Let's cut to the chase... Who is gone!

[Jock Strap 197]

Our confidence is completely gone - makes the entire team look 3rd rate

[Jock Strap 197]

Our confidence is completely gone - makes the entire team look 3rd rate

[jackaub 1,402]

Forgot Grimes.

Yes he contriuted to the turnovers and the out of bounds on the full as per usual

[jackaub 1,402]

Bah ha ha ha Goldsack for Watts? Please go and see a Doctor Quick, Delusion is setting in!

Grimes is a liability in the team not just as Captain!! Skills???? he is the turnover king!

Picket I have been saying this for years only to be howled down by Saty and his band of apologists

[viney4pm 22]

OUT:

- Watts

- M. Jones

- Mckenzie

- Grimes

- Strauss

- Blease

- Nicholson

- Evans

- Tapscott

- Frawley (goneee)

Either through trade or delist, these guys HAVE to go and we need to start afresh ASAP with the core group of guys mentioned above, i.e. Jones, Tyson, Vince, Viney, Cross, Michie, Gawn, Dunn etc..

This club has to be ruthless to reap rewards of some sort in the future, or else we will continue to be, well - [censored].

[Samael 560]

Good start

Add Grimes, Dawes Barry Watts ......... Michie & Riley on the edge

Did you watch the game? Michie was in the better performers (very limited number to be sure) today in my opinion and was still going at the end. At one point in the last quarter he is sprinting after a GWS guy while Watts and another MFC player, much closer and on a better angle to intercept just barely raised a jog. Michie has played a total of 4 games spread over the past 21 games. How much of a judgement can be made of him or any of the players with under 20 games at the AFL level. Salem was virtually invisible today except for one courageous act in the game, Kent was wasteful but did score a goal yet neither of these guys are on your list. This is a problem on this forum. To ready to ditch everyone one week and then talk them up the next. Watch Tom McDonald's interview of DTV and tell me the players are not just as gutted as we are. The players don't know why today happened, the coach doesn't know either. McDonald at least took the blame and I think the coaches bear some ressponsibility as well.

[chook fowler 19,446]

Michie has shown enough. Not convinced about Riley - hard at it but a poor decision maker, will need another year to be sure.

Don't think Barry will make it.

Grimes won't be moved on but may well lose the captaincy to concentrate on his footy.

Dawes needs to lift big time - everyone bemoans the poor delivery to him but his lack of tackling effort today was abysmal. No excuse for that.

[dtrinh 71]

We all know the list of players who aren't getting games in the seniors who will most likely get delisted: Blease, tapscott, terlich, evans, strauss etc. What we should be more concerned about are players that are in the team at the moment who aren't up to standard. We really need to have a big look at ourselves and see who will improve and hopefully make it and those that just don't have the skills to do it.

Players this year who have disappointed and needs to improve:

- Grimes: a true professional and courage but just isn't improving his disposal

- Garland: was a great defender last year, helped chop off the ball and was able to use the ball coming out of defence. This year poor disposal isn't coming in third man up when needs to and making errors he wasn't last year

- Viney: tough one, hard as nails and goes into every contest 100% but would be sooo much more effective if he could hit targets. You see glimpses of it but just doesn't do it enough

- Watts: great skills, if it's anyone you want the ball in their hands it's Watts, just has great game sense and usually makes good decisions. Just doesn't go hard enough

- M. Jones: runs all day but just poor decision making

- Bail: applies forward line pressure but what's the point if he can't kick goals when he gets the chances or help set up goals after putting the pressure on and causing the turnover

- McDonald: really needs to put on some size, I don't understand- his position doesn't need someone that can win time trials at our club, what we really need is him to put on more size to play against the bigger men. He's great spoiling on the lead but one-on- one in a wrestling match can't match it with the big boys. Everyone knows he can't kick but still tries to do too much

- Dawes: he tries sooo hard every game, but I can see how he can get frustrated, the ball coming into him is terrible, what can we expect from him

- Jamar: good tap ruckman but doesn't give much around the ground. Really time to give Gawn the no.1 ruck spot and maybe play jamar as the 2nd ruckman in the forward line

I think this pre-season PR is really going to concentrate on 2 main things apart from teaching more of the game plan: endurance to allow players to run both ways and provide leads which we can actually make, 2. skills- really need to teach the team how to kick and handball again which is sad considering thats what they get paid to do.

[LuckyPhil 2]

I like your list Viney4pm but I reckon you missed a few.

What about:

Dawes who takes a mark about once every 3 weeks and never overhead.

Jamar who wins lots of ruck taps, most of which go to the opposition and who does nothing around the ground.

McDonald whose kicking is as bad as anyone in the team and his handball is about as good as his kicking.

Garland who is as slow as a wet week.

I was at the G today and the only player I could see who deserved his match payment was big Max Gawn who took a lot of good marks and would have taken a lot more if our own players hadn't kept spoiling him.

That was the worst performance I have seen for a long time (if not ever) and I have been a Demon supporter for a long, long time. That team played like they had never played a game of football in their lives. They can't mark, kick, tackle or handball and they make basic errors time after time. They were pathetic and someone should tell them if they think they are playing flat out - they are kidding themselves.

[zeldacat 53]

I also want to see a complete overhaul of our line coaches and in particular Dave Misson. He has been with us since the end of 2011 and our players are still the slowest and have no speed whatsoever. We cannot run out games. For three years we have not made any progress with the endurance of our players. Fitness puts less pressure on your skills and good skills put less pressure on your endurance- FFS hit a target. Time for a big change.

[bing181 9,194]

Good start

Add Grimes, Dawes Barry Watts ......... Michie & Riley on the edge

Of those 6 names, I would be really surprised if any were traded ....

- Michie wasn't disgraceful today

- Riley still a young player, yet to manage a full pre-season/season, and has earned at least another season

- Barry an even younger player, and has just been given a contract extension and see above

As for the others, regardless of what you think:

- Grimes isn't captain for nothing (even if we can't see it)

- Watts has done what he's been asked (as per Roos)

- Dawes is our only serious KPF, until Hogan comes back. With the likely departure of Frawley, Dawes is a must-keep.

[rjay 24,887]

Did you watch the game? Michie was in the better performers (very limited number to be sure) today in my opinion and was still going at the end. At one point in the last quarter he is sprinting after a GWS guy while Watts and another MFC player, much closer and on a better angle to intercept just barely raised a jog. Michie has played a total of 4 games spread over the past 21 games. How much of a judgement can be made of him or any of the players with under 20 games at the AFL level. Salem was virtually invisible today except for one courageous act in the game, Kent was wasteful but did score a goal yet neither of these guys are on your list. This is a problem on this forum. To ready to ditch everyone one week and then talk them up the next. Watch Tom McDonald's interview of DTV and tell me the players are not just as gutted as we are. The players don't know why today happened, the coach doesn't know either. McDonald at least took the blame and I think the coaches bear some ressponsibility as well.

I think Michie worked hard today and was one of our better players, he had to do some extra time in the middle in the last Q with Tyson virtually out of the game and it might be the making of him.

Kent is a bit of a dumb footballer and we just got rid of 2 of them and converted another one who still has occasional lapses (Jones). I'm not convinced by him yet but will reserve judgement.

Tommy Mc really needs to keep the game simple. He needs to look at Rance at Richmond who has been a terrible decision maker, when he keeps the game simple it works for him. Tommy must learn to do the same and play within his limitations.

[Ungarie boy 233]

Changes will come (and are needed), but so will progression.

Glass Half full:

Viney like Nathan Jones before him will step up, maturity and more importantly space around the contest (provided by teammates sheparding, bumping, blocking) and options outside; will see his disposal efficiency skyrocket.

Barry (when he does finally get possession) makes great decisions and back this up with his disposal - just doesn't get enough of it yet.

Gawn a strong marking very big ruck, if injury free, he'll make it - would love for him to shave the cuddly bear beard and tattoo the face or something to add some fear for the opponent

Dunn needs/must play defence - when he's not there if falls apart, and he doesn’t take enough marks in the forwards

Howe - his running game continues to improve and maybe he could play the wing role originally marked for Watts at the start of the year, it would be one hell of a match up in the air; and opposition coaches would be in constant fear he could float forward and take numerous marks

Obvious N Jones, Tyson, Jetta don't need mentioning

Glass half empty:

Watts - many hear praise him with ball in hand, but I now fear it; for though he has the skills he dosn't take the game on; to often it's a floating handball backwards; not a rapid pinpoint pass to a player that opens the game up

Frawley - Can play, if he wants to!!!

Cross - was shown up for speed, and there only one direction this issue will go

Dawes - Could just be a form slump brought on by being starved of opportunity by Melbourne’s woeful delivery (form requires consistency); but is not the #1 KPF player, plays more like a 3rd tall (great pressure, marks in space)

Jamar - Big hearted and knows how to ruck, unfortunately the game is going past him as opposition mobile ruckmen become an extra player through the midfield

Obvious Strauss, Blease, etc, don't need mentioning

[Demon3 2,541]

There is some upside in all this gloom and doom.. its not much, but there is some. Gawn, Hogam ect..

The irony of the trade Watts scenario is that the one bit of play that resembled a half decent side is when Watts took the corridor option, nailed a pass and then we were away. I know he is frustrating, but he must play of half back.

I wa sso angry yesterday i could cry, still angry today, but im not going to lose any more sleep about it.

[Satyriconhome 10,731]

Picket I have been saying this for years only to be howled down by Saty and his band of apologists

I have never apologised for Grimes, love you to find a post where I do, what I did say is that his 1% work compensates for the occasional horrific disposal (not as bad as most on here think it is), yesterday before he was injured he didn't miss a target, one of the very few who didn't, I prefer to analyse and make studied opinion, rather than the 5 or 6 topics we have today full of vitriol and abuse

[rjay 24,887]

I have never apologised for Grimes, love you to find a post where I do, what I did say is that his 1% work compensates for the occasional horrific disposal (not as bad as most on here think it is), yesterday before he was injured he didn't miss a target, one of the very few who didn't, I prefer to analyse and make studied opinion, rather than the 5 or 6 topics we have today full of vitriol and abuse

Here's one for you 'Sat', you've previously reported that Salem prefers to watch EPL than AFL. Maybe he needs to get back to work and work on his trade. At this stage of his career he needs to watch as much AFL as he can to learn the game. He has the skill set but needs to apply it.

[Waltham33 475]

I believe 70% of a teams performance comes down to the quality of its top 6 players. Everyone else is a role player. Which do we address?

[olisik 4,060]

Here's one for you 'Sat', you've previously reported that Salem prefers to watch EPL than AFL. Maybe he needs to get back to work and work on his trade. At this stage of his career he needs to watch as much AFL as he can to learn the game. He has the skill set but needs to apply it.

In his defence I wouldnt say there is much difference between the scoring abilities of the MFC and an EPL team at the moment.

Many EPL teams would regularily score more then 1 goal in 3 quarters

Edited August 18, 2014 by olisik

[praha 11,236]

I'll tell you who doesn't go: Nathan Jones

I care not for anyone else at this moment.

Why? He has trade value. Him being a good player in a bad team hasn't turned out well. The guy is a bonafide loser and an unwhelmingnleader. Getting 30 possies is easy when you're not damaging nor empowering for your teammates. He goes through the motions.

[praha 11,236]

I believe 70% of a teams performance comes down to the quality of its top 6 players. Everyone else is a role player. Which do we address?

Good point. It's the top 6. Your top players absolutely must walk into ANY top 8 side. Most of our top players would struggle to get into a bottom 4 side.

Role players are important but they need leaders and winners aroundthem.

[Jaded No More 68,867]

Why? He has trade value. Him being a good player in a bad team hasn't turned out well. The guy is a bonafide loser and an unwhelmingnleader. Getting 30 possies is easy when you're not damaging nor empowering for your teammates. He goes through the motions.

WOW.

I've seen some crazy sh*t written on here, but this takes the cake.

Yes, Jones is a bonafide loser and we should get rid of him.

Dear god!

[P-man 13,366]

Jones "goes through the motions"?

Okay, now I have definitely heard it all.

Jones is the reason I still give any semblance of a [censored].

[Coup Cooper 610]

Well my thouhts..

Who's gone?

Strauss - List clogger, cant even get a game in the poor midfield at casey.. Catchya

Tapscott- Unlucky with his body, but Bail has stolen his potential spot, doesn't have the tank or speed.

Blease- All reports is an arrogant nob, tries to much, not a team player, been here too long for too little!

Evans- Needed a break out year and had to show the performances he did against GWS in 2013.. Average at best.

Nicholson- Shocking skill, been here too long just a list clogger now!

Frawley- Surely this bloke is sick of playing for us by now, don't blame him if he leaves.

McKenzie- sorry pal, to be a tagger you need to be able to hurt the opposition back the other way these days, maybe go join the AIS and be a long distance runner because you aren't a footballers [censored].

Westrup- Know so little about this bloke I don't care I spelt his name wrong., maybe try an Irish recruit like the rest of the afl dees..

Clisby- last years form was a flash in the pan.

Mitch Clark- Please Comeback

Shannon Byrnes- Please never return. Take your super top up and go!

[P-man 13,366]

Well my thouhts..

Who's gone?

Strauss - List clogger, cant even get a game in the poor midfield at casey.. Catchya

Tapscott- Unlucky with his body, but Bail has stolen his potential spot, doesn't have the tank or speed.

Blease- All reports is an arrogant nob, tries to much, not a team player, been here too long for too little!

Evans- Needed a break out year and had to show the performances he did against GWS in 2013.. Average at best.

Nicholson- Shocking skill, been here too long just a list clogger now!

Frawley- Surely this bloke is sick of playing for us by now, don't blame him if he leaves.

McKenzie- sorry pal, to be a tagger you need to be able to hurt the opposition back the other way these days, maybe go join the AIS and be a long distance runner because you aren't a footballers [censored].

Westrup- Know so little about this bloke I don't care I spelt his name wrong., maybe try an Irish recruit like the rest of the afl dees..

Clisby- last years form was a flash in the pan.

Mitch Clark- Please Comeback

Shannon Byrnes- Please never return. Take your super top up and go!

This is the problem though. Only one of those players was on the field yesterday, and he's a free agent who will be leaving anyway.

I really think Roos needs to be brutal in who he decides to let go. There are some players who need to be traded now while they have value. None of those listed above fall into that category, bar Blease and maybe Tapscott.

Edited August 18, 2014 by P-man

[rpfc 28,263]

Frankly, Salem shouldn't be playing. But our list being as poor as it is, Roos is playing him for probably a few reasons. But one reason I can imagine that is at the forefront of his mind is that Salem has a future at the club, whereas there are a plethora of players who don't have a future.

I don't want to see kids thrown out there before they are ready, but if no-one is earning the games before them - that is what we will get.

We simply need to get some solid pros into the club.

Cross and Vince were a good start and the cost was only Sylvia, and two list spots, effectively.