Lord Jesus.

My argument from the beginning was this: McKenzie is a limited footballer.

Your argument was that McKenzie was in the same category as Magner and Couch. You were stupid to say so and have failed to back up that statement.

Nobody is arguing that McKenzie is the "complete" footballer, just that he's much better than the two you mentioned. Nobody has said he'll stay on the list or make a career of AFL footy from this point.

But don't be stupid enough to ignore his achievements.

I'd bring Kent in for Bail. Kents hands, & use with the ball & his run, is superior to Bails. play similar role. I'd look at Clisby in for someone. if Terlich doesn't pass muster.

I'm not Bail's biggest fan, but he has been pretty consistent this year. He continues to lead our tackle count every week. I've been impressed over the last three to four weeks. He stays, IMO.

lol

Those were frustrating misses, but leaving him out because of it?

lol

The idea for making unforced changes is to improve the side. As Matt Jones has demonstrated this year that on work ethic and fitness he's easily, easily best 22, if you leave him out, you've automatically made the side worse.

And it's Riley, not Reilly.

Ironically, it was Jones' lack of fitness/lactic acid build up that clearly hampered his efforts to score that gimme the other night. Still, I don't see him as a long term prospect, but for a bloke of limited ability, he's been terrific this year. Gee, I was livid at those two misses though.

I'd send Chip back to play on Jack Rewoldt, he always seems to beat him, Tommy Mac should be too good for Vickery, and Garland can take edwards leaving Dunn to play the role that most suits him.

failing that Pederson to CHB on vickery and Mcdonald on jack leaving chip forward.

Gonzo made a really good point the other day. He said that if Frawley doesn't play on Riewoldt, then Roos probably thinks Frawley is essentially out the door. I think Frawley will probably stay, but Roos seems insistent on letting the current back six do their thing, without any Frawley help.

I think what we should go with is Garland on Riewoldt and get McDonald or Dunn to run off Vickery. I think we'll give Tommy Riewoldt again though. It appears like they keep wanting to play him on the opposition's best forward every week and it's less about the match up, than to hopefully build confidence for Tommy.

"Of the Demon-listed players, Blease and McKenzie were the most prolific with 32 and 30 touches respectively. Both players worked hard in then conditions and did their chances of senior selection no harm.

Tapscott worked his way into the game well, scoring two important goals, while using his strength around the ground. Michie and Aiden Riley both worked hard around the ground and under packs.

Dom Barry played an important running role across the wing, and Jimmy Toumpas worked his way into the match during the last term, with his defensive pressure impressive."

I love this. I really want Jimmy to make it.

I don't think Salem's engine is ready yet to carry out a full four quarter effort. Unless, of course, we start him and then sub him nearing the end of the third.

Gonzo made a really good point the other day. He said that if Frawley doesn't play on Riewoldt, then Roos probably thinks Frawley is essentially out the door. I think Frawley will probably stay, but Roos seems insistent on letting the current back six do their thing, without any Frawley help.

I think what we should go with is Garland on Riewoldt and get McDonald or Dunn to run off Vickery. I think we'll give Tommy Riewoldt again though. It appears like they keep wanting to play him on the opposition's best forward every week and it's less about the match up, than to hopefully build confidence for Tommy.

I'm not sure I agree with that logic. I think Roos would love Frawley back but knows to beat any kind of half decent team we can't rely on Dawes, Watts, Byrnes and JKH as our best forwards.

The reason for Frawley forward and not Dunn is the question I suppose but I think it was more about getting Frawley playing a role where he is valuable and getting Dunn settled in a position.

The big test for what to do with Frawley comes more if/when Hogan came in to the side.

At the same time there's questions with what to do with Howe and Pedersen especially if Gawn really beats down the door at selection.

If burns was to be dropped i just had a random thought that Tapscott could be a chance, depending on Roosey's view of his match fitness and role etc.

E.g. From Brett allison's VFL review:

"Luke played half-forward and on ball. He had 20 possessions. Luke looked really strong around the stoppages and won plenty of contested possessions. He ran in straight lines at the footy and if he didn’t win it, he often caused the ball to spill for other teammates to win as well. So it was a good, strong hit out from Luke. He’s getting back to full fitness now and he can start pressing for senior selection."

From the development side of things, i almost feel that Blease, Tapscott, Strauss, Toumpass should keep getting played at VFL level until they play 5-10 strong games then they may be a chance for AFL level. In the past we have had too much "in for one game out the next.."

I'd like to see kent back and Gawn in for his first hit out if Frawley is to be rested (depending on his endurance - i.e., ability to make and recover from repeated leads).

Go dees

I would love to see mckenzie be given free rain in the midfield instead of tagging players all the time, this would still allow him to be accountable for a man but still contribute a bit more to our own attack.

If that is the case I'd rather see Nate Jones go to him we have enough midfield depth now that if we can nullify their best weapon, Cross, Viney, Vince, Tyson and Bail/JKH with their occasional runs through the middle should see us right in this. Good chance for Jamar to have another win.

If Jones goes to Cotchin they will still have to be aware of Jones being dangerous on the rebound, although to break the Tag they would move Cotchin forward. Should be interesting

I like the idea of it, but Cotchin's much more dangerous forward than Murphy is and we'd probably lose out on that match up. Besides, it stopped being a case of shut down Cotchin, shut down Richmond when Deledio came back into the side. Might be a decent time to move Dunn into a defensive forward position to cut out some of Deledio's influence. Can't think who else we could put on that task.

I don't think Salem's engine is ready yet to carry out a full four quarter effort. Unless, of course, we start him and then sub him nearing the end of the third.

Always a risky proposition of planning to sub someone out, all that needs to happen is one player get injured he's on for the game.

Bail is the club leader in pressure acts for the year , ( article on afl website ' pressure kings ' ) pressure leading to turnovers is what the gameplan is all about . I think he has been ok even in a couple of his quiet games . Elite endurance has a crack and his goal kicking is improving .

Bail is the club leader in pressure acts for the year , ( article on afl website ' pressure kings ' ) pressure leading to turnovers is what the gameplan is all about . I think he has been ok even in a couple of his quiet games . Elite endurance has a crack and his goal kicking is improving .

I'm so happy for Ro Bail.

I thought his career was over after all his concussion issues.

As a poster has already pointed out, Magner and Valenti both also received brownlow votes during their short stints at AFL level.

I think I'd receive support in my comparison of McKenzie to those I mentioned in the sense that they're all one trick ponies. They don't offer enough as footballers and they share the same one attribute. Which is winning the hard ball. So the comparison is a lot closer than your ridiculous analogy suggests.

He was sent back to Casey to try and develop and DISCOVER some attacking attributes. Rediscover? When have we ever seen Jordie burst out of a pack ball in hand to deliver down the throat of a forward? Or kick a running goal? We haven't ever. Some may argue that his role has never been to play the game in that way. But there's a reason why! He doesn't possess those attributes!! So yes, he's been sent back to Casey to try and develop a more rounded game.

I can't argue or debate with posters like you or Saty. You develop such strong feelings for the individual that it blankets your view of his abilities as a player and his value to the team.

I get that McKenzie is a love child of yours. I'm more interested in our club becoming a powerhouse again. It's a ruthless business AFL. I wish McKenzie all the best in his efforts to become a more rounded midfield. But the reality is that we're going to be continually injecting more and more quality over the next couple of years and he will be squeezed out.

Wakey wakey.

Whilst I agree mostly with what you say, I'd prefer the approach of Roos where he sees his job to develop players to the point where they can become the best they can be. It has not been unknown for players to develop from mediocre to very good (eg Pederson, Bail, Michael Tuck, Jim Stynes, Barlow of Freo, Neville Jetta to name a random few - I know some of these are not yet "very good", but all have shown vast improvement). McKenzie has many valuable assets as a player but to develop beyond the fringe he needs to develop his offensive as well as defensive game and vastly improve his disposal. It is possible to do, just look at a Ryan Crowley. He is vastly improved offensively, as well as being the best player defensively in the competition.

Does anyone know what stats they use at the club ? Would love to know .

It would most likely explain for example why Byrnes gets games ahead of the more talented guys like Bleasey.

I heard the other day that Port use meters gained as a key indicater . Im sure the stats we see in the media are the tip of the iceberg.

Does anyone know what stats they use at the club ? Would love to know .

It would most likely explain for example why Byrnes gets games ahead of the more talented guys like Bleasey.

I heard the other day that Port use meters gained as a key indicater . Im sure the stats we see in the media are the tip of the iceberg.

TBH I reckon that Roos is smarter than those who base their assessments on stats (as I suspect an inexperienced coach without people skills such as Neeld may have relied more heavily upon) : he can get a "gut feeling" watching the little things that a player does that contribute to the whole. I guess some of these may be recorded as "one percenters" but there is so much more. Maybe call it intuition ? And yes I am sure they have loads of statistics as well, but as we all know stats can be deceiving, either underestimating or overestimating a particular player's contribution.

Is Frawley definitely out?

Also, i would love to see Riley. We've seen plenty of Mckenzie, give Riley a go

At every training session I have seen, all the players wear GPS, a lot of them check out the numbers at the end from the guys monitoring on the sideline and Roos has checked when guys have been coming back from injury, so as well as stats there is interest in how hard players are working at training, Roos can obviously judge for himself but he has data to back it up

I would love to see mckenzie be given free rain in the midfield instead of tagging players all the time, this would still allow him to be accountable for a man but still contribute a bit more to our own attack.

Not strong enough, not enough speed, no hurt with his disposals.

And no player is given free rein in the midfield under Roos.

Pederson, Bail, Michael Tuck, Jim Stynes,

Fair company for Pedersen and Bail I would've thought....

How are we paying 5.25 to 1.16 to win this? that is waaay too long! Richmond are 2-5 and 15th on the ladder, and we beat them in the pre-season!

"Luke played half-forward and on ball. He had 20 possessions. Luke looked really strong around the stoppages and won plenty of contested possessions. He ran in straight lines at the footy and if he didn’t win it, he often caused the ball to spill for other teammates to win as well. So it was a good, strong hit out from Luke. He’s getting back to full fitness now and he can start pressing for senior selection."

I want Tapscott to succeed but I feel that his biggest weakness is that he has no agility and can only run in straight lines.

TBH I reckon that Roos is smarter than those who base their assessments on stats (as I suspect an inexperienced coach without people skills such as Neeld may have relied more heavily upon) : he can get a "gut feeling" watching the little things that a player does that contribute to the whole. I guess some of these may be recorded as "one percenters" but there is so much more. Maybe call it intuition ? And yes I am sure they have loads of statistics as well, but as we all know stats can be deceiving, either underestimating or overestimating a particular player's contribution.

I agree and stats can be misleading . Roosy may have a way of communicating the little things he values to the players in the form of a stat and possibly a focus on only a handfull of these. Its a good question for a player.

Out: Frawley, Terlich, Byrnes

In: Mckenzie, Kent, Gawn

At every training session I have seen, all the players wear GPS, a lot of them check out the numbers at the end from the guys monitoring on the sideline and Roos has checked when guys have been coming back from injury, so as well as stats there is interest in how hard players are working at training, Roos can obviously judge for himself but he has data to back it up

I wonder if they wear a heart rate monitor as an indicater also.

How are we paying 5.25 to 1.16 to win this? that is waaay too long! Richmond are 2-5 and 15th on the ladder, and we beat them in the pre-season!

Tiges just looked to be regaining some confidence and form in the match against Geelong. Plus they'll be going flat out for this one for obvious reasons.

It suddenly looks pretty close on paper, which you couldn't say this time last year. I badly want to win it, if only to hear all those microwaves firing up..