Conflicted. Players should stump up their own cash if they want a PA with teeth.

you mean...like a membership/union fee ?? too sensible

best let Uncle Gil pay for it.........he'll look after you !!

You would make an excellent AFL tribunal member one day.

What have I ever done to you????

Conflicted. Players should stump up their own cash if they want a PA with teeth.

Totally agree...in the rest of this country 'employees' have to contribute to their union...and that is all AFLPA is - a players union.

However, the AFL is happy to fund it (and the AFL Coaches Association) to keep them as puppets on it's strings.

Heres another article that tell it how it is.http://www.sportsfan.com.au/why-the-wada-appeal-is-good-for-football/tabid/91/newsid/161706/default.aspx?cid=SF_LOWDOWN_AFL_article_whythewadaappealisgoodforfootball_140515

I agree with others that this is a very good article and if followed by insightful reader's comments. The point about the spreadsheet mentioned by Hird (presumably prepared by Excel) is particularly significant. Nobody passes on spreadsheets without keeping a copy plus they must have been prepared on a computer (and therefore can possibly be forensically retrieved even if deleted)! If anything, Hird is digging himself in deeper and should not continue in football. Talk about the Demons being fined for bringing the game into disrepute after being found "innocent" of tanking!

............. prepared on a computer (and therefore can be forensically retrieved even if deleted)! .........................

you have much more faith in IT disk forensics than i do........................but then i only worked in IT for 35 years

In normal circumstances i'd agree with you, but i'd strongly argue that due to the sheer weight of injections, the question makes surrounding the legality of the injections and so on they'd have a duty of care to know what the players were being injected with, and keep a record of that incase health issues arise

In normal circumstances i'd agree with you, but i'd strongly argue that due to the sheer weight of injections, the question makes surrounding the legality of the injections and so on they'd have a duty of care to know what the players were being injected with, and keep a record of that incase health issues arise

No representative organisation/union would have automatic access to any "health" related program, unless agreed prior to program taking place.

They would need to go to court, to get any documents relating to this program, regardless of how many injections were given. (Unless the club decided out of the kindness of its heart to send them a copy) why would they do that, when this has all been about hiding and covering up?

I respected Redleg's responses to those who suggested the Tribunal was rigged. But the fact that David Jones who chaired the "we can't join the dots tribunal" was on the panel that let Barry Hall off is clear evidence that he is a guy who will bend his judgement to suit the AFL. I dimly recall a counter that Redleg or someone made to that earlier, but it looks damning to me. Anyone?

Talk about the Demons being fined for bringing the game into disrepute after being found "innocent" of tanking!

Okay, I will.

The tanking saga was almost like a practice run for this drugs thing.

An issue that the AFL clearly didn't want to front up to (until goddam AA blinked while Vlad's back was turned), and even then, tried to massage a result to make it look like they were doing something about it.

The unpalatable scenario was that we would be found guilty of tanking, and then the AFL could rightly be accused of running a corrupt competition, with the sponsorship and legislative nightmares that would follow.

So the [censored] found us guilty of something else.

All the while, we supporters were raging against the machine, city hall, anything, and some were even believing that we never really tanked at all!

Sounds familiar so far ...

Now the differences come in. We didn't have half the media as supporters, who could wage war on our behalf. We didn't have a billionaire standover merchant as president who could negotiate his own penalty. (Imagine if Joe Public could do that in "real life".) We didn't have a statutory body involved who could kick the whole thing upstairs and out of the AFL's grasp.

Vive la difference!!!!!

you have much more faith in IT disk forensics than i do........................but then i only worked in IT for 35 years

Hey DC. Have you bought a new keyboard? One with a Shift key.

you have much more faith in IT disk forensics than i do........................but then i only worked in IT for 35 years

yeah...tis not quite like tv/movies would have it believed eh DC

still short of a hard drive visiting a crematorium youd expect to get something off of it.... you just have to find it !!!!!

I would think its proximity far closer to Donks than Windy Hill. They had the sense I think to not keep the records close....just accessible

I reckon theyve all just been looking in the wrong places. If you had the heads up is easy enough to rebuild a server/files etc .....sans 'what you dont want to return"

Personally Id have though a person's laptop the most likely repository for this sort of stuff...and only saved to a jump-drive...now that WOULD be easy to destroy....no backups there...just gaaaawwwwwwwnnn !! or hidden in a bottom draw somewhere til the right occasion comes along

I respected Redleg's responses to those who suggested the Tribunal was rigged. But the fact that David Jones who chaired the "we can't join the dots tribunal" was on the panel that let Barry Hall off is clear evidence that he is a guy who will bend his judgement to suit the AFL. I dimly recall a counter that Redleg or someone made to that earlier, but it looks damning to me. Anyone?

I understood his position.. shame the reality of the situation suggested it was an entire crock.

You would make an excellent AFL tribunal member one day.

Mods this should be removed, this unbridled character assassination should not be tolerated anywhere in society let alone in the hallowed posts of DLand.

Frog should be flogged for making such a suggestion in the plain sight of minors (Twiggy Forrest and his mates) I am appalled (not by this but generally) not only that I am revolting.

I see the issue here they were using the wrong dots

you have much more faith in IT disk forensics than i do........................but then i only worked in IT for 35 years

No-one would run an injection regime without keeping pretty meticulous records, so they can monitor success and tweak the process by changing frequency and dosages to see the effect. So I have no doubt records existed and are still likely to exist.

If the data was on the disk Deloittes took then some sign of the data or evidence of it being deleted is likely to have been found by Deloittes. Forensic tools are pretty damn good these days and people seldom delete or cover all of their tracks well.

It is likely that the majority of their data was on other devices. Logically I would have thought it would have been on a portable device such as a laptop or ipad, etc... so that it would be easy to carry around and work on, if so they would have stored and shared this data via the cloud and email, most likely using Danks and Co's private accounts. So physical disks found within the club would most likely have little data on them.

Hey DC. Have you bought a new keyboard? One with a Shift key.

no......i'm just very economic with my left hand.......i tend to reserve it for rainy days

I understood his position.. shame the reality of the situation suggested it was an entire crock.

That's bollocks BB. WADA's decision to appeal does not negate the accuracy of reds comments about the standing of the tribunal members and the fact that is offensive to suggest they were somehow complicit in a corrupt, rigged outcome

I think you're getting ahead of yourself

That's bollocks BB. WADA's decision to appeal does not negate the accuracy of reds comments about the standing of the tribunal members and the fact that is offensive to suggest they were somehow complicit in a corrupt, rigged outcome

I think you're getting ahead of yourself

think what you like mate.. they were picked for a reason..

as others have also explained... panels are often selected by gov's and whatever according to shown sympathies etc.

This was no different. The wise ones are not gods...there just people. People are not perfect. Though these were perfect for the job !!

think what you like mate.. they were picked for a reason..

Being picked and being complicit are two very different things!

I see the issue here they were using the wrong dots

Short stories now frog, I've read that one. The one about the golden haired boy and illicit drugs.

No-one would run an injection regime without keeping pretty meticulous records, so they can monitor success and tweak the process by changing frequency and dosages to see the effect. So I have no doubt records existed and are still likely to exist.

If the data was on the disk Deloittes took then some sign of the data or evidence of it being deleted is likely to have been found by Deloittes. Forensic tools are pretty damn good these days and people seldom delete or cover all of their tracks well.

It is likely that the majority of their data was on other devices. Logically I would have thought it would have been on a portable device such as a laptop or ipad, etc... so that it would be easy to carry around and work on, if so they would have stored and shared this data via the cloud and email, most likely using Danks and Co's private accounts. So physical disks found within the club would most likely have little data on them.

well even if you found traces of such a file existing, or even traces of some data, or evidence of it being deleted (files commonly get deleted/recreated/redeleted etc in normal operations anyway) it would be worth nothing unless you could accurately recreate the appropriate (tb4) cells (multiple rows and columns) plus headings . and as someone has pointed out before it is most likely that the appropriate cells were disguised by some euphemistic text anyway

no......i'm just very economic with my left hand.......i tend to reserve it for rainy days

DC what do you do on rainy days?

Being picked and being complicit are two very different things!

I said the tribunal was a crock.. Were they complicit.. well...

They did exactly what the AFL expected them to do. As to the morals or legality of same said such... spin at best.

I said the tribunal was a crock.. Were they complicit.. well...

They did exactly what the AFL expected them to do. As to the morals or legality of same said such... spin at best.

Agreed, but does being predictable enough for the AFL to use to their advantage really make the tribunal complicit/immoral? I say no, it makes those not looking for a fair and impartial hearing both of those things.

Great post, except the first sentence is wrong. The tribunal didn't even consider what Dank did or didn't do at the club because they didn't know what the substance was so it didn't matter. I think if the tribunal joined a dot or two they would have ended up where you say, unfortunately they didn't want to.

And that is exactly correct. Not that they couldn't. But they didn't want to, or they were advised not to.

No-one would run an injection regime without keeping pretty meticulous records, so they can monitor success and tweak the process by changing frequency and dosages to see the effect. So I have no doubt records existed and are still likely to exist.

If the data was on the disk Deloittes took then some sign of the data or evidence of it being deleted is likely to have been found by Deloittes. Forensic tools are pretty damn good these days and people seldom delete or cover all of their tracks well.

It is likely that the majority of their data was on other devices. Logically I would have thought it would have been on a portable device such as a laptop or ipad, etc... so that it would be easy to carry around and work on, if so they would have stored and shared this data via the cloud and email, most likely using Danks and Co's private accounts. So physical disks found within the club would most likely have little data on them.

another interesting aspect

if they used excel for their spreadsheet, then every time they closed the spreadsheet the new spreadsheet is written as a new temp file, then when completed, original file is deleted, then temp file is renamed to the original file.

therefore, assuming the spreadsheet was updated 1,000s of times (likely) there would be 1000,s of versions of that spreadsehet on disk. i.e. one active and 1000,s deleted

with such a heavily updated file, if you were trying to foil forensics you would keep the file on something like flash memory stick (easily destroyed).

alternatively if kept on the laptop's hard drive you'd need to remove and destroy the hard drive to be perfectly safe or use some easily available heavy duty disk cleansing tools, but just removing hard drive would be quickest and probably cheapest

assuming it was dank's laptop he'd probably have just taken it with him.

if he gave copies to anyone at ess he would be smart enough to keep them off the corporate servers, and probably used flash mem sticks. these could be quickly disappeared.

i'd be very surprised too, if dank hasn't still got a copy for his own use