Granted that Brodie Grundy has not had a good first 4 games, but isn't this his second year? Has only played a handful of games. Bit tough to be made first ruck for the most followed team in your city after only 7 first year games. Should be still learning in the 2's. Just turned 20. Loads of up side. Doesn't compare yet to the disappointment of Nic Nat. I'd love him playing alongside Spencil.

More suggesting that he is overhyped because he is a very mediocre player at the moment, not that he isn'T promising. Versus Richmond the commentators - harley, commetti, mcavaney - on at least a half dozen occasions mentioned how a great a player he was and he did barely anything the other night. At this stage he is a big young kid who competes pretty well in the ruck and puts in some good second efforts at ground level and does very little else. The fact he has three superstar midfielders helps him. When he was subbed out, i assume because Witts outperformed him and they added a runner, commentators were saying they were resting him which i dont think was true.

Auburn hair and whitey and he would hardly get a mention. Most Politically correct overated player in AFL. Give me Watts any day as a player but he is hardly hard at it either.

More suggesting that he is overhyped because he is a very mediocre player at the moment, not that he isn'T promising. Versus Richmond the commentators - harley, commetti, mcavaney - on at least a half dozen occasions mentioned how a great a player he was and he did barely anything the other night. At this stage he is a big young kid who competes pretty well in the ruck and puts in some good second efforts at ground level and does very little else. The fact he has three superstar midfielders helps him. When he was subbed out, i assume because Witts outperformed him and they added a runner, commentators were saying they were resting him which i dont think was true.

Fair enough good oil. But I just can't agree that a guy can be overhyped at the moment when at the moment his history is 11 AFL games. After 50 or 70 games, maybe. Several of his early games were very good, so on percentages of good games to bad he's doing better than Watts, but Watts has played about 80 games. Statistics can be misleading. My point being is that it's ridiculous to call a guy overhyped and very mediocre at the moment after 11 games.

Fair enough good oil. But I just can't agree that a guy can be overhyped at the moment when at the moment his history is 11 AFL games. After 50 or 70 games, maybe. Several of his early games were very good, so on percentages of good games to bad he's doing better than Watts, but Watts has played about 80 games. Statistics can be misleading. My point being is that it's ridiculous to call a guy overhyped and very mediocre at the moment after 11 games.

He is overhyped by the media, not me, and statistically and to my eye, at least, he is performing at a mediocre level, breaking even at best with a superb midfield underneath him. Not saying he is not useful and not saying he won't become a fine ruckman, just that he is overrated versus his output. Would also add Jimmy Toumpas gets a very raw deal in terms of the criticism he receives and the comparisons he is set to, off a small sample size of 15 or so games.

Here is another one close to our hearts.

How come a $1million pa player who struggles to hold his place gets no mention.

Imagine if he was still at the Dees!

I'm just glad we dodged a bullet there. Imagine paying him close to that money. He's turned out to be very one-dimensional.

You are talking about a kid who has played less than 10 games, who has been thrown to the wolves in the hardest position physically on the ground. Very game when our ruck stocks are pretty average at best.

Buckley's decision to get rid of Jolly and have faith in Grundy is short-term teething, long-term gain. Melbourne had a chance to follow a similar brave path, but invariably went for "the best team on paper for now".

You will eat your words about Grundy.

What are you talking about, TGR? We've followed that sort of plan too many times. That, you could argue, is one of the major reasons for our extended wretchedness. Getting rid of older bodies that could protect and educate younger players. I think it was a mistake by Buckley. We shall see.

Here is another one close to our hearts.

How come a $1million pa player who struggles to hold his place gets no mention.

Imagine if he was still at the Dees!

That is $1.2m per year for 6 years.

Agree, we are a soft target and because of that, every failing will get magnified by the press, fairly or unfairly.

This bloke is very ordinary and has copped no criticism whatsoever, nor GWS.

Imagine if he was still at the Dees, the headlines would scream, "yet another dud draft pick by the Dees".

Roos also stood up for us the other day, when we were criticized over Kelly. He said those un named recruiters, criticizing us, have done so anonymously. If he had their names he could look at their record and disect it. He also said we wouldn't have taken Kelly at 2 anyway. I thought that was very interesting.

Until we can become competitive we are the soft target.

• Would have Grundy in a heart beat.Would take him ahead of Natanui

That is $1.2m per year for 6 years.

Agree, we are a soft target and because of that, every failing will get magnified by the press, fairly or unfairly.

This bloke is very ordinary and has copped no criticism whatsoever, nor GWS.

Imagine if he was still at the Dees, the headlines would scream, "yet another dud draft pick by the Dees".

Roos also stood up for us the other day, when we were criticized over Kelly. He said those un named recruiters, criticizing us, have done so anonymously. If he had their names he could look at their record and disect it. He also said we wouldn't have taken Kelly at 2 anyway. I thought that was very interesting.

Until we can become competitive we are the soft target.

He likes big-bodied mids, so I guess it's not surprising.

He is overhyped by the media, not me, and statistically and to my eye, at least, he is performing at a mediocre level, breaking even at best with a superb midfield underneath him. Not saying he is not useful and not saying he won't become a fine ruckman, just that he is overrated versus his output. Would also add Jimmy Toumpas gets a very raw deal in terms of the criticism he receives and the comparisons he is set to, off a small sample size of 15 or so games.

Good point.

Would love to see Jake rucking to Pendles, Swan, Beams, Ball and Sidebottom. Bet he would be considered better than he is now.

He is overhyped by the media, not me, and statistically and to my eye, at least, he is performing at a mediocre level, breaking even at best with a superb midfield underneath him. Not saying he is not useful and not saying he won't become a fine ruckman, just that he is overrated versus his output. Would also add Jimmy Toumpas gets a very raw deal in terms of the criticism he receives and the comparisons he is set to, off a small sample size of 15 or so games.

Anyone who cans a player's performance after only a handful of games, be it Grundy or Toump, should have a good hard look at themselves. Players cannot control press hype, its the media's job to create hype.

Edited April 15, 201411 yr by Moonshadow

Brodie Grundy is another - gets talked about like hes the second coming of Simon Madden but is the second worst number 1 ruckman statistically (Champion Data) and the worst per ground time in the compatition and cant take a mark to save his life. Been thrashed by three opponents so far with one draw and was subbed out last game and outplayed by his number 2, Witts.

you've got to be kidding... Born: April 15, 1994 (age 19)... he's only 19.

he starred last year, & the big guys are putting more weight into him.

A) Grundy shouldnt be playing AFL ones at this stage of his development, let alone number 1 ruck, which will prevent collingwood for being premiership contenders until he is 24-25 (in my opinion) and by then the midfield will not be around him anymore.

B) This doesnt mean he doesnt have the potential to be a good player, but he sure as hell doesnt live up to his hype.

C) he only has one hit out technique, and it is the hook over his head, which he used to good effect end of last year.

NicNat is flat out overrated, Jack Watts is consistently underrated, but at the end of the day even if watts had equal touches to that of naitanui i know who would have been more effective with the football.

AFL media is all hype, and at the end of the day the thing that the media do the most that annoys me was talk about all the opposition teams missing players to explain why they are performing so poorly, when they forgot melbourne missing 2 of our best ruckmen, 3 of our key forwards and arguably our best defender.

you've got to be kidding... Born: April 15, 1994 (age 19)... he's only 19.

he starred last year, & the big guys are putting more weight into him.

Happy birthday Brodie Grundy

where in the media has watts been more maligned than this very site?

Watts has support on DL. I cannot recall a journalist ever sticking up for him.

you've got to be kidding... Born: April 15, 1994 (age 19)... he's only 19.

he starred last year, & the big guys are putting more weight into him.

bingo.....and one day later he is now 20 - lol

Happy birthday Brodie Grundy

Future generations of Australians may yell "where are my clean Brodies"

whereas older generations would send out the call for "Regs'"

Those thinking Grundy is overrated or overhyped and they (Buckley) pulled the wrong strings with regard to finishing up Jolly don't have a good handle on things IMO.

Buckley made numerous changes to their list and knows where they are at, which is more than likely not a top 4 side. Therefore realistically not their time this year. They rate Grundy as do I - and by the way take note of what Simon Madden says - if he's up to it (and clearly he is by what he's done to date in using his body and strength), then why hold him back with a half baked Jolly who struggled throughout 2013; and a near useless Hudson.

Demonland is a funny place at times.

So quick to defend their own when a player is being criticised, yet happy to join in the chorus when it comes to opposition players.

Nic Nat and Grundy. Suddenly demonland don't rate them because they're out of form for whatever reason. I've seen them both perform at a level which tells me they are definitely players. Grundy in his second year. Nic Nat perhaps battling injury and finding it hard to find some consistency. Watts managed poorly and still finding it challenging to perform consistently and at the required intensity.

All are still developing.

It's like schoolyard bullying in here. The amount of pent up anger and frustration some posters have is just comical.

Edited April 15, 201411 yr by stevethemanjordan

where in the media has watts been more maligned than this very site?

Edited April 15, 201411 yr by The Song Formerly Known As

Here is another one close to our hearts.

How come a $1million pa player who struggles to hold his place gets no mention.

Imagine if he was still at the Dees!

Not to mention an old man who gets paid as well and is said to have a healthy appetite at club functions.

You must actually have a gif for every single thing imaginable TSFKA.

You must actually have a gif for every single thing imaginable TSFKA.

picture is worth 1000 words, and a GIF is worth 10,000.

Plus it annoys the bejesus out of some people on here, and that gives me a little kick. i'm childish like that.

picture is worth 1000 words, and a GIF is worth 10,000.

Plus it annoys the bejesus out of some people on here, and that gives me a little kick. i'm childish like that.

It may be the amount of time you spend with them!

Demonland is a funny place at times.

So quick to defend their own when a player is being criticised, yet happy to join in the chorus when it comes to opposition players.

Nic Nat and Grundy. Suddenly demonland don't rate them because they're out of form for whatever reason. I've seen them both perform at a level which tells me they are definitely players. Grundy in his second year. Nic Nat perhaps battling injury and finding it hard to find some consistency. Watts managed poorly and still finding it challenging to perform consistently and at the required intensity.

All are still developing.

It's like schoolyard bullying in here. The amount of pent up anger and frustration some posters have is just comical.

Rubbish

As others have already pointed out, Watts has copped plenty on here

If you don't think there is a MASSIVE difference between the reality of the performances of Watts/NicNat and the way they are presented by the media you have rocks in your head, simple as that

and yes we get angry and frustrated by things that affect this club because we care about it, sorry about that