A very big loss for the club but at least we got great compo.

I'd go as far to say he is no loss whatsoever.

If we were at a stage where we were vying for a top 4 spot and a legitimate flag chance next year then I agree he'd be a loss of some sort.

But we're not.

We're a bottom dwelling team on the up who has landed Christian Petracca for Frawley and weve been able to trade in a replacement for Frawley in the same draft/trade period in Frost.

Give it two to three years and you'll be laughing at our fortunes.

I'd go as far to say he is no loss whatsoever.

If we were at a stage where we were vying for a top 4 spot and a legitimate flag chance next year then I agree he'd be a loss of some sort.

But we're not.

We're a bottom dwelling team on the up who has landed Christian Petracca for Frawley and weve been able to trade in a replacement for Frawley in the same draft/trade period in Frost.

Give it two to three years and you'll be laughing at our fortunes.

I see what you're saying but I feel that any club that loses their best defender is going to feel the pain.

I see what you're saying but I feel that any club that loses their best defender is going to feel the pain.

How can he be 'our best defender' when he was the first one to make way when we didn't have a forward to kick to?

McDonald and Dunn are different players but I would rate them better. I also rate Garland when he is 'in sorts'...

I see what you're saying but I feel that any club that loses their best defender is going to feel the pain.

One all AA year. I think supporters hold on to that and perhaps forget what his form has been like since then.

Here's a bit of perspective. Nathan Jones has never been an AA but have a look his gradual improvement since he was drafted and what he is now achieving and producing onfield and off-field.

Frawley's form was all over the shop and in my eyes, he never displayed strong leadership on or off-field. I've always thought he was expendable.

Strong defence is built as a side. And a strong side is built up of strong personalities as well as talent.

As RPFC has said, on recent form he wasn't our best defender (part of the reason he played forward this year).

I honestly don't think he's any sort of loss. We've gained in many ways with his departure and we'll start to see that in the not too distant future.

One all AA year. I think supporters hold on to that and perhaps forget what his form has been like since then.

Here's a bit of perspective. Nathan Jones has never been an AA but have a look his gradual improvement since he was drafted and what he is now achieving and producing onfield and off-field.

Frawley's form was all over the shop and in my eyes, he never displayed strong leadership on or off-field. I've always thought he was expendable.

Strong defence is built as a side. And a strong side is built up of strong personalities as well as talent.

As RPFC has said, on recent form he wasn't our best defender (part of the reason he played forward this year).

I honestly don't think he's any sort of loss. We've gained in many ways with his departure and we'll start to see that in the not too distant future.

Best post you have ever written,.

Yeah nah, Frawley was still our best defender.

In 2013 he conceded 25 goals in 17 games, with his direct opponent kicking more than two goals twice. Since 2009 he has conceded 1.7 goals in the reverse Coleman which stacks up against all the elite fullbacks of the past decade.

One on one T Mac was gaining on him but if I was to trust anyone to nullify a key forward it would be clearly have been Frawley with his strength and speed over 20m.

He was moved forward because he was deemed to have the capability to do so, which early on was proven correct. I wouldn't have thought it had anything to do with his merits as a defender.

His headspace affected his game in the end but it doesn't alter him being our best defender.

How big a loss he will be remains to be seen, but I'm hopeful of Frost coming on quickly and T Mac continuing his improvement to make the loss somewhat negligible.

And in the overall equation with Brayshaw being the gain, I'm happy with the overall outcome.

Yeah nah, Frawley was still our best defender.

In 2013 he conceded 25 goals in 17 games, with his direct opponent kicking more than two goals twice. Since 2009 he has conceded 1.7 goals in the reverse Coleman which stacks up against all the elite fullbacks of the past decade.

One on one T Mac was gaining on him but if I was to trust anyone to nullify a key forward it would be clearly have been Frawley with his strength and speed over 20m.

He was moved forward because he was deemed to have the capability to do so, which early on was proven correct. I wouldn't have thought it had anything to do with his merits as a defender.

His headspace affected his game in the end but it doesn't alter him being our best defender.

How big a loss he will be remains to be seen, but I'm hopeful of Frost coming on quickly and T Mac continuing his improvement to make the loss somewhat negligible.

And in the overall equation with Brayshaw being the gain, I'm happy with the overall outcome.

Misleading stats again P-man.

Whilst Frawley's strength is his one-on-one defending, I think you'll find that most defenders who's strength is one-on-one defending would have recorded similar stats during 2013 based upon the fact that we were so heavily scored against and through so many avenues.

Again, stats like that don't tell the full story.

And I disagree that he was our best defender this year.

Misleading stats again P-man.

Whilst Frawley's strength is his one-on-one defending, I think you'll find that most defenders who's strength is one-on-one defending would have recorded similar stats during 2013 based upon the fact that we were so heavily scored against and through so many avenues.

Again, stats like that don't tell the full story.

And I disagree that he was our best defender this year.

Fair enough. Agree to disagree. I'd be a lot less inclined to underrate him.

He'll be a loss imo. Less so on his 2014 output (unless you count his impact as a forward which should be more than compensated for by the new look forwardline).

Fair enough. Agree to disagree. I'd be a lot less inclined to underrate him.

He'll be a loss imo. Less so on his 2014 output (unless you count his impact as a forward which should be more than compensated for by the new look forwardline).

I'm with you on this one P-Man. He'll be a loss, if for no other reason than he was a hardened 100 plus gamer and his direct replacement is no guarantee of getting to that stage.

But whilst he'll be a loss it won't be a huge one. I reckon he is overrated and as STHM says didn't really show on field leadership. Also all good defenses operate as a unit and if the new unit gels then we will be in front if as expected Brayshaw becomes a player. IMO the reason he was kept forward after Dawes came back was Roos wanted the defence to gell/form a unit without him in full knowledge he was gone

Jones bleeds red and Blue

Frawley now bleeds poo poo colours

Jones bleeds red and Blue

Frawley now bleeds poo poo colours

Thought I was back on the "cliches which should be banned thread" for a moment.

Sorry, P-man, it is my experience that when the fwd line 'needs a body' - the best backman is rarely stolen for the duty...

And the fact remains, the backline performed excellently without him.

Still dealing with 52 Inside 50s a game (down from about 58), they managed to concede about 6 goals less in 2014 than 2013.

Sorry, P-man, it is my experience that when the fwd line 'needs a body' - the best backman is rarely stolen for the duty...

And the fact remains, the backline performed excellently without him.

Still dealing with 52 Inside 50s a game (down from about 58), they managed to concede about 6 goals less in 2014 than 2013.

With all due respect rpfc, does your experience extend to the AFL?

I can't accept a theory that Frawley was moved forward cause he was more expendable.

Theories I'm more willing to accept are that he was the best of an ordinary bunch, or that the writing was on the wall in terms of his departure so may as well get used to not having him down back and simultaneously plug a hole in the forward line.

With all due respect rpfc, does your experience extend to the AFL?

I can't accept a theory that Frawley was moved forward cause he was more expendable.

Theories I'm more willing to accept are that he was the best of an ordinary bunch, or that the writing was on the wall in terms of his departure so may as well get used to not having him down back and simultaneously plug a hole in the forward line.

Dunn would do a better job. He even used to play forward.

And AFL experience is required now?

Better close the site now, Andy...

Been a good run.

Dunn would do a better job. He even used to play forward.

And AFL experience is required now?

Better close the site now, Andy...

Been a good run.

Of course it isn't required. But when you make reference to your experience in supporting your argument, I'm just not sure that everything you've experienced in local footy would correlate to the AFL.

Dunn did swing forward at times also but he's never really starred, and after being moved around his entire career I'm sure he appreciated being able to settle himself into the backline for the majority, where he will now stay.

Besides which, are you suggesting that Dunn has become a better defender than Chip Frawley in the space of two seasons? I mean he's done very well but I would disagree if that's your contention. Dunn wouldn't command 600k a season at a reigning premiership side.

I'm not going to rewrite history to make Frawley a dud now that he's gone. Sorry.

As long as there are no D'land tantrums when Frawley tears it up for Hawks in 2015 and shows how good he is!

As long as there are no D'land tantrums when Frawley tears it up for Hawks in 2015 and shows how good he is!

if that happens he should be ashamed of his efforts in 2014

Frawley will be a much better player next year!

I'll give you some reasons why

Hodge

Roughead

Lewis

Gibson

Mitchell

Burgoyne

lake

Breust

Rioli

I could go on.

With all due respect rpfc, does your experience extend to the AFL?

I can't accept a theory that Frawley was moved forward cause he was more expendable.

Theories I'm more willing to accept are that he was the best of an ordinary bunch, or that the writing was on the wall in terms of his departure so may as well get used to not having him down back and simultaneously plug a hole in the forward line.

I'm going with this one 'P-man'.

Also with you on Frawley not being a dud. He is a very good footballer and will be a loss. Whether him moving on is a plus or minus long term is yet to be seen.

As long as there are no D'land tantrums when Frawley tears it up for Hawks in 2015 and shows how good he is!

Frawley will be servicable for the Hawks. But IMO James Frawley isn't worth a player the quality of pick 3 - or what I perceive that value to be.

I think MFC will get a lot more out of Brayshaw. Just a case where the cards fallen our way - although we've had A LOT of those cases. We've been very lucky.

Of course it isn't required. But when you make reference to your experience in supporting your argument, I'm just not sure that everything you've experienced in local footy would correlate to the AFL.

Dunn did swing forward at times also but he's never really starred, and after being moved around his entire career I'm sure he appreciated being able to settle himself into the backline for the majority, where he will now stay.

Besides which, are you suggesting that Dunn has become a better defender than Chip Frawley in the space of two seasons? I mean he's done very well but I would disagree if that's your contention. Dunn wouldn't command 600k a season at a reigning premiership side.

I'm not going to rewrite history to make Frawley a dud now that he's gone. Sorry.

I'm going with this one 'P-man'.

Also with you on Frawley not being a dud. He is a very good footballer and will be a loss. Whether him moving on is a plus or minus long term is yet to be seen.

Glad we're all on the same page....

(Who said he was a dud out of interest?)

This place is ridiculous.

Glad we're all on the same page....

(Who said he was a dud out of interest?)

This place is ridiculous.

It is isn't it 'steve'!

Frawley will have one job at Hawthorn next year. He will be expected to beat a gorilla one on one, something he is very good at. He won't be relied upon to win his own footy, create run and hit targets further a field. He will have so much quality around him that will be able to provide that.

I hate to say it but I think he will be successful at Hawthorn in 2015.

Frawley will have one job at Hawthorn next year. He will be expected to beat a gorilla one on one, something he is very good at. He won't be relied upon to win his own footy, create run and hit targets further a field. He will have so much quality around him that will be able to provide that.

I hate to say it but I think he will be successful at Hawthorn in 2015.

Quite right! He will face up to Hawkins, Buddy, Hogan, Patton, Boyd, Daniher, McCartin, Walker, Kennedy etc. Not all 'gorillas' just yet but will be in next year or two.

There are a lot more 'gorilla' types now so Chip will be very busy battling it out against those guys week in week out. They will be good battles to watch but I reckon he will get towled quite a few times. Especially looking forward to Hogan vs Frawley!!

When Chip walked out the door the collective IQ at the club was rocked in a way that reminded me of the devastating Earthquake that hit Melbourne and surrounds last year.