hird came out on saturday and blamed the media in general for misrepresenting the truth and saying certain journalists had it in for him and were venomous

lets see now who hird/essendon have blamed and attacked strongly for their predicament

1] the afl

2] the government

3] asada

4] the court

5] wada

6] the media

i just wonder who is left to blame? oh that's right....maybe themselves?

Surely it must be Demonland next on this list as I get the feeling BB does not like Mr Hird and all of his fellow cult members?

Surely it must be Demonland next on this list as I get the feeling BB does not like Mr Hird and all of his fellow cult members?

Every footy supporter's forum in the land has a thread similar to this one - though many are more hardline, we've been quite restrained.

Not sure how you come to that conclusion Chris

Cheating is cheating tanking is just another version

You are however correct it was deplorable and we are still wearing the problems of that era.

sorry OD. Tanking / list management etc is just that . The prioritising of the development of the team as a whole against the weight of a particular outcome of a game or games which to the club have no meaningful relevance other than to trial and blood players with a view to going forward. This type of managing had been utilised by just about everyone. What happened was it suited someone else to have us scapegoated. This is light years away in difference to a systemic program of injecting illegal drugs ( who's harm is UNKNOWN ) for the distinct purpose of gaining an unfair and sustained advantage, cheating.

List management is just that..organising your assets as you see fit. Why not. It's your team . Taking drugs is taking drugs. They even have LAWS against that !!

PED's in sport is now one of those truths that dares not speak its name. I am convinced it at has happened at every club be it on an organisational or individual level to some degree. The Bombers have the dishonour of being overly ambitous and got caught out. Tanking or list management is another shameful truth.

Interesting that the two clubs most strongly associated with "list management" are now floundering in what appears perpetual mediocrity. It took longer for Carlton to reach rock bottom but the chooks have come home to roost for both. Essendon's sin is getting caught out. Ours is trashing our soul.

sorry OD. Tanking / list management etc is just that . The prioritising of the development of the team as a whole against the weight of a particular outcome of a game or games which to the club have no meaningful relevance other than to trial and blood players with a view to going forward. This type of managing had been utilised by just about everyone. What happened was it suited someone else to have us scapegoated. This is light years away in difference to a systemic program of injecting illegal drugs ( who's harm is UNKNOWN ) for the distinct purpose of gaining an unfair and sustained advantage, cheating.

List management is just that..organising your assets as you see fit. Why not. It's your team . Taking drugs is taking drugs. They even have LAWS against that !!

You make an excellent point about short-term tanking to prepare for a final (not cheating apparently) versus longer-term tanking (to improve next year).

But really BB, you shouldn't underestimate the degree of self-loathing that goes on on this site whenever the smallest opportunity arises. How anyone could raise our tanking in this context, let alone compare our tanking with what EFC has done and is still doing to the game, is beyond me.

Ed: Sorry, I shouldn't have said 'self-loathing' I really meant 'self-flaggelation'

Illegal Performance Enhancing Drugs Note: Delete heading before printing & replace with Thymomodulin or something ( No don't type or something)

Thomas Bellchambers * * * * *

Alex Browne * * * * *

Jake Carlisle * * * * *

Travis Colyer * * * * *

Stewart Crameri * * * * *

Alwyn Davey * * * * *

Luke Davis * * * * *

Cory Dell’Olio * * * *

Ricky Dyson * * * *

Dustin Fletcher * * * * * *

Scott Gumbleton * * * * *

Kyle Hardingham * * * * *

Dyson Heppell * * * * * *

Michael Hibberd * * * * *

David Hille * * * * * *

Heath Hocking * * * *

Cale Hooker * * * * *

Ben Howlett * * * *

Michael Hurley * * * * *

Leroy Jetta * * * *

Brendan Lee * * * *

Sam Lonergan * * * * *

Nathan Lovett-Murray * * * * *

Mark McVeigh * * * *

Jake Melksham * * * *

Angus Monfries * * * * *

David Myers * * * * *

Tayte Pears * * * * * *

Brent Prismall * * * * * *

Patrick Ryder * * * *

Henry Slattery * * * * * *

Brent Stanton * * * *

Ariel Steinberg * * * *

Jobe Watson * * * * * * * *

Not sure how you come to that conclusion Chris

Cheating is cheating tanking is just another version

You are however correct it was deplorable and we are still wearing the problems of that era.

Maybe I have buried my head on that one but I don't see tanking as cheating unless you deliberately loose games (as in match fixing style where everyone buys in). I don't think we did that (close but not quite), and certainly not the players.

Maybe I have buried my head on that one but I don't see tanking as cheating unless you deliberately loose games (as in match fixing style where everyone buys in). I don't think we did that (close but not quite), and certainly not the players.

The problem I see with tanking, list management, whatever you want to call it, is that gambling in sport has meant that teams who choose to experiment with players in different positions on match days to the point where it can (and does) affect on-field performance, are potentially losing people a lot of money. Obviously it's not the clubs intention to do that, but the AFL has to protect the gambling industry as it has become so big (unfortunately).

The problem I see with tanking, list management, whatever you want to call it, is that gambling in sport has meant that teams who choose to experiment with players in different positions on match days to the point where it can (and does) affect on-field performance, are potentially losing people a lot of money. Obviously it's not the clubs intention to do that, but the AFL has to protect the gambling industry as it has become so big (unfortunately).

Sorry Hardtack ..but.what shlt.... if you re dumb enough to bet on an animal that can change its spots at any given time then more fool you. What has it come to when we are supposedly to be protecting gamblers ffs.

A team is entitled to structure itself and play how it bloody well likes. Its not there for the punter. Football doesnt exist for the betting. Explains whats so wrong about so much...the reasons for things have just got so skewed.

Sorry Hardtack ..but.what shlt.... if you re dumb enough to bet on an animal that can change its spots at any given time then more fool you. What has it come to when we are supposedly to be protecting gamblers ffs.

A team is entitled to structure itself and play how it bloody well likes. Its not there for the punter. Football doesnt exist for the betting. Explains whats so wrong about so much...the reasons for things have just got so skewed.

Just an opinion BB... I hate gambling with a passion, but I would say that the gambling industry has so much tied up in the AFL (and in sponsorship) that the AFL most likely feels it has an obligation to be seen to be running a fair and even competition (regardless of what reality tells us).

Just an opinion BB... I hate gambling with a passion, but I would say that the gambling industry has so much tied up in the AFL (and in sponsorship) that the AFL most likely feels it has an obligation to be seen to be running a fair and even competition (regardless of what reality tells us).

I dont ge that argument when talking about our "tanking"

We were losing every week. didnt that make us the safest bet ever?

Smoking, drinking punter. (Shudder)

Just an opinion BB... I hate gambling with a passion, but I would say that the gambling industry has so much tied up in the AFL (and in sponsorship) that the AFL most likely feels it has an obligation to be seen to be running a fair and even competition (regardless of what reality tells us).

I get the notion but its surely a furphy..isnt it. The betting industry is ( for mine ) essentially a parasitic one.. Yeah I have a bet every now and again but I know its a risk...its a bet.. wager..a chance etc.

not a go at you by any means... I just find the whole idea that this game is there to simply serve betting and television somewhat distasteful

Just an opinion BB... I hate gambling with a passion, but I would say that the gambling industry has so much tied up in the AFL (and in sponsorship) that the AFL most likely feels it has an obligation to be seen to be running a fair and even competition (regardless of what reality tells us).

Like greyhound racing!

Gambling corruption and sport are two sides of the same coin. Any gambling pursuit not governed by pure chance is ripe for corruption. It happens in racing, cricket and in I am convinced in our game with all forms of spot betting going on. In the last game, the odds on us scoring the first two goals against Hawthorn would have been quite handsome. Hypothetically, if a few oppositon players were corrupt they could have been on it to ensure we scored first.

There is a clue in what gamblers are known as.

Punter:- Someone who is ill-informed and liable to be taken advantage of. A sucker who lacks inside knowledge or savvy.

Edit :fix typo

Like greyhound racing!

I think Biff has invested heavily in this industry due to it clean cut reputation.

If gamblers are carefully watching form etc in making their bets, they should be capable of adding into their wise deliberations of odds that a club may be tanking in a particular match or season.

Reverand I am in need of your inside knowledge.

Can we get within 5 goals of the dogs at the weekend

Not only will we get within 5 goals, we will lead for the first three quarters before falling away in the last moments to lose by 13 points. That's in my worst dream.

In my best dream, we kick ten in the first quarter and then fight off a determined comeback to win by 14. Take your pick.

When I think about our current situation I am thinking of the words from Romans in the good book.

More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope.

Bloody hell, OD, all we have is hope. Don't give up now. If suffering produces endurance, you and I are going to be around for a long, long time yet.

hird came out on saturday and blamed the media in general for misrepresenting the truth and saying certain journalists had it in for him and were venomous

lets see now who hird/essendon have blamed and attacked strongly for their predicament

1] the afl

2] the government

3] asada

4] the court

5] wada

6] the media

i just wonder who is left to blame? oh that's right....maybe themselves?

The chemical weapons in Iraq

hird came out on saturday and blamed the media in general for misrepresenting the truth and saying certain journalists had it in for him and were venomous

lets see now who hird/essendon have blamed and attacked strongly for their predicament

1] the afl

2] the government

3] asada

4] the court

5] wada

6] the media

i just wonder who is left to blame? oh that's right....maybe themselves?

Beezle would be next on the list after the amount of posting on this thread.

Named because he encouraged other posters to seek out the truth and discuss efc sh1tfullness.

Beezle would be next on the list after the amount of posting on this thread.

Named because he encouraged other posters to seek out the truth and discuss efc sh1tfullness.

i'm waiting for sheedy to wade in and blame the aliens

Beezle would be next on the list after the amount of posting on this thread.

Named because he encouraged other posters to seek out the truth and discuss efc sh1tfullness.

the truth will out...

So much about all of this is so wrong for so many reasons. It can't be left un-dealt with.

It really has exposed the hypocritical underbelly that lay beneath what we all probably thought was a game run is a reasonable fashion, if wanting improvement. We now can see it for all its warts and failings. Im sure many a typical footy punter just wants it all to go away . They're tired of it.Im sure everyone is really but that cant be allowed to promote an environment where wrongdoing can win simply by grinding down those that would seek to enforce the rules. The result would be mayhem leading to anarchy.. Like the proverbial fish this whole fiasco is rotting from the respective heads down. Those that governed at AFL are now conspicuous having done runners !! Those that were entrusted to run a club and look after its well-being are now seen for their corrupt interpretation of values. The vested interests of the various camps alligned with Efc/Hird have been exposed for their blatant and farcical pretences.

Make no mistake this is a watershed event not only for this game but sport both nationally and internationally. That ol' rascal the 'line in the sand' has been made. Those that have erred need to be brought to account and the game cleaned up. Its nothing more that that, unless you are the naughty ones and then apparently its "everyone else's doing!" Not only do the bad'ns need punishing but the public deserves to know the truth. Whether some of it ( public ) wil lactuall be prepared to hear it is possibly another thing entirely.That in itself I find sad.

Tim Watson has reported 'they' are preparing for the appeal to be heard in Switzerland!

If it is it shows Hird/AFL/EFC how serious CAS are about having am unobstructed hearing.

I'm guessing they are getting increasingly nervous.

Tim Watson has reported 'they' are preparing for the appeal to be heard in Switzerland!

If it is it shows Hird/AFL/EFC how serious CAS are about having am unobstructed hearing.

I'm guessing they are getting increasingly nervous.

Or it shows they are all completely ignorant of the process. Unfortunately that isn't as unlikely as it should be.

Tim Watson has reported 'they' are preparing for the appeal to be heard in Switzerland!

If it is it shows Hird/AFL/EFC how serious CAS are about having am unobstructed hearing.

I'm guessing they are getting increasingly nervous.

now wouldnt that be hilarious .......we're going to take the bat and ball...and EVERYTHING.....home !!!!!....our backyard....our rules !!!! lol

I would have thought it to be held in Sydney...thats almost foreign enough to footy !!! ​ but.......