Post Match Discussion - Round 15

[Demonland 72,155]

GLUTIUS MAXIMUS BEATS CLASS EVERY TIME by George on the Outer

It's an old saying about how ar.. beats class, and the final goal from Marcus Bontempelli to win the game for the Bulldogs was surely just that?

Or was it?

Sadly, while the shot may be a great contender for the Goal of the Year, there simply wasn't too much class to beat in the form of the Melbourne Demons.

All around the ground there are players who are simply fillers, who wouldn't get a role at any other club. But there is little else to choose from, having witnessed a simply miserable effort at Casey yesterday.

It is a real credit to Paul Roos that Melbourne is competitive. It is equally incredible that the side can be 37 points down and can manage to come back and actually take the lead by the final change and again in the final term.

But there isn't any class in the form of a player or two who simply takes the game by the throat and wills the rest of the side across the line. Melbourne certainly had some seriously gutsy and committed efforts from the likes of Mark Jamar, Nathan Jones and Bernie Vince.

A truly sharp contrast for their output and efforts to the insipid running shown by ... yes, the usual culprits. And sadly, they will get another go next week because there is no-one to replace them.

The results will only change when those players can't get a run, because you simply lose out in those critical one-on-one contests when the game is in the balance.

Mark Jamar dominated the ruck contests, and the Demons definitely had a real chance in the last quarter as Minson was tiring heavily, having had to shoulder most of the ruck responsibilities for the Dogs all afternoon. Max Gawn gave good back-up and showed he actually has a strong pair of hands and can mark and kick (unlike Jake Spencer).

However, the Bulldogs had too much class in the mids and kept getting the contested ball out into space. And they were prepared to run, especially in the first half. Despite the fact that Melbourne the first goal of the match, the Western Bulldogs took control and scored seven unanswered goals to lead by 37 points at one stage.

Cue the great comeback ... a lot of hard work and the game was evenly poised at 3/4 time.

With it all on the line, the Demons simply fluffed it because there was no real class ... and not enough real talent.

Neville Jetta put in a simply superb running lunge to spoil, then followed up and goaled after Minson mouthed off at the umpire. It was all there for the taking, but there were some passengers sitting back, enjoying the view.

And they watched as Bontempelli curled an impossible kick from the pocket.

Game over!

Finally, can we have some sensible discussion as the season starts to near its end about where this great game of ours is going?

Michael Malthouse voiced his opinion during the week saying that if he wasn't coaching, he wouldn't watch the game Carlton coach Mick Malthouse says he wouldn't watch footy if not coaching, Marc Murphy faces injury test before Collingwood game

The umpiring or rather the lack of it has turned the game into a continuous rolling maul. Take a look at today's ruck hit out stats - Minson (WB) 34 Jamar (M) 43 Gawn (M) 23 with a couple of extras to Roberts (WB) and Pedersen (M). There were only 27 goals scored and yet we have over 100 hit outs! It's boring to watch!

Call the free kicks when they happen, throw the ball up straight away, stop sheep herding hoping that the ball will come out and you don't have to make a decision. Decisions are what you are paid for.

Make the game flow ... please!

Melbourne 1.3.9 3.4.22 10.5.65 13.7.85

Western Bulldogs 4.1.25 7.4.46 10.4.64 14.7 .91

Goals

Melbourne Jamar 3 Dawes Grimes 2 Gawn Jetta Pedersen Vince Viney Watts

Western Bulldogs Stringer 4 Bontempelli Crameri 2 Boyd Dahlhaus Higgins Honeychurch Hunter Minson

Best

Melbourne Howe Jamar Watts Grimes Frawley Vince

Western Bulldogs Boyd Stringer Bontempelli Murphy Wallis Stevens

Changes

Melbourne

Nil

Western Bulldogs Tutt replaced in selected side by Roberts

Injuries

Melbourne Terlich (shoulder)

Western Bulldogs Nil

Reports

Melbourne Nil

Western Bulldogs Nil

Umpires Chamberlain, Harris, Mollison

Crowd 24,953 at Etihad Stadium

[Webber 10,465]

Rubbish. You're allowed to rush it through deliberately if you're under pressure, which he clearly was.

This is the rule, and it has been pretty consistently applied since it came in. Yesterday's was an almighty howler, and ended up having an effect on the result of the game. It's that simple. The AFL know it, the clubs, the media and the public know it. Carlton lost a game against Geelong recently due to umpiring, and the discussion was short lived and glib. The football world needs to bring the state of umpiring to the forefront of discussions. From the holding the ball interpretation, to head high/ducking confusion, to DRS, it is a woeful mess, and sullies our game.

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

I found our performance against the bulldogs similar to the Essendon game. Smashed early, then made an unlikely comeback from a near impossible position. Something we had not done in recent memory. This time we lacked a little class and luck to finish off the job. It is a fantastic sign that we are now capable of keeping ourselves in a game when things are against us. My biggest issue is still our poor clearance work. Forget about the umpires and skill errors, we dominated when we had a purple patch of winning clearances in both games. And got trashed when we lost long sequences of them. If we could just break even on clearances we would have won easily. Biggest offenders are Jones and Viney as always who can get the ball but choose to try to bulldoze their way out of congestion rather than looking for the next option. Sometimes just a tap or knock on can be the better option if they can't break free. These bad habits have to be eradicated.

Edited June 29, 2014 by america de cali

[Satyriconhome 10,857]

Gotta love a loss, 14 pages of hand wringing, again, listen to Roos's presser, sums everything up perfectly, not sure what some posters expected, finals?...maybe the coach is 'just a naughtly boy'......I expected about 5 wins this year, and then a harsh reassessment at season's end by the Footy Dept

[mdemonski2 403]

Out: turnover merchants bail, nicho and terlich.

In: casey performers tappy, jkh and blease.

[mrtwister 652]

Thanks, mrtwister. That's surprising, although I remember their tackling being absolutely ferocious in Round 8. They would have out tackled us that day, would they not? And I meant MFC games, not necessarily the whole comp. But that is an interesting stat.

Apologies AF. Misinterpreted your post. Just for curiosities sake, doggies had 108 of those tackles in R8, a club record.

Our highest ever is 106. Against Geelong last year.

[Ethan Tremblay 30,856]

Gotta love a loss, 14 pages of hand wringing, again, listen to Roos's presser, sums everything up perfectly, not sure what some posters expected, finals?...maybe the coach is 'just a naughtly boy'......I expected about 5 wins this year, and then a harsh reassessment at season's end by the Footy Dept

All hail Saty...! You are the man.

Sorry but with an effort like that, regardless of the bulldogs fade and out come back, we deserve to be angry. We can gone backwards and our skills and decision making seem to be going down hill.

[beelzebub 23,347]

Thing is Saty...if you couldnt win yesterday there are no more wins for the season ikely. As PR would have it ( and I thoroughly concur ) It is what it is

But for the start we might have won the game. Obviously Roos's signalling some hefty changes and as you rightly put it , harsh assessments.

I think this season's purpose is purely educational, but mainly for the FD , to see the list first hand and to strip it bare for some major grafting going into the next pre season.

Those who didnt come to play ( from the get go ) will get another mark on their cards.

I wonder how many will get churned. Going to be interesting

[jnrmac 20,058]

Did I make any reference to it being a specific rule?

I was referring to the act itself...and it appeared to be overlooked a number of times for both teams..especially in the second half.

Err yes you did actually

"Dropping the ball seems to be now a thing of the past...there were plenty today, especially in the second half that were overlooked."

[mrtwister 652]

Thing is Saty...if you couldnt win yesterday there are no more wins for the season ikely. As PR would have it ( and I thoroughly concur ) It is what it is

But for the start we might have won the game. Obviously Roos's signalling some hefty changes and as you rightly put it , harsh assessments.

I think this season's purpose is purely educational, but mainly for the FD , to see the list first hand and to strip it bare for some major grafting going into the next pre season.

Those who didnt come to play ( from the get go ) will get another mark on their cards.

I wonder how many will get churned. Going to be interesting

Might be time for somebody to start a 'How many will we delist?' poll. Might do it myself if I get time later.

[Satyriconhome 10,857]

All hail Saty...! You are the man.

Sorry but with an effort like that, regardless of the bulldogs fade and out come back, we deserve to be angry. We can gone backwards and our skills and decision making seem to be going down hill.

Anger only produces stupid comments in posts, Roos was angry but he made sure his comments were measured, when we decide to play our decision making and skills are excellent, frustrated me, rather than angry

[nutbean 8,838]

Anger only produces stupid comments in posts,

This should be on the banner of Demonland.

[jazza 1,323]

Gotta love a loss, 14 pages of hand wringing, again, listen to Roos's presser, sums everything up perfectly, not sure what some posters expected, finals?...maybe the coach is 'just a naughtly boy'......I expected about 5 wins this year, and then a harsh reassessment at season's end by the Footy Dept

Yep,i expected this type of season and i expect the knife to be used freely at years end.

Supporters can have favourite players and all that stuff,But with PR,hes gonna cut some throats when the time comes,it natural to winning clubs.

[dazzledavey36 54,861]

If Roos can't turn us around then no one can IMO.

This is one of my biggest concerns.

I have absolute faith in him that he will no doubt turn this club around.

Its already working.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

There's no way in hell that was the correct call on Bail. That is not what the rule was brought in for. If you are under pressure of any sort the benefit of the doubt rests with you and you are allowed to concede the behind. The rule is there primarily to stop players kicking in from wasting time, kicking to themselves, and then going backwards, or from players who have time and space but no real intention of going anywhere other than over the line. When there's a player almost literally tackling you as you get rid of it, hounding you over the line, you are allowed to concede.

Do you believe we should be picking 18 years olds to have an impact in 1-2 years?

If so, you don't understand recruiting.

If not, then why are you complaining?

The fact that Toumpas started off a lesser AFL player than Wines or Macrae or Stringer, or that he hasn't developed as fast as them, does not mean the decision was wrong (yet, anyway). This is the 36th possible game any of them could have played. If you're willing to draw the line in a 19-year old after 36 possible games, then you don't understand, or in Toumpas' specific case don't want to understand, the realities of life.

None of this is to say that picking Toumpas was definitely the right call either. We don't know right now. But we aren't supposed to know after 1-2 years. That's not what drafting is for.

What I'm saying is, you have a choice of picking a ready made player like Wines who has the body to contribute immediately or you pick a player who you believe will be a very good player but needs time. At this point in time the choice of Wines has been vindicated by his outstanding performance on the field whereas the performances of Toumpass haven't shown he will be anywhere the player we hoped he would be.

You can usually tell after a season or so if a player has the goods, look at Macrae, Stringer and Bontempelli, they were all in Footscray's best yesterday and were picked last year and this year, but Toumpass can't get a game with a side that is near the bottom of the ladder and has shown nothing to indicate that he will make it in AFL.

I'm hopeful that he will turn out to be a very good player, but at this time I just don't see in him what the recruiters did. I just get p1ssed off when we make excuses as to why he needs time when other players don't seem to and we do it all the time. Big guys need time, young kids need time, it's always the same excuse on Demonland, just look around and see the type of football other draftees are playing.

Anyway I don't want to go on about this, I've said what I want to say and given my opinion others can make up their own minds.

[chookrat 4,247]

A real positive from this season has been our resilience to keep pushing and it has kept us in games. This will put us in good stead as our team imoroves, individuals develop their games and we bring in some class thriugh trades/drafts. We are doing as well as many of us could have hoped.

[Demon Stalwart 255]

How easily we forget !!

This time last year if we where 30 + points down at half time it would end up being a 90 point thrashing !!!

Now we are at least competitive and that is with a Team that is still mediocre at best .

Except for some of our younger players and few imports and a couple who have decided to stand up and be counted .

So what has changed for Melbourne to cause this turnaround ???

The answer is simple " PAUL ROOS ",

If only we had half a dozen like him on the ground we would be world beaters .

I said last week we will win some we will lose some .

We are in a construction phase and we have the best on site manager we could hope for !

Lets wait till they finish the building and hopefully we will have a world class result .

[old dee 23,787]

What I'm saying is, you have a choice of picking a ready made player like Wines who has the body to contribute immediately or you pick a player who you believe will be a very good player but needs time. At this point in time the choice of Wines has been vindicated by his outstanding performance on the field whereas the performances of Toumpass haven't shown he will be anywhere the player we hoped he would be.

You can usually tell after a season or so if a player has the goods, look at Macrae, Stringer and Bontempelli, they were all in Footscray's best yesterday and were picked last year and this year, but Toumpass can't get a game with a side that is near the bottom of the ladder and has shown nothing to indicate that he will make it in AFL.

I'm hopeful that he will turn out to be a very good player, but at this time I just don't see in him what the recruiters did. I just get p1ssed off when we make excuses as to why he needs time when other players don't seem to and we do it all the time. Big guys need time, young kids need time, it's always the same excuse on Demonland, just look around and see the type of football other draftees are playing.

Anyway I don't want to go on about this, I've said what I want to say and given my opinion others can make up their own minds.

Never a truer word said Robbie numerous people decried your early comments on Cook and we know how that turned out.

He is getting to the point of having difficulty hearing the band.

However he is contracted for 2015 so next year will be make or break IMO.

Edited June 30, 2014 by old dee

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

I don't know where to begin - so disappointed. We didn't deserve to win.

Neither did the Bulldogs.

[old dee 23,787]

After the last month I am of the opinion that Paul Roos and the new FD are getting the best that this list has to produce.

The problem is that for a large number of them their best is marginal AFL ability.

We are still two to three draft periods away from having a list that is capable of pushing into the top eight.

We just have too many VFL level talents.

Poor skills cost us the last two games the errors were committed by the regular offenders. They have to be replaced.

[Satyriconhome 10,857]

What I'm saying is, you have a choice of picking a ready made player like Wines who has the body to contribute immediately or you pick a player who you believe will be a very good player but needs time. At this point in time the choice of Wines has been vindicated by his outstanding performance on the field whereas the performances of Toumpass haven't shown he will be anywhere the player we hoped he would be.

You can usually tell after a season or so if a player has the goods, look at Macrae, Stringer and Bontempelli, they were all in Footscray's best yesterday and were picked last year and this year, but Toumpass can't get a game with a side that is near the bottom of the ladder and has shown nothing to indicate that he will make it in AFL.

I'm hopeful that he will turn out to be a very good player, but at this time I just don't see in him what the recruiters did. I just get p1ssed off when we make excuses as to why he needs time when other players don't seem to and we do it all the time. Big guys need time, young kids need time, it's always the same excuse on Demonland, just look around and see the type of football other draftees are playing.

Anyway I don't want to go on about this, I've said what I want to say and given my opinion others can make up their own minds.

A couple of weeks ago an 18 yr old drafted this year was being hailed as a champion because he coolly slotted a winning goal...the name escapes me just at the moment, just for the record by the way, some media had Macrae being well held by Nicholson....notice you have decided to leave out Liberatore why?

[beelzebub 23,347]

I have absolute faith in him that he will no doubt turn this club around.

Its already working.

strangely...I share that faith.

I'm impressed that hes a down to earth realist. I expected no smoke nor mirrors. Im not sure what I expected in respect to him buying in but I saw a very disappointed Demon front that presser and hes not happy. I dare say he's as much one of us as he can be.

I think he's gobsmacked as to how large a portion of our list is just not up to it ( AFL ) Some he knows feels) he can persevere with and the realisation that quite a few are just not going to be the ones going forward I think is making him more resolute to indeed find a way.

He makes no excuses. Im a little taken back by his self efacing humility. He has a strong ego this man but not ruled by it.

Meantime it's of little comfort to watch some of the tripe offered up. But yes, we just about snatched it . We were foolish to give any team nearly a half's start.

We really dont have enough of the right cattle. This will change.

Paul Roos and Co are about to write the sequel......Moneyball 11 Demon resurrection.

[old dee 23,787]

strangely...I share that faith.

I'm impressed that hes a down to earth realist. I expected no smoke nor mirrors. Im not sure what I expected in respect to him buying in but I saw a very disappointed Demon front that presser and hes not happy. I dare say he's as much one of us as he can be.

I think he's gobsmacked as to how large a portion of our list is just not up to it ( AFL ) Some he knows feels) he can persevere with and the realisation that quite a few are just not going to be the ones going forward I think is making him more resolute to indeed find a way.

He makes no excuses. Im a little taken back by his self efacing humility. He has a strong ego this man but not ruled by it.

Meantime it's of little comfort to watch some of the tripe offered up. But yes, we just about snatched it . We were foolish to give any team nearly a half's start.

We really dont have enough of the right cattle. This will change.

Paul Roos and Co are about to write the sequel......Moneyball 11 Demon resurrection.

That pretty much says it all bb

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I'd argue Vince has really stepped up over the last two to three weeks, RF.

And the bolded bit is interesting. Some Demonlanders seem to be happy to do this with Frawley.

Bernie is close to my favourite player at the club but we only got him because Adelaide wanted to get back in to the draft.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

strangely...I share that faith.

I'm impressed that hes a down to earth realist. I expected no smoke nor mirrors. Im not sure what I expected in respect to him buying in but I saw a very disappointed Demon front that presser and hes not happy. I dare say he's as much one of us as he can be.

I think he's gobsmacked as to how large a portion of our list is just not up to it ( AFL ) Some he knows feels) he can persevere with and the realisation that quite a few are just not going to be the ones going forward I think is making him more resolute to indeed find a way.

He makes no excuses. Im a little taken back by his self efacing humility. He has a strong ego this man but not ruled by it.

Meantime it's of little comfort to watch some of the tripe offered up. But yes, we just about snatched it . We were foolish to give any team nearly a half's start.

We really dont have enough of the right cattle. This will change.

Paul Roos and Co are about to write the sequel......Moneyball 11 Demon resurrection.

You don't think Neeld saw this? Bailey? (RIP)

Roos has the respect and free rein to fix this....I just wish he'd sign on for 3 more years.

Edited June 30, 2014 by jumbo returns