I agree it's the older players that are the problem and the leadership is still poor.

Viney and Salem have gone up a level. Brayshaw and Hogan are the real deal.

Tom McD is heading for the elite category.

Jamar and Cross are on their last legs and will be phased out. I think Garland may soon make way for Frost - I was a fan but am having doubts.

I think the plusses outweigh the negatives.

Absolute reality check for the older players coming up this week IMO. Careers on the line.

Lets see what they are really made of.

I have total faith in what Roos is doing, but more and more I start to wonder if the only thing that can truly establish a new culture is a complete list turnover.

There's just this bizarre, lingering dark cloud that seems to hang over the head of the players.

I still want to know what happened to Jones.

If he isn't injured or sick than this must have been the oddest drop in form ever seen in the history of AFL.

I take comfort in the fact that we've played more good than bad quarter this season it's just that our bad is so bad it is the worst in the competition

well we went to Adelaide in Round 4 last season and we were 0-3 and we were all resigned to the fact we would get flogged like we always do in S.A, and look what happened.... could history repeat?

Maybe... I was at the 88 GF... like 2000 very little combat put up by the majority of players that day.

correct. no one is scared of us. 2000 GF was a bad day. just belted up by the bully.... we've never got over it.

I still want to know what happened to Jones.

If he isn't injured or sick than this must have been the oddest drop in form ever seen in the history of AFL.

I take comfort in the fact that we've played more good than bad quarter this season it's just that our bad is so bad it is the worst in the competition

What gives me total faith In Roos is his ability to read a situation clinically and without emotion, then determine the root of the problem. He was saying months ago that we are capable of very good football, but we are also capable of very, very bad football.

He correctly called this months ago; the gap between our best and worst is simply enormous and he is trying to get consistency out of his players.

I have total faith in what Roos is doing, but more and more I start to wonder if the only thing that can truly establish a new culture is a complete list turnover.

There's just this bizarre, lingering dark cloud that seems to hang over the head of the players.

I dont think the list needs totally turning over.

But this year needs 10 more ...the next 10..then maybe down to 6-7

Roos wont coach this team to finals im now convinced. Hell turn us around but i reckon he won a cup off a very very good team that believed in him. We have a so -so team that dont all quite get it.

Maybe his protégé is ?

I dont care who makes up the team that climbs the dias. Why would you.

Hopefully Roos can guide the team that coaches the team that does.

Saturday showed everyone has a way to go

This next trade period will hopefully be the last major list culling, enabling Roos to form the list exactly as he wants it.

Likewise, I expect another 8-10 players to be culled.

Your last sentence is a question I've asked for years. I've coached underage teams and I've coached senior players, and one thing that I can never understand is how they expect to make up space on a player if they start 1 Metre behind him, be it a stoppage or around the ground. Our players are always half a body behind at stoppages. You watch every Centre bounce where we were mauled, our players aren't in front holding their ground. They are either half a step behind with minimal body pressure, or they are plain missing. Macca is the best example. He has a hand on his opponent all game, giving him the shitz. Viney is another. I just want to see them hunt the ball a lot harder, make sure you're close enough so that your tackles stick and they can't get the ball away. Watching the replay, you see why we get goals flooded 8 or 9 in a row. We do the same thing every time. Do they play tighter when they have conceded goals? No. Do they niggle or try to block their opposite number? No. Do they even bother to start in front at a contest? No. It's the most basic things that this team still can't do and that is why we are opened up more than a call girls legs on a Saturday night.

So what are the coaches doing? Is that why Roos mentioned that players and coaches have to lift for next week?

So what are the coaches doing? Is that why Roos mentioned that players and coaches have to lift for next week?

i, if no one else was wondering what the coaches were doing sat !

The coaching failed Saturday as much as the players.

It was the coaches that decided to change a winning team with two underdone players.

It was the coaches that didn't find a way to stop the run of goals from the Giants after spending 18 months teaching the players how to defend.

Well the good news is that problem had nothing to do with Grimesy

.....

It was the coaches that decided to change a winning team with two underdone players.

It was the coaches that didn't find a way to stop the run of goals from the Giants after spending 18 months teaching the players how to defend.

its a question isnt it.

The coaching failed Saturday as much as the players.

It was the coaches that decided to change a winning team with two underdone players.

It was the coaches that didn't find a way to stop the run of goals from the Giants after spending 18 months teaching the players how to defend.

I don't think 2 players was the reason we lost...

Just took a look at the Demonland Banner, 10 players. I count 2 who represented properly yesterday.

I still want to know what happened to Jones.

If he isn't injured or sick than this must have been the oddest drop in form ever seen in the history of AFL.

I take comfort in the fact that we've played more good than bad quarter this season it's just that our bad is so bad it is the worst in the competition

OMG the guy has hardly had a bad game in several years. Give him a break.

well we went to Adelaide in Round 4 last season and we were 0-3 and we were all resigned to the fact we would get flogged like we always do in S.A, and look what happened.... could history repeat?

We actually beat Carlton after starting 0-3. Adelaide was our 2nd win.

I think it'll be an 8-10 goal loss. As with last week, once the Crows get on a roll, they will steamroll anyone they're playing. We have shown our worst at the worst possible time. 14 goals in a row! If even a shadow of that performance shows up next week, it will be a horror show.

Our best is okay.

But our worst is horrific. Not just bad. Just downright mindblowing, shockingly, gobsmackingly bad.

Jesse Hogan leads the league in contested marks.

Shame the loss has taken the shine off how incredibly good this kid looks already.

His first half was a huge positive from an otherwise deplorable day. That and McDonald's job on Cameron, towelled him up.

Hogan is gonna be special, looks so at home and LOVES the physical stuff. Also LOVES to have the responsibility.

OMG the guy has hardly had a bad game in several years. Give him a break.

it wasn't his fault .

Did he have a good day ? .No

Was he alone...pffffft ...lol....

Only our second game with a lot of new recruits. While I am absolutely P****ed at our lack of pressure in the second half I am pleased with the brand of football that we played in the first half. More time together and greater competition for spots in the team will see us improve. We are not going to be a major threat but we will improve this year. get used to seeing so really good footy as well as some really poor footy until we actually start to function as a team.

well we went to Adelaide in Round 4 last season and we were 0-3 and we were all resigned to the fact we would get flogged like we always do in S.A, and look what happened.... could history repeat?

No

OMG the guy has hardly had a bad game in several years. Give him a break.

It's because he's hardly had a bad game in years that I'm wondering what is going on.

He didn't train on Tuesday, looked spent at every contest and barely got a touch.

This isn't the first time he's been tagged but it's probably the first time in years he played very very badly. I'm sure he'll bounce back, I just hope that whatever was bugging him will be gone by Saturday. Because no Jones = no Melbourne.

I dont think the list needs totally turning over.

But this year needs 10 more ...the next 10..then maybe down to 6-7

Roos wont coach this team to finals im now convinced. Hell turn us around but i reckon he won a cup off a very very good team that believed in him. We have a so -so team that dont all quite get it.

Maybe his protégé is ?

I dont care who makes up the team that climbs the dias. Why would you.

Hopefully Roos can guide the team that coaches the team that does.

Saturday showed everyone has a way to go

Here's who I would be looking to turn over at seasons end

Watts (trade) must have some currency lets just cash in these chips already

Garland (free agent) let him go, take whatever pick we get for him, he's too inconsistent

Cross (retire) old man time catches up with everyone eventually

Grimes (trade) try to find a vandenBerg type with better skills and a stronger body with the low pick we'll get for him

Howe (trade) if he can attract a late first rounder like was rumoured last offseason that would have to be a win for us

McKenzie (delist)

Gawn (delist)

Toumpas (trade) steak knives in a trade with Adelaide or Port for someone decent

Bail (delist)

Trengove (retire) don't think he'll make it back unfortunately

Geelong would be a good start. They look absolutely pus so far. I acknowledge they've played strong sides early, though.

Theyve played two teams who look like they'll be top 4 - they'll slide but I don't imagine they're gonna slide out of the 8.