Jeremy Howe down forward in 2015. Lamumba takes the tall HBF spot.

Howe showed in 2013 he is a very dangerous forward and can play the Gunston role alongside some tall timber.

We NEED more goalkickers.

I would've been pretty annoyed if the club traded Howe.

He is loyal, he is talented, he is super fit, he is apparently very coachable, he is a favourite around the joint, the kids love him, and he has 'X factor'.

Trading him for pick 6 would've been a very bad decision. But some here think this is all a game - like dungeons and dragons or some carp like that where you're continually trading stuff with other teenagers.

Whereas I see this as building/maintaining a footy club. And, in that context, Howe is absolutely a required player for this club.

Howe deep forward for the speccy off the long Bomb. Hogan con go for the exploratory lead and attract the best defender Dawes wont be doubled team every time so able to take a few marks. With crumbers and mid field runners with there should be plenty of opportunity to develop a good scoring lineup. With Watts able to deliver off HFF there can even be some accurate direction to the best option. The beauty of this as well is the the Mid fielders dont have to always run so deep and can have better output with less physical demand. also better placed for defensive effort or rebound.

Doesn't matter if he gets the third or fourth defender, when he's closely physically attended, he hardly gets near the ball. His talents are there when there is space around him and when he has a CLEAR run at the leap and mark. His one on one physicality is very poor, and up to this stage, he can just be physically negated up forward. Which is why his best footy this year was intercept marking (space)or helping out as the second person of a double team. The long bomb speccy scenario, whilst it would be great, is not in JH's kit bag.

Doesn't matter if he gets the third or fourth defender, when he's closely physically attended, he hardly gets near the ball. His talents are there when there is space around him and when he has a CLEAR run at the leap and mark. His one on one physicality is very poor, and up to this stage, he can just be physically negated up forward. Which is why his best footy this year was intercept marking (space)or helping out as the second person of a double team. The long bomb speccy scenario, whilst it would be great, is not in JH's kit bag.

I kind of agree with you here although I don't think it's his lack of physicality as such but more the illegal blocking that seems to be legal these days.Howe most definitely cannot play deep forward, they will not let him fly.

His best position in my mind is high half forward to wing where he can use his athletic abilities. He will be a great get of jail card for a defender, just kick it to Howe and no other wing/mid/hb will beat him in the air.

I would've been pretty annoyed if the club traded Howe.

He is loyal, he is talented, he is super fit, he is apparently very coachable, he is a favourite around the joint, the kids love him, and he has 'X factor'.

Trading him for pick 6 would've been a very bad decision. But some here think this is all a game - like dungeons and dragons or some carp like that where you're continually trading stuff with other teenagers.

Whereas I see this as building/maintaining a footy club. And, in that context, Howe is absolutely a required player for this club.

Just a question - how exactly do you know he is loyal ?

Just a question - how exactly do you know he is loyal ?

probably bleeds red and.....uhhh ......... well thats close enough surely

Just a question - how exactly do you know he is loyal ?

Strikes me that way given all of his actions and statements about the club for the whole time he's been on the list. I have seen no evidence from him, at all, to suggest any cause for concern.

What strikes you that he may not be loyal?

Strikes me that way given all of his actions and statements about the club for the whole time he's been on the list. I have seen no evidence from him, at all, to suggest any cause for concern.

What strikes you that he may not be loyal?

The profession as a whole has all but erased loyalty.

I call players many things but the days of me labelling a player as loyal are over. Players will be "married" to a club if you can tick a few boxes - money, relationship with coach, chances of success - a combination of the 3.

People label Nathan Jones as the probably the most loyal player at our club - the contract before last, by all reports he was strongly tempted by an Essendon offer.

I would have thought a close second behind Jones on the "loyalty" scale would have been Trengove - but the club was ready to jettison him. A combination of players actions and club actions have made the notion of loyalty obsolete.

Maybe I now have a different definition of loyal - as long as all that is important to a player is covered then he will be loyal to the club.

Doesn't matter if he gets the third or fourth defender, when he's closely physically attended, he hardly gets near the ball. His talents are there when there is space around him and when he has a CLEAR run at the leap and mark. His one on one physicality is very poor, and up to this stage, he can just be physically negated up forward. Which is why his best footy this year was intercept marking (space)or helping out as the second person of a double team. The long bomb speccy scenario, whilst it would be great, is not in JH's kit bag.

Sorry That was the scenario I was really painting where Hogan Dawes have cleared the forward line taking their opponents with them and Howe has space to run into the long bomb for the big mark or the isolated get . He did seem to have a bit of pace and flexibility and may have learnt a few of the defenders tricks in his time on the back line that was constantly under seige. Plus he's a year older maybe a bit heavier? able to use his bulk a bit better. I have said before he reminds me of Lynch who was a lightweight flyer went into defence at Fitzroy bulked up and became a pretty handy forward at Brisbane.

We are whining because now loyalty is a two way street.

Players can pick and choose more than they ever could and clubs - who are accustomed to picking and choosing as they desire - have to deal with that.

I do agree that judging one's 'loyalty' is difficult. Until they show disloyalty...

Howe is lovely to watch take a mark but he doesn't currently work hard enough as a third tall and is not a good kick coming off half back. His defensive game improved last year but only because there' s not much choice when in defence. He is another not quite a key position not quite a midfielder that I would happily give up for a decent, not as showy true mid.

Howe is lovely to watch take a mark but he doesn't currently work hard enough as a third tall and is not a good kick coming off half back. His defensive game improved last year but only because there' s not much choice when in defence. He is another not quite a key position not quite a midfielder that I would happily give up for a decent, not as showy true mid.

he's Almost, caught up to high flying Robbo's standard, almost. still a level to go to catch up to that poor standard.

Howe has some way to go to become The Team Player

.He can do it, but does he want to?

There have been plenty worse than Howe. Leave him alone I say.

There have been plenty worse than Howe. Leave him alone I say.

Not sure anyone's saying much else other than he needs to 'lift' his game. He'll soon have lots of competition for his spot...that being ...just a name on the big list

Sorry That was the scenario I was really painting where Hogan Dawes have cleared the forward line taking their opponents with them and Howe has space to run into the long bomb for the big mark or the isolated get . He did seem to have a bit of pace and flexibility and may have learnt a few of the defenders tricks in his time on the back line that was constantly under seige. Plus he's a year older maybe a bit heavier? able to use his bulk a bit better. I have said before he reminds me of Lynch who was a lightweight flyer went into defence at Fitzroy bulked up and became a pretty handy forward at Brisbane.

Sleepy Lynch bulked up all right.

Showed Essendon the way.

We were offered pick 6 at 5 mins to midnight with no chance to do anything with the pick. It was a classic bomb throwing exercise by GWS.

Raise his expectations, put some niggle into us, perhaps make him think he can leave next year etc etc. GWS are p ricks.

Just to reinforce this point (!) Mark Stevens tweeted tonight that GWS offered pick 4 and pick 7 for Heppell and were rebuffed. I have no doubt they were trying to create mischief rather than generate a genuine trade.

There have been plenty worse than Howe. Leave him alone I say.

geez, theres been hundreds worse then Howe along the decades... but very Few have 1/10th of his natural ability... he needs a 2ndary shake up before he's goes.

this is it in 2015, he has to make it happen. he has to step up or go.

Aside from the fact I think your first sentence is C$%^&, it is kind of proven with your second sentence - you think he can have a poor year and we'll get a great trade for him next year.

No. I'm astounded to read we were offered pick 6. GWS obviously see him as a marketing machine with his high marking, because he doesn't offer enough at this point. I just don't see him as a game breaker and we've been saying for at least two seasons now that 'Howe will be elite'. When do we see that? Each to their own, jnrmac.

We were offered pick 6 at 5 mins to midnight with no chance to do anything with the pick. It was a classic bomb throwing exercise by GWS.

Raise his expectations, put some niggle into us, perhaps make him think he can leave next year etc etc. GWS are p ricks.

No, we weren't. It was reported on Demonland earlier on Thursday or perhaps even late Wednesday that we'd been offered pick 6 for Howe. His manager was said to have approached Collingwood to see if they could better the offer, because Howe wasn't keen on GWS.

So he is a high half forward?

He impressed across half back which isn't hard - it is the easiest place to play on the ground - but he still made simple mistakes, if he gets pushed back into the forward line it will be as a periphery role he doesn't seem comfortable with.

Hogan, Dawes, and the resting ruck will get the targets up there, with Watts and Kent most likely being asked to lead strong up the wings (something Watts is very good at despite the hate he gets). Watts' skills are better than Howe and Kent's work over the footy looks to be developing very well.

I would love to be able to say that Howe could make it as a mid, or a wing, that gets forward, gets back and makes himself important.

But right now, I see a guy that likes to take marks and has a coach that 'made do' with that skill set in 2014.

Bingo.

I think people get seduced by the idea that Howe can sit on Dawes' or Hogan's shoulders when they aren't plucking marks themselves. You've gotta offer more than that in modern footy. He improved his set shot kicking in 2013, but unless he develops a few extra bows I'd look to get something for him at the trade table.

Just to reinforce this point (!) Mark Stevens tweeted tonight that GWS offered pick 4 and pick 7 for Heppell and were rebuffed. I have no doubt they were trying to create mischief rather than generate a genuine trade.

Why? I'd probably give up picks 4 and 7 for Heppell. Absolute gun and there's no guarantee you'll get an elite player with either pick.

Howe is a very frustrating player for mine.

He is a magnificent field kick, yet his set shot is not the most accurate. In fact, he's more inclined to kick the tougher one's than nail the easier one's.

But he has talent, that's undebatable.

Howe is a very frustrating player for mine.

he's got mates

but yes..hes a bit of a 2 trick pony... need far more from Howey