1. Nobody said Tyson was a dud.

2. Nobody said Newton was a wrong choice.

3. Nobody said Van Demon was a wrong choice.

You do yourself no favours at all by being disingenuous. I get your frustration at wrist slashers; I share it. However those players along with Jones all had poor games, people are allowed to point that out.

Your "superstar to dud" comment shows how black and white you see things. Tyson is neither a superstar nor a dud and more to the point, nobody has suggested that he is.

This is brilliant.

Gee only nine pages, Tyson has gone from next superstar to dud, Jones from A to B grade, Van Demon/Newton wrong choices etc etc....gee a week is sure a long time in footy

We were competitive for 3 quarters against the in form midfield in the comp, we had a shocker in the 4th

Take home the positives, Garlett, Grimes on Ballantyne, Brayshaw, Tommy Mc

I think we were flattered by the scoreboard early on 'TDI'.

There were positives and the big one was Brayshaw for me.

I'm a big Tyson fan as most know but he has had a very slow start to the season. Even though he has been in the system for 4 years it is his 2nd full season. 'P-man', I might have to revise my prediction.

Great players can have poor games against the best team in the competition.

One week ago we were all beaming with positivity.

Let's keep this in perspective.

you will never hear TDI say a bad word about a players performance

And he also said we were competitive til 3 quarter time. when in reality we were smashed and the scoreboard flattered us

Satyr is delusional. Has been ever since Neeld was in the chair.

Grimes was thrashed yesterday & that is a fact.

How many times has Roos said that about the side this year?

Listen to his after match presser BR, he continually says we can't compete with Freo and he's said that (about the top teams) on numerous occasions partly in an effort to manage supporter expectations. On one hand it might be good but I think it's questionable because the players hear it as well. Compare that to T Mc's response. I understand the "internal v external" message differential but I haven't heard Beverage or Hinkley (when he initially took over PA) continually say their teams can't compete.

Personally I'd rather hear Roos say that we can beat anyone if we play to our potential. I know it's stretching the envelope but at least I know he believes in the team and what he's doing.

I want McDonald's message not Roos.

If you saw it coming maybe you should have fired off this post 24 hours ago. It's a bit rich coming now. You went early on Neeld and you were right and I too would prefer our coach to be a little more positive about his appraisals of the team but this post comes across as grandstanding. What do you really want to say about Roos?

I didn't say I saw it coming Goodvibes, I said that Roos told me it was coming so I wasn't surprised.

And what do I really want to say? I want to be able to critique Roos and have a debate about the issue rather than an avalanche of posts telling me I have an agenda or "I'm a bit rich". It seems anything "Roos" is off the table for discussion. I don't go along with that. Some here say Roos was out coached on the weekend and that maybe so but given our team and theirs I find that very difficult to assess and frankly I don't have the knowledge to comment so I don't.

But I don't think it's unreasonable to identify points of different with other coaches in the AFL and discuss them. I posted this some time ago and it hardly got a reply.

http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/38249-post-match-discussion-round-3/?p=1077083

I'll let people debate day to day matters. Heavens ProDee seems to think I've run out of ideas while he's busy posting the same thing 18 times in yet another Jack Watts bashing thread. Talk about a vacant space, he's obviously working on the theory that if he says it enough he must be right. At least he's convinced himself.

I'm more interested in other issues but all I get is "agenda" accusations with no discussion.

I don't care if people aren't interested in what I'm interested in but it would be good if posters, including you, played the ball. TBH I was surprised by your response but there you go.

Great players can have poor games against the best team in the competition.

One week ago we were all beaming with positivity.

Let's keep this in perspective.

Personally, I'm not too upset because I never expected us to win but I think Tom McDonald summed things up well in his interview. The players just dropped their heads in the last quarter and whilst Fremantle deserved to win I don't think the score fully refelcted our effort.

The problem is if Jones isn't playing well the whole team doesn't play well and Fyfe is a beast.

Personally I'd rather hear Roos say that we can beat anyone if we play to our potential. I know it's stretching the envelope but at least I know he believes in the team and what he's doing.

'Bob', the danger is the message may seem to be delusional like Hardwick's is.

Personally I don't think he should say anything much at all. I don't like the negative nor the overly positive. Just say we were beaten by a better team on the day and we still have a bit of work to do. Move on....boring I know.

Like you I don't like the negative message the players get by pumping up the opposition as some insurmountable force.

I like Roos being honest. We are above 4 teams now. The rest can still pump us.

It is about time the players took ownership of there own performance. The only way we will improve is when they decide to raise their own physical & mental application and desire

I do not want a coach who sugar coats the situation either positive or negative.

At the moment we are still not good enough. Fact.

It's annoying how the MCG ground announcer doesn't inform the crowd on substitutions. The Melbourne fans in my area saw McKenzie run on and for the best part of 2-3 minutes we were trying to work out who was off. Surely they can just announce it like they used to do.

At the moment we are still not good enough. Fact.

I don't think that was ever in doubt.

At this stage of our development we live and die by our effort - if our effort falls away as it did in the last quarter we will get blown off the park by most.

Personally, I'm not too upset because I never expected us to win but I think Tom McDonald summed things up well in his interview. The players just dropped their heads in the last quarter and whilst Fremantle deserved to win I don't think the score fully reflected our effort.

This. The fact that we were still in touch with Freo until the last 20mins despite their massive dominance in possession is a big problem for them. When we had possession, we were much more direct and got much more value for it.

Can't understand some saying the score flattered us when we kicked only 1 goal 10 in the last half, and missed some very gettable goals.

Freo were not great but their midfield was dominant. Their backs rebounded well but struggled when we moved it quickly and their forward line were well held by the backs but didn't get great delivery.

I would say Freo were not at their best but their midfield and shape stopped anything we could get going and gave them first use so often.

I don't think that was ever in doubt.

At this stage of our development we live and die by our effort - if our effort falls away as it did in the last quarter we will get blown off the park by most.

whilst the young puppy dogs can beat the Swans up there....

From elation to depression in a week. From praise and optimism to criticism and negativity. From feeling that "we are back" to "nothing has changed". From feeling tantalized with what's to come to a return of the sadness which has typified the last decade. From feeling that we are watching "the new Demons" to feeling that we are watching "the same old Demons". From feeling proud to feeling humiliated. From feeling that we have more depth and talent to feeling that we have misread the early signs. From feeling that we are on the rise to feeling that we are being left behind. From feeling that Roos has weaved his magic to feeling that Roos has lost his aura. From feeling impatient for more success to feeling fearful of more crippling losses. What a difference a week makes. Will it get better or will it get worse? I hate this feeling.

Well we are prepared for the next 2 weeks. Let's take it one week at a time!

be careful chook, you will have people saying you want Roos sacked saying what you thought about our ins and outs

I don't think the football dept had their best day on Sunday along with the side but I still subscribe to

"in Roos, Jackson and Goodwin I trust"

Listen to his after match presser BR, he continually says we can't compete with Freo and he's said that (about the top teams) on numerous occasions partly in an effort to manage supporter expectations. On one hand it might be good but I think it's questionable because the players hear it as well. Compare that to T Mc's response. I understand the "internal v external" message differential but I haven't heard Beverage or Hinkley (when he initially took over PA) continually say their teams can't compete.

Personally I'd rather hear Roos say that we can beat anyone if we play to our potential. I know it's stretching the envelope but at least I know he believes in the team and what he's doing.

I want McDonald's message not Roos.

I didn't say I saw it coming Goodvibes, I said that Roos told me it was coming so I wasn't surprised.

And what do I really want to say? I want to be able to critique Roos and have a debate about the issue rather than an avalanche of posts telling me I have an agenda or "I'm a bit rich". It seems anything "Roos" is off the table for discussion. I don't go along with that. Some here say Roos was out coached on the weekend and that maybe so but given our team and theirs I find that very difficult to assess and frankly I don't have the knowledge to comment so I don't.

But I don't think it's unreasonable to identify points of different with other coaches in the AFL and discuss them. I posted this some time ago and it hardly got a reply.

http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/38249-post-match-discussion-round-3/?p=1077083

I'll let people debate day to day matters. Heavens ProDee seems to think I've run out of ideas while he's busy posting the same thing 18 times in yet another Jack Watts bashing thread. Talk about a vacant space, he's obviously working on the theory that if he says it enough he must be right. At least he's convinced himself.

I'm more interested in other issues but all I get is "agenda" accusations with no discussion.

I don't care if people aren't interested in what I'm interested in but it would be good if posters, including you, played the ball. TBH I was surprised by your response but there you go.

I somewhat agree with you Bob. While it's good to keep things realistic, this constant talk of 'oh they are a good side' and 'we are a long way behind' seems to fuel the lack of self belief. I don't want people to come out and say we are expecting to finish top 4, but I'm sick of the excuses like 'we are coming from a long way back'. Got to get rid of the loser mentality.

Freo were not great but their midfield was dominant. Their backs rebounded well but struggled when we moved it quickly and their forward line were well held by the backs but didn't get great delivery.

I would say Freo were not at their best but their midfield and shape stopped anything we could get going and gave them first use so often.

There is a trend these days that when a dominant side drops off during a game, the opposition(even pathetic ones) get a run on. Been happening all season. We buck the trend. There still is some serious leadership problems at the club. It's all mental attitude. Jones may be a great leader by example but he can't make horses drink. I am warming more and more every game at TMac as a future complete leader. It is an insult that he hasn't been formally recognised on this forum and still not on the banner whilst Grimes is still there.

Edited May 4, 201510 yr by america de cali

It's annoying how the MCG ground announcer doesn't inform the crowd on substitutions. The Melbourne fans in my area saw McKenzie run on and for the best part of 2-3 minutes we were trying to work out who was off. Surely they can just announce it like they used to do.

agreed. They seem to make so many meaningless trivial announcements but leave us in the dark on this.

whilst the young puppy dogs can beat the Swans up there....

to your point - the dogs certainly don't have the talent of Sydney - but they brought the effort for the full game....

Roos doesn't have to get rid of a loser mentality, the players on the ground do.

The facts don't lie, we are still light years away from the top sides when the heat is applied.

Satyr is delusional. Has been ever since Neeld was in the chair.

Grimes was thrashed yesterday & that is a fact.

Who thrashed him?

There is a trend these days that when a dominant side drops off during a game, the opposition(even pathetic ones) get a run on. Been happening all season. We buck the trend. There still is some serious leadership problems at the club. It's all mental attitude. Jones may be a great leader by example but he can't make horses drink. I am warming more and more every game at TMac as a future complete leader. It is an insult that he hasn't been formally recognised on this forum and still not on the banner whilst Grimes is still there.

T Macs Interview yesterday blew me away.

First time i have heard him speak.

Captain waiting in the wings.

Gee only nine pages, Tyson has gone from next superstar to dud, Jones from A to B grade, Van Demon/Newton wrong choices etc etc....gee a week is sure a long time in footy

We were competitive for 3 quarters against the in form midfield in the comp, we had a shocker in the 4th

Take home the positives, Garlett, Grimes on Ballantyne, Brayshaw, Tommy Mc

HYPERBOLE

1. Nobody said Tyson was a dud.

2. Nobody said Newton was a wrong choice.

3. Nobody said Van Demon was a wrong choice.

You do yourself no favours at all by being disingenuous. I get your frustration at wrist slashers; I share it. However those players along with Jones all had poor games, people are allowed to point that out.

Your "superstar to dud" comment shows how black and white you see things. Tyson is neither a superstar nor a dud and more to the point, nobody has suggested that he is.

REALITY

Firstly, Freo are absolutely the real deal and barring a bad run with injuries are certain to finish top two. The media has perpetrated this myth that they dropped away badly last year but they finished 3^rd after the home and away, lost a cracking final away to Sydney in the wet, and had Port on toast the following week – they didn’t kick straight and paid the price. You only had to watch them when we got the ball yesterday to see how well drilled they are. Ross Lyon is just a fantastic coach.

The no. 1 factor for our loss yesterday was the centre clearances. I have never seen us, even in the real dark days, get smashed at the centre bounces like we were yesterday. It was a procession, particularly in the first quarter (no wonder Roosy gave our boys a spray) and the last 20 minutes. Sandilands was obviously a key but Jamar was competitive, however even when he got his hands on it Freo took it away. Not only were they getting the first possession but quite often the takeaways were super clean. Mundy and Fyfe are guns – at one point in the second quarter, Fyfe had 4 clearances, followed by a whole host of players on 1. Give him the Brownlow now. Their midfield depth is fantastic too – Barlow, Neale, Hill, Suban, Pearce.

Our decision making is better than it used to be but still hurts us. Freo’s ability to get back in numbers seemed to stifle our willingness to take a risk and move the ball on at times, particularly in the first quarter. We were stagnant. Jonesy had two or three bad turnovers early with either telegraphed kicks or poor choices and that was a bit unusual for him. Having said that, he wasn’t Robinson Crusoe.

Positives –

Brayshaw looks a natural footballer, loved his ability to neutralise the one on one marking contest inside 50 with Fyfe in the last couple of minutes. Just needs to work on his kicking a bit.

Garlett gives us some real polish and pace up forward, really surprised at his marking ability for a small. Having said that, the open goal miss in the third was frustrating

Tommy Mac was fantastic. You can see the confidence growing more every week, he’s a real leader and has reduced the decision making errors significantly. Will still make them from time to time because he takes the game on but nowhere near as many as last year

Hogan was beaten by McPharlin but still contributed with nine marks. We need more players who still contribute strongly even when beaten by their opponent.

Listen to his after match presser BR, he continually says we can't compete with Freo and he's said that (about the top teams) on numerous occasions partly in an effort to manage supporter expectations. On one hand it might be good but I think it's questionable because the players hear it as well. Compare that to T Mc's response. I understand the "internal v external" message differential but I haven't heard Beverage or Hinkley (when he initially took over PA) continually say their teams can't compete.

Personally I'd rather hear Roos say that we can beat anyone if we play to our potential. I know it's stretching the envelope but at least I know he believes in the team and what he's doing.

I want McDonald's message not Roos.

.

I want realism without doubting the players ability. The flipside to what Roos does is to sprout the rubbish Malthouse did pre-season (I cant possibly see how this side will lose) or Hardwick last week (we can beat anybody). They sounded ridiculous. I think Roos last year talked players and team down too much but his balance this year has been realism.