Stats that Matter (or a truck load of bulldust?)

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Just some basic scraps they throw us FWIW. Stats are inclusive of all games to Round 4. Yes it's only 4 rounds of data but i think it's time to take a peek and check out who's doing what. I'll try and do same after Rnd 8, 12 etc.

Player Top 5 Rankings

Contested (average per game)

1. The Jones Boy (11.5)

2. D Tyson (10.7)

3. D Cross (9.5)

4. B Vince (7.7)

5. J Viney (7.5)

Uncontested

1. The Jones Boy (18.5)

2. D Tyson (16.2)

3. J Frawley (15.2)

4. M Jones (14.2)

5. B Vince (14.0)

Effective Disposals

1. The Jones Boy (21.2)

2. D Tyson (20.0)

3. J Grimes (18.0)

4. M Jones (17.0)

5. J Toumpas (16.2)

Effective Disposal % (Best)

1. A Georgiou (84.6%)

2. J Toumpas (83.7%)

3. M Jones (79.5%)

4. J Grimes (79.5%)

5. D Kent (79.2%)

AFL average (70.9%) - Excludes MFC

MFC average (70.7%) - All Players to Rnd 4

MFC vs Carlton (74.7%)

MFC vs Giants (60.5%)

MFC vs Eagles (72.1%)

MFC vs Saints (75.9%)

Effective Disposal % (Worst)

1. M Evans (31.3%)

2. J Viney (56.5%)

3. B Vince (58.8%)

4. J Kennedy-Harris (64.0%)

5. J Fitzpatrick (64.2%)

Clangers

1. D Tyson (4.5)

2. J Viney (4.0)

3. The Jones Boy (3.5)

4. J Kennedy-Harris (3.0)

5. R Bail (2.5)

Clearances

1. The Jones Boy (5.7)

2. D Tyson (4.7)

3. D Cross (3.5)

4. J Viney (3.0)

5. B Vince (2.7)

Tackles

1. D Cross (8.7)

2. J Viney (6.5)

3. The Jones Boy (6.0)

4. R Bail (5.5)

5. J Spencer (4.5)

Stats: Courtesy of Footywire

Edited April 17, 2014 by Rusty Nails

[Moonshadow 17,601]

Effective disposals best Georgiou? Like it.

[Whispering_Jack 29,370]

The figures tell us what a great pick up Dom Tyson has been for us and how ignorant the muppets in the media are who make a big deal about our choosing to take Tyson and pick 9 for pick 2 and a lower selection. If N Jones and Tyson keep going the way they have to date, both will make the shortlist for AA selection. I also think that in time there's every chance of some chemistry developing with Jack Viney, his old teammate from the Oakleigh Chargers.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Effective disposals best Georgiou? Like it.

Yes it's a pretty good effort from a first year eh. However, there's a good deal of the stuff in the back half that could be considered junk disposals i guess as they chip it around so much these days. Of course some of it could also be very good quality. Champion data has the good oil on more meaningful data that we will obviously never be privy to. It's interesting to look over though.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

The figures tell us what a great pick up Dom Tyson has been for us and how ignorant the muppets in the media are who make a big deal about our choosing to take Tyson and pick 9 for pick 2 and a lower selection. If N Jones and Tyson keep going the way they have to date, both will make the shortlist for AA selection. I also think that in time there's every chance of some chemistry developing with Jack Viney, his old teammate from the Oakleigh Chargers.

Early days but it's a promising start WJ. I think the media just assume anyone we choose will probably end up being the 2nd best option due to our poor recent record on these matters. Hopefully it's not just the media assuming these things if we are turning it around on the field and off (development). Without wanting to talk him up too much he could well be an A grader for us given a few more pre seasons if all goes well.

[Little Goffy 14,163]

My favourite thing about round 4 was the turnaround in the 'spread' of tackle numbers.

Bad enough that our total was low, but for rounds 1 to 3 it was Cross, Jones, Spencer and fresh air. Those three between them got, literally (actually literally) half our tackles.

Viney came in for round 3 that helped a little.

But then, in round 4, the whole team got in on it. Opposition players, no matter who their opponent and where they were on the ground, actually had to be aware that they could be tackled.

Huge difference. Without arguing the specific merits of tackle counts of a game winning stat, the fact that it went from being carried by three, to being a team effort, tells a sweet story.

[rpfc 28,084]

Liking the look of those uncontested ball winners and the numbers...

I will have to bump my uncontested possession thread if it keeps up.

[jimbo1982 94]

Vince, Cross & Tyson. Simply the reason we have a win by round 4 this year.

[What 18,810]

Effective Disposal % (Worst)

1. M Evans (31.3%)

2. J Viney (56.5%)

Very small sample size for Jack, that % will head well north. (Same for Evans obviously) I dont remember Jack wasting a possession on the weekend and he was brilliant all game

[Whispering_Jack 29,370]

Huge difference. Without arguing the specific merits of tackle counts of a game winning stat, the fact that it went from being carried by three, to being a team effort, tells a sweet story.

There's another relevant statistic at play here i.e the number 2. It takes two to tango. The big question is whether the sudden improvement is due to a change taking place within the MFC or whether our opposition was so uninterested and putrid that we were able to effectively up our tackle count for the game as a result.

We need a bigger sample size to determine whether the statistic is telling the truth or telling lies.

[P-man 13,366]

Those top five contested ball and clearance winners are the perfect illustration of improvement in the midfield from last year. It used to be Jones with Viney lending a hand. Now there are three more contributors in between.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,224]

A player can have 6 effective handballs and 1 effective kick + 3 ineffective kicks(1 out of bounds and two straight to opposition which result directly in goals and costs the game) and the stats say 70% efficiency.

Another player could have 40 touches, 24 kicks and 6 handballs which are part of hardball gets/clearances and score assists as well as kick two goals but also have 5 handballs and 5 kicks which don't hit their intended target but don't result directly in opposition goals and he sits at just 75%.

I think tackles where the person getting tackled can still dispose of the ball shouldn't count but they do.

[rpfc 28,084]

I am tracking some stats for the team against what we did last year and how we are going against our opponents. I might do an update next week or the week after. The signs are promising but we are still being beaten quite easily in most categories.

Clearances are a worry but our mids are new, young, NQR, or 1 person so that will have to be something we get to see improvement in later.

[Nasher 33,607]

I love that Jack "Worst Disposal In The History Of The Game According To Demonland Experts" Grimes is ranked 4th for effective disposals. Further proof that people just see what they want to see.

[Redleg 40,444]

I love that Jack "Worst Disposal In The History Of The Game According To Demonland Experts" Grimes is ranked 4th for effective disposals. Further proof that people just see what they want to see.

Must admit that it was a shock to me.

BTW I don't want to see Jack missing passes.

PS. It was an extra shock to me, as I watch him closely in games, as my family sponsors him and have for the last few years.

PPs. The one I fear with the ball is Bail, but he occasionally does well with it.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Redleg

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,224]

There's no excuse for not tackling, every player should at least be able to tackle once per qtr.

[Redleg 40,444]

There's no excuse for not tackling, every player should at least be able to tackle once per qtr.

Sensational effort for Jake to be 5th in tackling, considering the amount of work he has been asked to do, alone in the ruck.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Effective Disposal % (Worst)

1. M Evans (31.3%)

2. J Viney (56.5%)

Very small sample size for Jack, that % will head well north. (Same for Evans obviously) I dont remember Jack wasting a possession on the weekend and he was brilliant all game

Very true Hoges. In fact it's a very small sample for the team overall really and probably too early but had to get started at some point and why not after our first win! The data set will be a little more robust after Rnd 6 to 8 so we'll have a better idea then once some of the new entry players have put in hopefully 5 to 6 games each (at least).

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

A player can have 6 effective handballs and 1 effective kick + 3 ineffective kicks(1 out of bounds and two straight to opposition which result directly in goals and costs the game) and the stats say 70% efficiency.

Another player could have 40 touches, 24 kicks and 6 handballs which are part of hardball gets/clearances and score assists as well as kick two goals but also have 5 handballs and 5 kicks which don't hit their intended target but don't result directly in opposition goals and he sits at just 75%.

I think tackles where the person getting tackled can still dispose of the ball shouldn't count but they do.

That's a good point Al. That's why many of these publicly available junk stats have to be taken with a grain of salt at times. There is one very loose stat they provide us with where you can also see if a player is prone to turnovers (which might/or might not result in a goal etc) and that's clangers. So the 2 are worth looking at in unison. High efficiency and high on the clanger count might indicate something along the lines of what you're suggesting. Only by watching the match live (replay or being there) would you really get a true indication of a player's efficient ball use when the heat is on. Oh, or a feed into the decent stuff from Champion data.... any talented hackers on here!??

[rpfc 28,084]

Ok, had a quick look at the uncontested possession numbers for some individuals compared to the rest of the AFL.

Last year we had 2 players in the top 100 average UP winners. Clisby averaged 13.9 a game in his short stint. Matt Jones ave 12.3.

This year we have 8 players in the top 100 with 7 of these players averaging 14+ (!). This means that Matt Jones has gone up in his numbers and the AFL rankings AND slipped down to 5th at the MFC...

N Jones has gone up about 100 places in the list to equal 15th - he is getting a lot more space and freedom. 12 UPs a game to 18.

Hoo-effing-ray!

I hope they stack up like this further into the season.

For those interested, the 8 are (in order) Jones, Tyson, Frawley, Trengove, M Jones, Vince, Grimes, and Watts.

[DEE fence 4,964]

The stat I like is the conceded points. We are light years better than last year, and that is after a touch up from west coast, 269 points less.

2013

Melbourne 4 1 0 3 317 597 53.10% 4

2014

Melbourne 4 1 0 3 209 328 63.72% 4

With a forward line the % will improve, I have no doubt, even with the thumpings we are going to get from Geelong and Hawthorn.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Ingeniokinetikey

[ManDee 7,124]

Comparison between Dom Tyson and Josh Kelly.

This season

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?tid1=12&pid1=3641&tid2=25&pid2=3919&type=A&fid1=S&fid2=S

At the same age

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?tid1=12&pid1=3641&tid2=25&pid2=3919&type=A&fid1=O&fid2=O

Don't journalists have access to facts? Oh that's right they just make stuff up.

Edit- Spelling plus more stats

Edited April 18, 2014 by ManDee

[P-man 13,366]

I love that Jack "Worst Disposal In The History Of The Game According To Demonland Experts" Grimes is ranked 4th for effective disposals. Further proof that people just see what they want to see.

Not really. I would've thought it is evidence of an improvement in his kicking, which is noticeable. Admittedly I don't know where he would've ranked in previous seasons, but I'd be amazed if it was as high as 4th.

It's when and where he turns the ball over that makes it stick out in people's minds. But credit to him. He has improved.

[titan_uranus 24,925]

I love that Jack "Worst Disposal In The History Of The Game According To Demonland Experts" Grimes is ranked 4th for effective disposals. Further proof that people just see what they want to see.

I think we've established numerous times here that statistics never tell the entire story.

The effective disposal statistics is no exception. It is a bogus statistic. I remember reading the definition of an effective disposal in the AFL Prospectus once, and from memory it includes kicks which travel 40 metres or more and go to a 50/50 (or better). So, you could kick it 50 metres to JKH vs Jamison and that would be effective.

Similarly, the stat doesn't speak to how bad your ineffective disposals are. Grimes regularly turns it over directly to the opposition, as opposed to those kind of kicks which go to a 2-on-1 or get spoiled or something like that. I find him to be as bad as anyone in our side for turning the ball over directly to the opposition, and when you're running off half-back that's both more damaging and more noticeable.

The stat I like is the conceded points. We are light years better than last year, and that is after a touch up from west coast, 269 points less.

2013

Melbourne 4 1 0 3 317 597 53.10% 4

2014

Melbourne 4 1 0 3 209 328 63.72% 4

With a forward line the % will improve, I have no doubt, even with the thumpings we are going to get from Geelong and Hawthorn.

Even though I know we've played Carlton, St Kilda and GWS, I still believe that is a significant improvement and comes from a wide range of things, including a far more competitive midfield, more time with the ball in our hands instead of the opponents', and fewer turnovers.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,224]

I think we've established numerous times here that statistics never tell the entire story.

The effective disposal statistics is no exception. It is a bogus statistic. I remember reading the definition of an effective disposal in the AFL Prospectus once, and from memory it includes kicks which travel 40 metres or more and go to a 50/50 (or better). So, you could kick it 50 metres to JKH vs Jamison and that would be effective.

Similarly, the stat doesn't speak to how bad your ineffective disposals are. Grimes regularly turns it over directly to the opposition, as opposed to those kind of kicks which go to a 2-on-1 or get spoiled or something like that. I find him to be as bad as anyone in our side for turning the ball over directly to the opposition, and when you're running off half-back that's both more damaging and more noticeable.

Even though I know we've played Carlton, St Kilda and GWS, I still believe that is a significant improvement and comes from a wide range of things, including a far more competitive midfield, more time with the ball in our hands instead of the opponents', and fewer turnovers.

We've added new midfielders, new coach(again), new gameplan(again)the forward line is yet to settle. Once team gels a big more we should start to see even more improvement.