GOODBYE MR. CHIP FRAWLEY

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

It's all ultimately a question of priorities.

That Frawley is entitled to wait until the end of the season to attract and assess the best offer is absolutely beyond debate. Of course he is.

That it is apparently controversial to suggest that such an approach from a senior leader of the club is not necessarily beneficial to this club in its current circumstances is ridiculous in the extreme.

Now, I get that you think every player is entitled:

- to seek for himself the best possible contract; and

- to seek for himself the ultimate finals glory with another club.

I don't think anyone would seriously argue with that. But they're not especially endearing priorities to a club supporter - they're all about the player first.

For me at least, I'm not going to get sweaty in the pants over a player who is either mindlessly following his manager's instructions to the letter or who is simply motivated by his own perceived best interests. If Frawley were to sign a contract a while back, like Lyndon Dunn, it'd have been massive for this club. That he's elected not to until he's assessed all other options at the end of the year doesn't particularly endear him to me. True clubmen don't do this - after all, he's not going to be hugely out of the $$$ with us - any offer we make will most likely be in the range. But he has to love the club, and the concept of being a one club player, to be in that headspace.

After all, there's a reason clubs like the Swans and the Cats have stayed so dominant for so long. Look at their leaders and then assess the behaviours of those players. No bounty hunters in that lot. Cop a tip - Tom Scully wasn't the first choice marquee signing for the GWS. $$$ alone didn't work for many players - it did for Tom.

And it's the very reason as to why Robbie Flower is iconic at this club.

So yep, in short, Chip is absolutely entitled to wait until the end of the season to make his decision.

Does that approach make him a really good and effective senior leader at the club though? I think not.

And, for me at least, he's unfortunately become just another player.

Thank heavens for you Ron.

[Red and Bluebeard 2,049]

He signed for the less but knew with a full preseason behind him he could be a star and his worth would rise. ( oh nutbean you make me laugh)

As one of my teachers used to say, there are places for people who laugh at their own jokes ...

[Undeeterred 2,908]

Best post here in a gooood long while, Ron Burgundy.

[beelzebub 22,703]

though a lot of people here think that chip is not waiting until the end of the season to make his decision, but just to announce a decision he already made some time ago.

boom...tishhhhh !!!!

[nutbean 8,837]

It's all ultimately a question of priorities.

That Frawley is entitled to wait until the end of the season to attract and assess the best offer is absolutely beyond debate. Of course he is.

That it is apparently controversial to suggest that such an approach from a senior leader of the club is not necessarily beneficial to this club in its current circumstances is ridiculous in the extreme.

Now, I get that you think every player is entitled:

- to seek for himself the best possible contract; and

- to seek for himself the ultimate finals glory with another club.

I don't think anyone would seriously argue with that. But they're not especially endearing priorities to a club supporter - they're all about the player first.

For me at least, I'm not going to get sweaty in the pants over a player who is either mindlessly following his manager's instructions to the letter or who is simply motivated by his own perceived best interests. If Frawley were to sign a contract a while back, like Lyndon Dunn, it'd have been massive for this club. That he's elected not to until he's assessed all other options at the end of the year doesn't particularly endear him to me. True clubmen don't do this - after all, he's not going to be hugely out of the $$$ with us - any offer we make will most likely be in the range. But he has to love the club, and the concept of being a one club player, to be in that headspace.

After all, there's a reason clubs like the Swans and the Cats have stayed so dominant for so long. Look at their leaders and then assess the behaviours of those players. No bounty hunters in that lot. Cop a tip - Tom Scully wasn't the first choice marquee signing for the GWS. $$$ alone didn't work for many players - it did for Tom.

And it's the very reason as to why Robbie Flower is iconic at this club.

So yep, in short, Chip is absolutely entitled to wait until the end of the season to make his decision.

Does that approach make him a really good and effective senior leader at the club though? I think not.

And, for me at least, he's unfortunately become just another player.

This is the emotional part of football. We supporters do not get paid to attend matches - the opposite - we dip into our pockets to watch. Players on the other hand are professional - it is their livelihood. And football careers have such a finite span that it understandable that players look to maximise their earnings.

I don't believe that Frawley or any other footballer who prolongs contract discussions is more or less a leader of the club. If Ablett stayed at Geelong would he have not been a great leader like he is at Gold Coast ? Its just that he chose the money. HOWEVER - because I only have emotional investment in this club , any player who drags out the negotiations with the specter of other clubs circling for his services makes me look at them differently than players who don't behave in that fashion. Any emotional attachment I had for Frawley as a "through and through Demon" is well and truly gone.

I will stress however that my emotional distaste for this behavior will not cloud my judgement as to a players worth on the field. I am bemused by how much of an absolute spud Frawley has become in the eyes of some purely because he wont sign a contract. He had a couple of really good years and has been flat as most were under Neeld. He has been serviceable in many games and good in some this year in learning a new and difficult role at CHF with poor service into the forward 50 and a new game plan.

[Coup Cooper 610]

I'm glad that we have a coach as smart as Roos.

If you sit back and look at what he is doin. To me it looks as he is playing thr game with chip frawley as well. First it was neccesity because we have no forwards but when he has been needed down back he has been left forward.

Looks to me that Roos is readying the team for life without Frawley, and if he stays its a bonus.

Our back line is solid we are in the better half of points conceded.. If Frawley stays thats great.. But if not, its not going leave a massive hole in our side, throw in another quality mid and get Hogan on the park, we will improve quickly!

I say let Chip chase success and money if he wants, he has earned it!

[wizardinoz 2,159]

I want to see Frawley to resign just to stick up Denham who is so adament that he is gone.

[nutbean 8,837]

I'm glad that we have a coach as smart as Roos.

If you sit back and look at what he is doin. To me it looks as he is playing thr game with chip frawley as well. First it was neccesity because we have no forwards but when he has been needed down back he has been left forward.

Looks to me that Roos is readying the team for life without Frawley, and if he stays its a bonus.

Completely disagree - I don't think it has even entered his thoughts when considering the team structure. If he was readying a team for life without Frawley he would be at Casey. Our forward line was decimated early with no Dawes,Hogan or Clark so Frawley was the obvious choice. He has not done a bad job. The back six have been doing quite well so there has been little need to send Frawley back. Last week in the second half Roos threw our fullback Dunn forward so they did switch him with Frawley.

Stay, go whatever but I think you are reading way too much into the rationale of Frawley playing forward.

[beelzebub 22,703]

I want to see Frawley to resign just to stick up Denham who is so adament that he is gone.

I just want Melbourne to win, I dont care who plays for us.

I want the best outcome for the club

[Bedraggled Dee 336]

I th

Completely disagree - I don't think it has even entered his thoughts when considering the team structure. If he was readying a team for life without Frawley he would be at Casey. Our forward line was decimated early with no Dawes,Hogan or Clark so Frawley was the obvious choice. He has not done a bad job. The back six have been doing quite well so there has been little need to send Frawley back. Last week in the second half Roos threw our fullback Dunn forward so they did switch him with Frawley.

Stay, go whatever but I think you are reading way too much into the rationale of Frawley playing forward.

Not sure its as black and white as that. Given the need to find a tall to play forward the discussion would inevitably have included the likelyhood of Chip leaving and I would hope would impact on the decision. That being said it is obviously not the only factor.

In relation to Chips decision to ut off negotiations, that is his right, I just dont like it and it lowers Chips standing to me.

I personally think he has discussed his desire to go with Club officals if the club does not perform in the short term so may stay if win another 6 or more games but if we only get one or two more wins he will be off. I dont blame him I just dont like players not supporting the club as much as I do.

[nutbean 8,837]

I personally think he has discussed his desire to go with Club officals if the club does not perform in the short term so may stay if win another 6 or more games but if we only get one or two more wins he will be off. I dont blame him I just dont like players not supporting the club as much as I do.

I would be gobsmacked if that was the case.

Firstly, players don't discuss contracts and their intentions with the clubs - that is what their managers are for. This has been drilled into the players by their managers and respected by the club. Even the pressers that are done are agreed to by both the club AND the managers and the managers try and carefully stage manage what is said. But watch Frawley during his presser. Once he gets asked a question that is not entirely to his script he fumbles and mumbles and frankly gives some embarrassing responses. Can you imagine for a minute his manager allowing him to talk to the club about his expectations surrounding him signing again ?

[The Chazz 4,077]

I think he is going, and thought it for a while.

But instead of saying that our backline has copped without him for much of this year, I'm in absolutely no doubt that our backline would be better with him in it.

RPFC - If all things are fair and equal (ie no injury list, players playing in their position of strength, etc), Frawley is absolutely in the Top 5 of our most important players.

[nutbean 8,837]

But instead of saying that our backline has copped without him for much of this year, I'm in absolutely no doubt that our backline would be better with him in it.

Absolutely however at one stage we ad no big forward except Fitzy - he has played forward by necessity.

Edited June 26, 2014 by nutbean

[beelzebub 22,703]

Frawley would only be top 5 if his head was in the game sts.

Not sure where its at sometimes

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

This is the emotional part of football. We supporters do not get paid to attend matches - the opposite - we dip into our pockets to watch. Players on the other hand are professional - it is their livelihood. And football careers have such a finite span that it understandable that players look to maximise their earnings.

I don't believe that Frawley or any other footballer who prolongs contract discussions is more or less a leader of the club. If Ablett stayed at Geelong would he have not been a great leader like he is at Gold Coast ? Its just that he chose the money. HOWEVER - because I only have emotional investment in this club , any player who drags out the negotiations with the specter of other clubs circling for his services makes me look at them differently than players who don't behave in that fashion. Any emotional attachment I had for Frawley as a "through and through Demon" is well and truly gone.

I will stress however that my emotional distaste for this behavior will not cloud my judgement as to a players worth on the field. I am bemused by how much of an absolute spud Frawley has become in the eyes of some purely because he wont sign a contract. He had a couple of really good years and has been flat as most were under Neeld. He has been serviceable in many games and good in some this year in learning a new and difficult role at CHF with poor service into the forward 50 and a new game plan.

I have not ever made one career decision based on money. The people with whom I work, the culture of the organisation, the prospect of self improvement etc have always been bigger factors for me. That said, other people with whom I have worked, in exactly the same position, have made different decisions based on similar opportunities that have been offered to them.

That's why I say, it's ultimately a question of priorities. Some players are more dedicated clubmen than others - and that's not to patronise those who approach the game as a business. But, don't be surprised that the players who approach their contract negotiations, let's say, more commercially, don't engender the same affection amongst supporters as those players who make big personal sacrifices for the club, its success and the players with whom they play (ie, trying to keep the list together).

Frawley may very well stay. I'm happy either way (as long as we secure good compensation, that is, if he leaves). Much, I expect, will depend on what other clubs are ultimately prepared to pay him relative to what we are.

And, for this reason, Frawley is unlikely to ever be a Cameron Ling or a Boomer Harvey or a Nathan Jones in my mind. He'll be just another player journeying through the AFL. It's also why that 'loyal, country lad' rhetoric has become so annoying to me, because his conduct to date hasn't matched the words coming out of his mouth.

[Machsy 2,858]

If Chip is to go to Geelong, they will still slide.

They may sneak into the 8 next year (doubtful) but they are in need of a rebuild.

[rpfc 27,673]

RPFC - If all things are fair and equal (ie no injury list, players playing in their position of strength, etc), Frawley is absolutely in the Top 5 of our most important players.

No he isn't.

The very fact that he could leave and his on-field presence be replaced by a kid in Hogan should tell you that.

[Machsy 2,858]

No he isn't.

The very fact that he could leave and his on-field presence be replaced by a kid in Hogan should tell you that.

Unless Hogan himself is also top 5.

And it also depends on whether you think our backline would be stronger with Frawley in it.

[Ted Lasso 17,302]

Imo our most important players right now are

Dunn ( defensive general)

Dawes

N.Jones

Jamar

McDonald

Cross

Vince

Jetta

Frawley

[nutbean 8,837]

Imo our most important players right now are

Dunn ( defensive general)

Dawes

N.Jones

Jamar

McDonald

Cross

Vince

Jetta

Frawley

It is subjective - who would have had Dunn at the top of their list 3 years ago. He has come such a long way.

[rpfc 27,673]

Does that approach make him a really good and effective senior leader at the club though? I think not.

And, for me at least, he's unfortunately become just another player.

Your last line is closer to what my point is - a leader is a leader because of the group below - he is not seen as a 'mercenary' to his teammates, as they are the other potential mercenaries in this new AFL landscape that does not reward early decision making on contracts.

If they see his delay of talks (and as a purveyor of US sports - this is not a delay at all - simply proper process in the new landscape) as a sign of a lack of leadership I would be surprised. His teammates should, and would be, more disappointed in his inability to play consistent football in 2014 and for lazy involvements like the one that threw Terlich under a bus a few weeks ago against Collingwood when he didn't help the bloke out with a sheppard, when he could have.

If you think he is a poor leader at the MFC for his non-committal utterances about tenure then what do we make of Roos or Jackson for that matter? How long are they here for, in what role?

So my answer is that his approach to FA is irrelevant to his leadership of that group and an aspect of the new landscape that 'the club' should get used to. Clubs have been signing fringe players later and later these days - and sometimes delisting them before picking them up again (Jetta), the players have been given more freedom and it needs to be understood and dealt with, not met with handwringing and bitterness.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Why doesn't my quote button work? Very annoying.

I'm of the view that if we were in a position where we could afford to do it, I would move Frawley back to the backline at the blink of an eye, and everyone would move around to fit him in.

At the moment we need him to play KPF, mainly due to the fact that Fitzy isn't "eligible" to play seniors due to form at Casey, Clark has gone and Hogan is injured.

If Hogan was 100% fit, there is NO chance Frawley would be dropped for him. Chip would find himself straight in the backline and someone will make way for him.

How that doesn't equal a very important player (top 5) is beyond me.

RPFC - for the sake of it, who's your Top 5 most important at the MFC?

[rpfc 27,673]

Unless Hogan himself is also top 5.

And it also depends on whether you think our backline would be stronger with Frawley in it.

It's doing quite well without him...

So if Dunn, McDonald, and Garland are doing fine without him - what does that say about his importance?

There is a statistic used in the US called Wins Above Replacement Player and it essentially the worth of a player weighted against an average player for that position - how replaceable someone is.

Frawley would not have a high WARP...

He has moved out of the defence and our defence has improved by 7 goals. The causal relationship is not as simple as that but it is telling us that Frawley absence has been mitigated by the players that have moved down there (Howe, Jetta) or the improvement of those already there (Dunn, McDonald, Grimes).

[rpfc 27,673]

RPFC - for the sake of it, who's your Top 5 most important at the MFC?

Jones, Viney, Tyson, Dawes, and Hogan.

The importance of those 5 are because of them being our star mid, two more mids that should get there, the leader forward role player, and the future of the club.

The next would be some order of McDonald, Dunn, Howe, Frawley, Vince, Watts, Garland, and Trengove. And with so many of those players defenders it is little wonder why so many people want to 'swap' Frawley for a mid...

[Pennant St Dee 11,744]

Why doesn't my quote button work? Very annoying.

I'm of the view that if we were in a position where we could afford to do it, I would move Frawley back to the backline at the blink of an eye, and everyone would move around to fit him in.

At the moment we need him to play KPF, mainly due to the fact that Fitzy isn't "eligible" to play seniors due to form at Casey, Clark has gone and Hogan is injured.

If Hogan was 100% fit, there is NO chance Frawley would be dropped for him. Chip would find himself straight in the backline and someone will make way for him.

How that doesn't equal a very important player (top 5) is beyond me.

RPFC - for the sake of it, who's your Top 5 most important at the MFC?

IMO The 5 most important players to our club are

Nate Jones - he is the heart of our team, bleeds red & blue, loves the club and sets the standard for others to follow, what he has done in regard to his committment is similar to what Boak did at Port. It was a statement where he said no point whinging about the clubs predicament and using it as a reason to leave, I am going to lead the charge for this club to move up. Other younger players followed their captain and committed to Port rather than return to their home states

Lynden Dunn - can play tall or small, is currently the defensive general and IMO is in All Australian form, Dunn is currently in the 3-4 year period of his best footy years

Mark Jamar - we are light on for quality rucks and his return to form has been no coincidence saw us starting to win clearances and playing our best footy for the year

Chris Dawes - another fantastic leader for the club, holds together our forward structure and leads by example

Daniel Cross - he is the benchmark of profesisonalism and sets the standards in training and game preparation. The Sylvia's & Maloneys are gone, Tyson, Viney, Kent, Toumpas, Watts and others need to learn from him and Vince

They are my Top 5 and IMO they are all committed to the club, which puts them above Frawley on my observations, Currently I see Frawley as gone so after these top 5 I would have

Dom Tyson - on current observations he is the one with a nice bit of poise and class in the midfield and I see him as the midfield general in the next year or two

Bernie Vince - another top quality midfield for the next 3 years whilst the transition continues before Viney, Kent, Toumpas, Trengove and the new brigade take over. 2012-13 showed us what a severly weakened Midfield can do

Tom Mcdonald - Very promising key defender who IMO will only get better when he learns how to utilise his strengths and minimise his deficincies

Jesse Hogan - we simply need a key forward to stand up Dawes holds the forward structure together but if you are the one leading high half forward and marking we need another quality forward to remain inside 50 and lead hard or create the contest for the crumbing forwards

Jack Watts - Wattsy has improved so much this year and is getting to where he should be if he can continue his improvement he has a lot of X fatcor

On top of those Viney, JKH, Salem, Kent, Toumpas all developing under natural progression and learning from the leaders we have along with Trengove getting his body right and back to his best sees us as a much better club than the one we were 12-18 months ago. Howe seems to be developing nicely into a quality defender and others are improving, but we must not rest on our laurels and continue to improve and turn the list over every year so we never stagnate and decline like we did in the mid 2000's to now.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Pennant St Dee