Morton or Toumpas

[Pirlo 517]

Morton had a good first 20 games, it was what happened in the next 50 that killed him.

Generally these things work in reverse of that.

[nutbean 8,837]

So essentially, Neale Daniher's request for the 'toughest player in the draft' in 2001.

We overlooked quite a few skinny, talented blokes for Luke Molan.

you mean skinny little Nick Del Santo ?

[nutbean 8,837]

You're not getting it.

I want power around the ball.

Not string beans.

If there a skillful thin kid projected to go at 4, i'll take the brute projected at 6.

And if those kids ever met at a centre bounce during a hot final the brute will break that skinny kid in half.

Being skinny is not Toumpas's problem...

Toumpas's problem is that all he was represented as, as an 18 year old - has to this point been misrepresented.

He could play outside and inside - win his own ball, good skills, kick goals and great work ethic - I haven't seen it.

At the time of the draft there was a mark against Wines for his kicking - I haven't seen too much wrong with his footskills to date so that appears to be wrong as well.

(there was a knock on Scully's kicking too - and it was apparent - although he has worked on it and it is much better now)

[old dee 22,802]

Not sure why there is so much discussion on Toumpas.

It is clear to most that in his third year he is showing little to suggest he is an AFL player.

I have never even seen or heard of him dominating at Casey.

Sad but the situation IMO is that he is not up to it at AFL level and never will be.

Let's move on and accept another poor draft pick.

Replace at the end of the year there is no value here.

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,137]

I don't disagree entirely.

I do see SOMETHING there though. I'd like to see one more year on the list - he has zero trade value anyway.

(Not to mention there's still two thirds of this year remaining)

[nutbean 8,837]

Not sure why there is so much discussion on Toumpas.

It is clear to most that in his third year he is showing little to suggest he is an AFL player.

I have never even seen or heard of him dominating at Casey.

Sad but the situation IMO is that he is not up to it at AFL level and never will be.

Let's move on and accept another poor draft pick.

Replace at the end of the year there is no value here.

This where we get blinded by what pick someone was drafted.

Not sure if he will or won't be on the list next year - the only reason I say that is because of his low draft pick.

From Toumpa's year Evans and Nicholson were promoted rookies - Stark and Clisby were rookied that year.

Has Jimmy shown more than Evans or Clisby ? Probably not. We cut them as they were speculative draft selections.

Terlich is also from that draft and I don't t think he will be there at years end. Matt Jones ? who knows.

I think the point is - players don't have input as to where they are selected in the draft - but do the low draft picks get longer - toumpas ?

I don't know the answer.

Edited May 19, 2015 by nutbean

[Dr. Mubutu 690]

Terlich is also from that draft and I don't t think he will be there at years end. Matt Jones ? who knows.

Would take Terlich over Matt Jones every day of the week, twice on game day.

If M. Jones is still on the list come the end of the year, something is very wrong.

[old dee 22,802]

This where we get blinded by what pick someone was drafted.

Not sure if he will or won't be on the list next year - the only reason I say that is because of his low draft pick.

From Toumpa's year Evans and Nicholson were promoted rookies - Stark and Clisby were rookied that year.

Has Jimmy shown more than Evans or Clisby ? Probably not. We cut them as they were speculative draft selections.

Terlich is also from that draft and I don't t think he will be there at years end. Matt Jones ? who knows.

I think the point is - players don't have input as to where they are selected in the draft - but do the low draft picks get longer - toumpas ?

I don't know the answer.

To me the answer is yes nutbean.

However from my view point it ain't there.

His only saying grace is as you suggest there are plenty that are not good enough to go at the end of 2015.

He may be lucky that he is a way down the list and you cannot de list 20 in the one year.

[nutbean 8,837]

To me the answer is yes nutbean.

However from my view point it ain't there.

His only saying grace is as you suggest there are plenty that are not good enough to go at the end of 2015.

He may be lucky that he is a way down the list and you cannot de list 20 in the one year.

agreed.

Being absolutely clinical - if you didn't know his draft position he would be a delist conversation the same as many others. The saving grace as you say - is how many can you turn over and he is still only 3 years in - but he has shown little to recommend him as a footballer to date.

I will compare him to both JKH and Salem - last season was their first. Did they knock my socks off ? no, but both showed something here and there during the season. JT has to show something before years end.

[pitmaster 3,048]

Morton over Cyril ! another nice piece of revisionism.

That aside...apart from the untapped talent that these kids have - even when Hawthorn was struggling they had something that we have never had. They had a solid well run club with good coaching structures in place - they didn't bring in kids from the draft to be messiahs - they were allowed to develop.

I mention Gunston as a drafting coup - he was a kid with a far bit of talent - but he was allowed to grow as the Hawks third tall behind Franklin and Roughie. Jesse Hogan is 6 games into a career and is our number one forward target by a long way - no pressure on you kid !

Simple analogy - put a young healthy plant into crap soil and watch how their growth is stiffled.

Good. Then you can see a spot for Dawes, then, I hope.

[old dee 22,802]

Good. Then you can see a spot for Dawes, then, I hope.

There is only one reason Dawes will be playing this weekend.

There is no one better to put in and that is the tragic part.

[Demon Disciple 10,884]

The difference between Morton and Toumpas is that Morton showed at the start that there was at least a chance of him becoming a solid AFL contributor.

Toumpas has shown no such thing. Wines has been out injured for a couple of weeks now, yet Toumpas's impact for us in these rounds had had the same influence as Wines's

[Demon Disciple 10,884]

There is only one reason Dawes will be playing this weekend.

There is no one better to put in and that is the tragic part.

A double arm and leg amputee would take just as many marks and kick as many goals as Dawes at the minute.

[dazzledavey36 48,619]

Would take Terlich over Matt Jones every day of the week, twice on game day.

If M. Jones is still on the list come the end of the year, something is very wrong.

Better get use to Jones. Signed a 2 year deal last year.

[old dee 22,802]

Better get use to Jones. Signed a 2 year deal last year.

As did Terlich

Neither would be on high money so not a big deal to pay out the contracts.

However I don't see that happening both will survive IMO

Mores the pity.

[nutbean 8,837]

Good. Then you can see a spot for Dawes, then, I hope.

I can only see a spot for Dawes if helps takes the pressure off Hogan. Do you think he has done that this year ?

I have been an unabashed member of the Chris Dawes fan club - I love what he does off the ball - his second efforts, he desire to chase and tackle, block and shepherd. Unfortunately that is not enough - you also need to get the ball and kick a few goals as a forward - he is not doing that.

[Pederson] brought more to the table on Saturday than Dawes has for the year,

Edited May 19, 2015 by nutbean

[beelzebub 22,225]

Where is this team really......when Peders can walk in and take the Choccies.???? I thought we might be just one more EOS from an OK list... we just seem to get further and further away

[dee-tox 4,769]

Toumpas doesn't seem to have that unequivocal belief in his ability that AFL footballers need. Will he get there? Maybe but won't be for a couple of years an the club will need to gift him games to get there.

[beelzebub 22,225]

you just feel at times as though these guys should be a sponsor !!!

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

A double arm and leg amputee would take just as many marks and kick as many goals as Dawes at the minute.

I'm a double arm and leg amputee and I find these comments offensive!

[picket fence 15,040]

Are you saying that Sylvia wasn't a goer when he was drafted ( incorrect - read what was written about him at draft time - absolute monstered the TAC competition) or he didn't turn out to be the goer everyone hoped he would be ( 100% correct ).

Travis Johnstone and Cam Bruce are looking fine in comparison to how many for us have turned out.

drafting is a raffle.

Drafting is a raffle?? Give me a break!! If so Hawthorn have won the raffle every bloody time ! Have never bottomed out and won a truckload of flags!!

Nup apart from few exceptions we have been absolutely Shizenhuisen in our draft strategy and Choices made! Period!

[jackaub 1,402]

Toumpas doesn't seem to have that unequivocal belief in his ability that AFL footballers need. Will he get there? Maybe but won't be for a couple of years an the club will need to gift him games to get there.

Nope no way Worth less

[olisik 4,060]

I don't understand how he aways seem to have an opponent 2 meters away every time he gets the ball. Does he not know how to make space or even contest in the air n take a grab.

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,137]

Drafting is a raffle?? Give me a break!! If so Hawthorn have won the raffle every bloody time ! Have never bottomed out and won a truckload of flags!!

Except for 2005 when they took Ellis instead of Pendlebury/Kennedy, then Dowler instead of Ryder/Jones; then the next year when they opted for Thorp instead of Selwood.

And never bottomed out except 2004 and 2005 when they finished second and third last in the league.

Every team has made plenty of drafting errors.

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,850]

Drafting is a raffle?? Give me a break!! If so Hawthorn have won the raffle every bloody time ! Have never bottomed out and won a truckload of flags!!

Nup apart from few exceptions we have been absolutely Shizenhuisen in our draft strategy and Choices made! Period!

mitch thorp/ Joel selwood