Both of these players don't get enough of the contested ball and don't impact the game enough to be a certainty for our best 22, sure they have all the talent in the world off the ground but at the moment I don't think we can play both of these at the same time, it's either one or the other for me at this stage.

I suggest everyone watches Jack Watts final quarter against Richmond when we won last year, he shows how good he is in patches, that day his work rate went up and he was along with chunk the match winner.

Funny how it comes back to work rate.

Both of these players don't get enough of the contested ball and don't impact the game enough to be a certainty for our best 22, sure they have all the talent in the world off the ground but at the moment I don't think we can play both of these at the same time, it's either one or the other for me at this stage.

Disagree.

I think we can get a better gauge on Jimmy at the end of this season, his 3rd. I thought we would have seen more from him given his performances in the SANFL as a 16yo but he has struggled with form, injury and settling in to AFL requirements to date.

Jack is going ok, he's not the big forward we hoped for but I expect him to come on a bit more this year and be a valuable member of the team.

As for them both playing in the same team, they are very different types of player. It will depend on form.

You always need to have a balance of outside and inside players - I don't think they are playing the same role really. Watts is a high HF who will be asked to patrol about 80m out and get the ball inside the 50 with his feet. Toumpas may have the same skillset but he won't be able to play a high HF role - he might be on a wing and got through the backline.

These two will benefit when the team gets first use of the footy and when we move the ball quickly from defence and get space for them to get into - but these aspects rely on others to get them the ball. We just have to get the footy out of the middle more, and to move it quicker out of defence.

I think we can get a better gauge on Jimmy at the end of this season, his 3rd. I thought we would have seen more from him given his performances in the SANFL as a 16yo but he has struggled with form, injury and settling in to AFL requirements to date.

Jack is going ok, he's not the big forward we hoped for but I expect him to come on a bit more this year and be a valuable member of the team.

As for them both playing in the same team, they are very different types of player. It will depend on form.

I think they are both suited to the outside midfielder/forward

I think rpfc has it right. Also, you can't guage Jimmy Toumpas on his first two seasons which were interrupted by lack of a full pre season and by injury. I saw a fair bit of him in his last year at under 18s for SA and I wouldn't give up on his capacity to become a valuable player in his own right and one with enough different attributes to Jack Watts as to not make them mutually exclusive of each other in a footy team.

Both of these players don't get enough of the contested ball and don't impact the game enough to be a certainty for our best 22, sure they have all the talent in the world off the ground but at the moment I don't think we can play both of these at the same time, it's either one or the other for me at this stage.

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Agree with one not the other.

Watts has been given enough chances to own a spot in the 22 and hasn't grabbed the chances with both hands.

Toumpas has not had a preseason except for this one. This time he has grabbed the chance, I see him being an integral part of the team.

I've been watching some replays on Foxtel recently and I have been impressed with Watts work rate. He ain't a monster, but his run and attack was A LOT better than previous years. Roos has instilled some confidence in him IMO.

The other thing I've noticed is when Watts is getting the ball, we score at a much better rate than when he isn't getting the ball.

In previous years I alwaays felt that Jack was too worried at making mistakes or doing things wrong. In the few replays I've seen recently, he is working hard without fear. He will only get better. Particularly now we have ball hunters who will get the ball to him.

i actually thought watts was pretty okay - in patches - in 2014. and that game of his against richmond was sensational - as good as jones was in the last, i thought watts was actual matchwinner. watts has always hinted that he has the ability to be a very, very good footballer.

toumpas i just don't see as a modern afl footballer. he's too slow by thought and deed, and lacks any discernible weapons, while his disposal is iffy at best. as yet, too slow to be an outside midfielder, not good enough to be an inside. i have hope that he can show far, far more in 2015. as others have said, i'm holding judgement til we see what his third year on an afl list brings.

I wish jack would realize he can crash into blokes and hurt them, keep his feet in a contest and not run around in circles like a fairy then handball it when a kick was the first and vest option....

Id give jimmy 2 more years to prove himself before I'd even consider jettisoning him. He will be a very good player IMO but he will take time.

Edited February 14, 201510 yr by Deemotivated

I suggest everyone watches Jack Watts final quarter against Richmond when we won last year, he shows how good he is in patches, that day his work rate went up and he was along with chunk the match winner.

Funny how it comes back to work rate.

You can't judge a player on a quarter, you need to look at the body of work.

Watts is another player who needs to improve markedly. If the side improves as we hope, he will need to lift the bar to be guaranteed a game.

i think it's far too early to tell with Toumpas, but for mine it is very obvious that Watts is lacking that last 25% that could make him great, and I'm sorry but it is the aggression.

I know that there are inside, and outside players, and I know that not every player has to be a rampaging Viney, but there is always that "Watts" moment that costs us somehow; the slip at the in opportune time, being out bodied and worried off it by guys like Bennell and Wells, not chasing a free ball at 100% when there is a 50/50 ball to be one and it's just him and one other. Sometimes they are costly, sometimes they aren't, but until he gets that competitiveness in him he just keeping a seat warm for someone else.

Both of these players don't get enough of the contested ball and don't impact the game enough to be a certainty for our best 22, sure they have all the talent in the world off the ground but at the moment I don't think we can play both of these at the same time, it's either one or the other for me at this stage.

Hahaha!!! What a waste of time these comments are. All the Watts/Toump doubters will quickly jump on board during the season.

I can't wait for the "I told you so's" to come. It's going to be fun to watch some eat their piece of the humble pie being baked right now.

See you then.

I just mean jabber watts Has shown a capacity to be elite, he simply needs to do it more consistasntly

I just mean jabber watts Has shown a capacity to be elite, he simply needs to do it more consistasntly

Colin Sylvia says hi

I just mean jabber watts Has shown a capacity to be elite, he simply needs to do it more consistasntly

Couldn't agree more, my fear is that he will be one of many who has shown this capacity but never have it realised for reasons that exist between the ears.

I sincerely hope he does become elite.

With hogan, dawes + third tall it givr Watts a chance to become a handy crumbing forward.

He is extremely fast and has very good hands below the knees.

Toumpas seems to want to play like isaac smith but at this stage is lacking both speed and endurance

I've been watching some replays on Foxtel recently and I have been impressed with Watts work rate. He ain't a monster, but his run and attack was A LOT better than previous years. Roos has instilled some confidence in him IMO.

The other thing I've noticed is when Watts is getting the ball, we score at a much better rate than when he isn't getting the ball.

In previous years I alwaays felt that Jack was too worried at making mistakes or doing things wrong. In the few replays I've seen recently, he is working hard without fear. He will only get better. Particularly now we have ball hunters who will get the ball to him.

Nail on head.

I'm really optimistic Jimmy might show us a lot more this year, this is his first clear run at it, but that also means no excuses

Jack Watts has never played in a strong team ther moment he does you watch how good he'll look when he can be fed the ball on a platter.. He in mind has the ability to play like Goddard..

I dislike people who say Watts hasn't earnt a spot/played well enough. He played 22 games and in the games we won he played a significant role in our scoring. He had his best season finishing top 10 in the bnf. He is unlikely to be a power forward, but his continual work rate will be rewarded with better users of the football.

He is by far our best user of the football by foot and even our best decision maker, but let's just get rid of him because he doesn't win enough hard ball. We start winning the midfield battle and are able to get clean possession in his hands. We will start to win more games

Demonlands old wipping boy Vs Demonlands new wipping boy.

I want to see how they go when our team actually starts winning games.

Jack Watts has never played in a strong team ther moment he does you watch how good he'll look when he can be fed the ball on a platter.. He in mind has the ability to play like Goddard..

Never been part of a strong team or be a contributor to help make a strong team.

We cant judge Jimmy yet. Wait till he plays this year. He looks cherry ripe. Watts however seems to still be a bit ginger. Last I saw hes running laps and spending time on the bike. still got some op issues its sounds like. We will see hat happens with jack.