I think this needs to be challenged on a couple of counts.

He is at TAC level an exceptional footballer. In terms of talent I would not be surprised if he is rated by some recruiters as highly as Petracca.

The modern game does not require outstanding pace to play in the midfield. In fact many of the top midfielders in the game wouldn't necessarily be defined as quick. You do need a great work rate, a strong body, good game sense and the ability to work in traffic amongst other things.

Don't forget those qualities that took this bloke to an elite level in boxing. As mentioned earlier he also has an arm span of 204cm.

wow...that some positive Ape factor there !! 10 cm... I have about 5 and its very handy in sport...but 10-11...golly !!!

Why pick a guy that's just done his knee and will have question marks going fwd, when you've got the opportunity of selecting your gun full forward for the next 15 years in McCartin?

It just doesn't make sense.

Edited November 9, 201410 yr by Bring-Back-Powell

I am not sure if he is our man, I do know that we have been tracking him for ages and have been speaking to him and his family several times recently so apparently we are still very interested.

I am excited by a strong and wiry, hard working player with a mad attack on the footy who has a very good sidestep, great judgement and game awareness and the ability to mark the footy over others with arms that go up like giant testicles.

A player like this who could perhaps make the transition into the midfield is hard to go past. I look forward to tracking his career wherever he ends up.

The issue with the Prendergast years is that we took players in the first round who had glaring physical or mental deficiencies, players that were incomplete. From reports this bloke has the physical and psychological attributes necessary to do well.

Edited November 9, 201410 yr by jabberwocky

I am not sure if he is our man, I do know that we have been tracking him for ages and have been speaking to him and his family several times recently so apparently we are still very interested.

I am excited by a strong and wiry, hard working player with a mad attack on the footy who has a very good sidestep, great judgement and game awareness and the ability to mark the footy over other other with arms that go up like giant testicles.

A player like this who could perhaps make the transition into the midfield is hard to go past. I look forward to tracking his career wherever he ends up.

The issue with the Prendergast years is that we took players in the first round who had glaring physical or mental deficiencies, players that were incomplete. From reports this bloke has the physical and psychological attributes necessary to do well.

Uuuuuummmm.... I think the word you were looking for is 'tentacles'......

He seems to be a good footballer with an exceptional attitude rather than an exceptional footballer with a good attitude.

His perceived lack of pace is a concern. The modern game requires a bit of toe especially if he is to move to the midfield.

Having said all that I respect our current recruiters and will back their judgement.

Lack of pace a concern??

His pace is not an issue. Even look at his highlights his agility is actually quite good.

Nathan Fyfe, Scott Pendlebury, David Mundy.

3 tall midfielders who are actually quite slow by foot. Does that effect them?

Lever in fact looks to be a lot quicker than those blokes.

Edited November 9, 201410 yr by dazzledavey36

Mundy is a good comparison for Lever. Key defender that may play midfield. Obviously Lever is stronger overhead but has done an ACL.

I would give up pick 3 for an 18 year old Mundy in a heartbeat. Our mosquito fleet midfield could use some size.

Why pick a guy that's just done his knee and will have question marks going fwd, when you've got the opportunity of selecting your gun full forward for the next 15 years in McCartin?

It just doesn't make sense.

Here is the sense: the club might think he will be a better player.

(Brain explosion)

It is easy to see why the real pressure is on the early selections.

Everyone expects them to be champions and if you don't take the blokes touted as the top picks you look foolish. If you do take them and they fail you are labelled a failure with your valuable high picks.

Far less pressure as you get into the draft after the first few picks.

Uuuuuummmm.... I think the word you were looking for is 'tentacles'......

The older crew will get it.

Lack of pace a concern??

His pace is not an issue. Even look at his highlights his agility is actually quite good.

Nathan Fyfe, Scott Pendlebury, David Mundy.

3 tall midfielders who are actually quite slow by foot. Does that effect them?

Lever in fact looks to be a lot quicker than those blokes.

You can add Jobe Watson to that, a brownlow medalist, who is tall and extremely slow.

It is easy to see why the real pressure is on the early selections.

Everyone expects them to be champions and if you don't take the blokes touted as the top picks you look foolish. If you do take them and they fail you are labelled a failure with your valuable high picks.

Far less pressure as you get into the draft after the first few picks.

Another reason the top clubs get it so easy!

Being 'quick of mind' is more important that being quick across the park.

Everyone here is throwing around some good examples here of that kind of player. I think Sam Mitchell is the best example. He is incredibly slow across the park but brilliant to watch.

No idea how people measure this other than watching a hell of lot of the specific player. Unfortunately watching a couple highlights here and there of a player we won't have much clue.

In saying that, my expert opinion from about 2 minutes of video footage is that I love the way Lever moves and takes the game on so I'd have him over McCartin. Also believe he has more strings to his bow than that of just a forward.

His dedication to the rehab and coaching during the last season was inspiring stuff. The fact he is a very handy boxer also I hope means he is a fair bit of sh!t in him that I like.

I'm backing him in for big things.

Use your brain, obviously he means it's slow compared to the average AFL player. He ran 3.19 for the 20m sprint as you know and you can't say that's fluff. Brayshaw isn't considered fast but he ran ~2.82. It's obvious from Lever's highlights that he's slow too. Good agility (before the reco at least) which makes up for it somewhat, but bloody slow.

Use my brain you say?

You're pushing an agenda to the point where you're now looking foolish.

You've pointed out that Brayshaw isn't considered fast, yet he recorded a 20 metre sprint time of 2.82 seconds. Guess who also ran those times?

Jack Watts and Nathan Freeman.

Are you aware that this test in isolation gives possibly the most ambiguous results out of any test at the combine? Anyone who looks at an isolated test like the 20 metre sprint and concludes that a player who runs what is considered an 'average' or 'below average' sprint time is too slow for AFL football has peanuts for brains.

The variables and skills that make you quick at AFL level are a lot more complex than the ability to run as fast as you can in a straight line for 20 metres. It's not a game of tag.

I think you might need to reconsider some of what you've been spinning and maybe use your own brain to realise how silly you're spunding along with the rest of the posters that are of the belief he's too slow to make it. (It even makes me cringe re-writing it).

Other posters have given several examples of players who would test average or below average for the 20 metre sprint.

Kennedy

Watson

Mitchell

Hodge

Mundy

Hayes

Etc

Those names alone make whoever is pushing this argument look like a dang fool.

We get that you don't want Lever at pick 3.

But you're looking very silly by continuing to push this point of him being 'too slow'.

Edited November 9, 201410 yr by stevethemanjordan

I think this needs to be challenged on a couple of counts.

He is at TAC level an exceptional footballer. In terms of talent I would not be surprised if he is rated by some recruiters as highly as Petracca.

The modern game does not require outstanding pace to play in the midfield. In fact many of the top midfielders in the game wouldn't necessarily be defined as quick. You do need a great work rate, a strong body, good game sense and the ability to work in traffic amongst other things.

Don't forget those qualities that took this bloke to an elite level in boxing. As mentioned earlier he also has an arm span of 204cm.

Agree. I was about to post a similar thing.

How fast exactly is our young budding superstar, Dom Tyson?

Lever's reading of the ball in flight is comparable to Fyfe, in my opinion.

Those who say he's too tall to play as a mid... He's shorter than Bontempelli by a couple of cm.

Edited November 10, 201410 yr by Machsy

Why pick a guy that's just done his knee and will have question marks going fwd, when you've got the opportunity of selecting your gun full forward for the next 15 years in McCartin?

It just doesn't make sense.

I'll tell you what doesn't make sense.

The fact you're so sure there are question marks next to Lever's name yet McCartin will be a '15 year 'gun' full forward.

Demonland @ it's absolute best.

Edited November 9, 201410 yr by stevethemanjordan

Use my brain you say?

You're pushing an agenda to the point where you're now looking foolish.

You've pointed out that Brayshaw isn't considered fast, yet he recorded a 20 metre sprint time of 2.82 seconds. Guess who also ran those times?

Jack Watts and Nathan Freeman.

Are you aware that this test in isolation gives possibly the most ambiguous results out of any test at the combine? Anyone who looks at an isolated test like the 20 metre sprint and concludes that a player who runs what is considered an 'average' or 'below average' sprint time is too slow for AFL football has peanuts for brains.

The variables and skills that make you quick at AFL level are a lot more complex than the ability to run as fast as you can in a straight line for 20 metres. It's not a game of tag.

I think you might need to reconsider some of what you've been spinning and maybe use your own brain to realise how silly you're spunding along with the rest of the posters that are of the belief he's too slow to make it. (It even makes me cringe re-writing it).

Other posters have given several examples of players who would test average or below average for the 20 metre sprint.

Kennedy

Watson

Mitchell

Hodge

Mundy

Hayes

Etc

Those names alone make whoever is pushing this argument look like a dang fool.

We get that you don't want Lever at pick 3.

But you're looking very silly by continuing to push this point of him being 'too slow'.

By your reasoning they may as well not have a draft combine at all. You're also saying AFL recruiters have peanuts for brains, since they obviously take the results into account (along with him being clearly slow on the field) when deciding to draft or not draft players. And don't compare him to slow midfielders. He's never played there in case you didn't realise. He's a key defender. But he might be able to you say? And he wants to try it? And he was amidfield coach? And he's great at rehab? And he's a great leader and speaks well? Where's the ignore button?

If he was a late pick, fine. But with his lack of pace and injury concerns he's too big a risk for pick 3 IMO.

Edited November 10, 201410 yr by TheoX

By your reasoning they may as well not have a draft combine at all. You're also saying AFL recruiters have peanuts for brains, since they obviously take the results into account (along with him being clearly slow on the field) when deciding to draft or not draft players. And don't compare him to slow midfielders. He's never played there in case you didn't realise. He's a key defender. But he might be able to you say? And he wants to try it? And he was amidfield coach? And he's great at rehab? And he's a great leader and speaks well? Where's the ignore button?

If he was a late pick, fine. But with his lack of pace and injury concerns he's too big a risk for pick 3 IMO.

How many games have you seen Lever or McCartin play? Are you personally aware of his prognosis?

I assume that you must have some expert opinion and inside knowledge to be able to form such outright opinions on a draftee.

Edited November 10, 201410 yr by jabberwocky

Being 'quick of mind' is more important that being quick across the park.

Everyone here is throwing around some good examples here of that kind of player. I think Sam Mitchell is the best example. He is incredibly slow across the park but brilliant to watch.

If he is as good as Mitchell, Jobe, Kennedy (list every slow player who's good) etc .

Sign up Lever.

But he has barely played any midfield time to justify that comparison.

I don't get how people can project that Lever will be a gun mid without him ever playing there.

Lever is was an outstanding KD junior.

Prob top 3 maybe 1 but how many highly rated 17yo's stock fall in their final year.

I doubt Lever would've but no one can be certain of that.

I don't get how people can project that Lever will be a gun mid without him ever playing there.

Can you quote these "people"?

Edited November 10, 201410 yr by jabberwocky

If he is as good as Mitchell, Jobe, Kennedy (list every slow player who's good) etc .

Sign up Lever.

But he has barely played any midfield time to justify that comparison.

I don't get how people can project that Lever will be a gun mid without him ever playing there.

Lever is was an outstanding KD junior.

Prob top 3 maybe 1 but how many highly rated 17yo's stock fall in their final year.

I doubt Lever would've but no one can be certain of that.

It's much the same as Rockliff, who was predominantly an undersized FF.

He was a footballer first and foremost.

By your reasoning they may as well not have a draft combine at all. You're also saying AFL recruiters have peanuts for brains, since they obviously take the results into account (along with him being clearly slow on the field) when deciding to draft or not draft players. And don't compare him to slow midfielders. He's never played there in case you didn't realise. He's a key defender. But he might be able to you say? And he wants to try it? And he was amidfield coach? And he's great at rehab? And he's a great leader and speaks well? Where's the ignore button?

If he was a late pick, fine. But with his lack of pace and injury concerns he's too big a risk for pick 3 IMO.

I said that results from that particular test in isolation are ambiguous. So yes, in that sense it's pointless.

Overall, I'd say that part of the reason the draft can be such a lottery is because of things like the combine testing. There's far too much emphasis put on these isolated tests. So much so that it is advantageous to those players who are perhaps more of an athlete than footballer and if they do well in the testing, their draft value will soar whilst those who don't have as many athletic gifts will drop away, (even if they're the better footballer). That's my view anyway.

It's only a recent thing that they've now introduced football specific skills like kicking etc.

As for the comparison of Lever's speed to that of some of the elite AFL midfielders, I think it's a very relevant rebuttal to what your main argument is. Regardless of position. They're the living proof that a 20 metre sprint test can be of little significance when determining one's overall footballing ability.

I have my own views on a players ability to play certain positions anyway. The fact that Lever hasn't played through the midfield means little to me. Petracca is an example of someone who has moved seamlessly from the forwardline to the midfield in one year and will now most likely go pick number 1 after such a dominant year. To play as an inside mid you need to have particular playing traits.

In my view Lever has those traits already programmed.

It's the physiological aspects of his game that will need to change, which come if you are willing to work extremely hard. (Something that both Lever and Petracca do). Lever is bound by nothing except his desire to become fit and strong enough to play through the midfield. Everything else is already ticked off in my view.

He has footy smarts

He is competitive beast with aggression

He is skilled

He wins contested ball in the air and on the ground

He tackles hard

Midfield strategy, running patterns, positional play are also secondary and are learnt intensively at AFL level so that's a non-issue for me too.

You only have to look at Fyfe for an example.

Edited November 10, 201410 yr by stevethemanjordan

How long to go....I'm going to be so happy when this draft is over.

...then again I suppose it will herald the beginning of we should have & why didn't we time.

If he is as good as Mitchell, Jobe, Kennedy (list every slow player who's good) etc .

Sign up Lever.

But he has barely played any midfield time to justify that comparison.

I don't get how people can project that Lever will be a gun mid without him ever playing there.

Lever is was an outstanding KD junior.

Prob top 3 maybe 1 but how many highly rated 17yo's stock fall in their final year.

I doubt Lever would've but no one can be certain of that.

I wasn't meaning to compare him to other mids jacey, just speaking about speed sometimes being a little bit overrated.

In my mind Lever has more to offer being a natural footballer than a couple of the others around him. Mind you, I haven't see him play once so I am only basing this off the highlights and reports on him as a player. I just like the way he is agressive at the pill in the air and then takes the game on with some run and spread. His speed on the video's looks fine to me.

I don't know if he will be a gun midfielder or not but I do believe he will be a very good player no matter where or for who he plays.

By your reasoning they may as well not have a draft combine at all. You're also saying AFL recruiters have peanuts for brains, since they obviously take the results into account (along with him being clearly slow on the field) when deciding to draft or not draft players.

The draft combine is a massive [censored] and in my opinion nearly a complete waste of time.

I was lucky enough to do the testing this year as apart of my work (work at NAB) and as much as it was a thrill getting out there I feel we place way to much emphasis on the stats it provides.

The couple days are more for a commercial purposes in my opinion, I don't think the data provided adds that much more value to who is selected where.

Surely the coaches / recruiters would have there minds made up after the TAC cup season and the U/18 championships of who they would be after.

If 'Player X' gets the pill 25 times a game but runs a 20m run 0.20secs slower than 'Player Y' who gets 12 touches I know who I'd go after. Also, on the 20m sprint, starting at the actual laser-line I ran a 3.18 I think and then the next I was a bit cheeky and started a foot back and got a 3.02 without being noticed. So the results can be skewed a little.

Anyways, It's all about footy smarts and I think the snake has got it.

The draft combine is a massive [censored] and in my opinion nearly a complete waste of time.

I was lucky enough to do the testing this year as apart of my work (work at NAB) and as much as it was a thrill getting out there I feel we place way to much emphasis on the stats it provides.

The couple days are more for a commercial purposes in my opinion, I don't think the data provided adds that much more value to who is selected where.

Surely the coaches / recruiters would have there minds made up after the TAC cup season and the U/18 championships of who they would be after.

If 'Player X' gets the pill 25 times a game but runs a 20m run 0.20secs slower than 'Player Y' who gets 12 touches I know who I'd go after. Also, on the 20m sprint, starting at the actual laser-line I ran a 3.18 I think and then the next I was a bit cheeky and started a foot back and got a 3.02 without being noticed. So the results can be skewed a little.

Anyways, It's all about footy smarts and I think the snake has got it.

A lot of the tests are to fill in time. The interviews are the most important thing. And from there they may as well get an accurate weight and height as well as doing a medical.

The skill and athleticism tests have little value.

Probably the endurance running is pretty important because you want to see which kids can handle the pressure, go out and produce a big mental and physical effort to make a good time.

Just saw a comment on Facebook that a guy works with Jake Levers cousin and he said that apparently Roosy has already been around to his house 5 times to have dinner with them.

You're usually the first person to rubbish Facebook rumours, Dazzle.