too many soft cox/NQRs in this list RP who "choose" when its their turn to go or just arent up to AFL standard.

Roos is paying the price of backing them for too long. Needs to smack this lot around and toughen up on the lot of em and move on from NQR soft cox to start. Then build decent depth through the mid field ASAP to support Jones, Vince, Viney, Tyson, Brayshaw and Vanders. He will need to bring in other NQRs to replace the soft cox but the morale in the team will be better for it. Similar skills/talent or lack thereof but guys having a dip can inspire. Soft Cox do the reverse and their pathetic non efforts are there for all to see and can spread through the group like wildfire if left in the team. This leads to the lack of trust u were referring to. Then everyone starts to go into self preservation mode.

There's only one person to blame for playing soft cox for too long so far this year and that's PR himself.

All other teams kno we run shallow thru the mid with Jones the only player in the top 100 AFL ranked players. Put a hard lock down on Jones... game over.

When we finally get rid of the NQRs/Soft cox and import 2 to 3 B grade mid fielders... we will start winning more than 1 game in a row against clubs from 8ish down.

Until then sit back and enjoy being regularly massacred.

P.S. We will still get beaten by most teams outside the bottom 6 in most cases even if he drops the NQRs & soft cox THIS SEASON...just not massacred (excluding the top 4 or so).

I presume you've got a rowing background, Rusty?

No, it isn't hard to understand. It's patently obvious.

But do you also accept the reasoning that they are spooked by the past? Because that is essentially shifting blame.

Take responsibility. There are no excuses. If they're not good enough, that's the beginning and end of it.

I have a huge amount of respect for Roos. It's why I take more interest in what he says.

I do accept that some players are spooked by the past.

But it is not shifting responsibility because not all players are afflicted by this curse. It is squarely placing the responsibility on players that are afflicted - that they are not quite good enough - especially in the mental toughness area

If you constantly beat a dog most will cringe every time you walk past the dog whether you beat it or not. But not all.

So the mental psyche of players can absolutely be scarred from years of being belted but it hasn't done that to Nathan Jones.

We have both reached the same conclusion. If you are not good enough because you don't have the talent or if you are not good enough because you are not mentally strong enough to stay the course when things turn sour - bottom line is - you're not good enough.