I don't think there are any weaker opponents. I'd have preferred to play the likes of Brisbane, Footscray and Saints who are more our level.

And I think what we need to do is to learn to win more than anything else and start to replace the scars of thrashing after thrashing.

But that is a amateur view and it's why I've said I'd like the view of someone with some experience in the area.

I thought I'd see who Port played in last year's preseason competition. While I accept they weren't as scarred as us, who has ever been, they were coming off a low ebb. They struggled to even get someone who wanted to coach them.

Port won 5 games in 2012 and had a % of 78. In the preseason of 2013 they played Sydney, who were the reigning premiers, Adelaide (4th) and West Coast (5th), Saints and Dees. They had a mixed bag. They beat Sydney and fielded a young team to us and lost.

I don't think who they played had any real effect on their season, other than to say they put in some strong performances against the previous year's top 5 teams, winning 2 of the 3.

Like all Melbourne Supporters I am sick of losing on mass

All I want for now is to see a competitive team that I can once more be proud of .

Once we have that pride back we can look forward to finals .

We as supporters have had to supposedly grin and bear it .

We have seen some very ordinary decisions made both with Coaches and Recruitment in the past .

All I want to see is some real success

I hope Paul Roos can deliver it . If he can so much the better

But for now I'm on Roos side . People lighten up , give him a chance after all he cant be any worse than those before him. Can he ???

Plus I also like the Fact that Roos Validates everything I have said about Jack Watts to family and Friends .

I have always and will always be appalled about the way the MFC handled Jacks Debut and the way none of his teammates at the time stood up for him.

When he got clobbered

Any other club bar Melbourne and it would have been a Melee at the bear minimum !!

I never want to see that happen again at our club .

Hopefully Roos manages to install some pride back into our players about themselves as well as the guernsey they wear !

All I can say is Go Dees and all the best to all involved for the season!

Ahhhh.....that was the preliminary final....

Just sayin.....

Aaarrrggh. Schoolboy error. (crawls into hole).....

When you say FACT, I assume you don't mean when we were 22 points up at 3/4 time in the 1987 grand final?

Because I'd say with my vastly inferior footy knowledge to yours, that we looked pretty much like winning a GF had Eishold and a few others not panicked....

Just sayin.....

That was the "Jimma PF" jnrmac....and as stated above, whoever won that epic battle in the heat at Waverley were going to be toast for the Cheaters who had a week off under the then system. But, yes, Eishold had a choke of Normanic proportions.

1994 was close as well. We were on fire in finals against Carlton and Footscray but ran into a brick wall, also against WCE over there on a day when we were jumped at the start and couldn't get back into the game in windy conditions. The next year the Ox did his knee, we lost Jako, had a series of disastrous injuries (Lyon, Tingay, Prymke), Martin Pike went ape and we lost it for a few years.

It was Ox as I recall who ran into a brick wall - got concussed in the dying moments vs Footscray. Not sure if he played the following week or not, but if he did wasn't up to it.

Without being too conspiratorial, there was something a little fishy about the physiques of some of those West Coast blokes from the early '90's...

Not sure if it was fishy, or some other biological matter !

GWS are going to the surprise packet this year.

ONG - tell that to Vlad, the only person in the universe who would actually care about his pet franchise.

I don't know about Plan a and plan b, but what the dees have had a huge weakness under ND, Bailey and Neeld was stopping an opposition's momentum when they got a run on. How often in the last decade have we been in an ok position only for the opposition to suddenly take control of the match and kick a swag of un-answered goals?

As some have noted perhaps a tweak of the game plan in those circumstances is what is required, rather than another style altogether (something Roos was adamant in the Age article would not occur ie they will use the same game plan no matter who they are playing). The obvious tweak is to keep possession through short kicks, hold on to the ball for longer, create stoppages and control the tempo rather than counter attack with a slingshot out of defence (which will the normal modus operandi). This is how the Hawks, Freo, Swans and to a lsser etent Cats stop another teams momentum.

in the 90's as well.

we've always tended to be front runners, attacking, but defend with reluctance.

part of the mcg culture that has hindered us for much time, since the days of smith.

I don't know about Plan a and plan b, but what the dees have had a huge weakness under ND, Bailey and Neeld was stopping an opposition's momentum when they got a run on. How often in the last decade have we been in an ok position only for the opposition to suddenly take control of the match and kick a swag of un-answered goals?

As some have noted perhaps a tweak of the game plan in those circumstances is what is required, rather than another style altogether (something Roos was adamant in the Age article would not occur ie they will use the same game plan no matter who they are playing). The obvious tweak is to keep possession through short kicks, hold on to the ball for longer, create stoppages and control the tempo rather than counter attack with a slingshot out of defence (which will the normal modus operandi). This is how the Hawks, Freo, Swans and to a lsser etent Cats stop another teams momentum.

This is where I will be looking first to see any improvement made. It's this sort of thing that was a give away in previous NAB cup games that we still hadn't got it right. It's been too easy for the opposition to score against us.

But that is an amateur view

Another amateur view only, but I know that you see some of the top horse trainers stressing the idea that they need to give a horse the confidence of winning; e.g., I've heard Moody say that he might give a horse a soft kill in a slightly lower grade before a break to boost the horse's confidence, and get it into a winning habit (esp if it's a good young horse that has been competitive in a campaign without winning). Doesn't mean that you're teaching the horse to "accept mediocrity" , or give it lazy habits.

Strewth, do we need some confidence boosting in an actual game!

The NAB Challenge and the practice game are only Mickey Mouse games. The coaches treat them as such and the players are fully aware of this. It's highly unlikely that any of the teams is going to be at anywhere near full strength or give away any of their planned tactics and strategies in full so I don't have many worries about losing confidence from these games. Carlton would year in year out, lose these pre season games and Sydney only ever won one of them under Roos. They're for practice and trying things out so the risks of destroying confidence or the benefits of gaining it are limited to say the least.

The NAB cup defines a winning culture.

I hope we win.

Another amateur view only, but I know that you see some of the top horse trainers stressing the idea that they need to give a horse the confidence of winning; e.g., I've heard Moody say that he might give a horse a soft kill in a slightly lower grade before a break to boost the horse's confidence, and get it into a winning habit (esp if it's a good young horse that has been competitive in a campaign without winning). Doesn't mean that you're teaching the horse to "accept mediocrity" , or give it lazy habits.

Strewth, do we need some confidence boosting in an actual game!

maybe roosy could get moodsy for his coach succession plan

love to see the boys at flemington for 4am training

That was the "Jimma PF" jnrmac....and as stated above, whoever won that epic battle in the heat at Waverley were going to be toast for the Cheaters who had a week off under the then system. But, yes, Eishold had a choke of Normanic proportions.

It was Ox as I recall who ran into a brick wall - got concussed in the dying moments vs Footscray. Not sure if he played the following week or not, but if he did wasn't up to it.

Not sure if it was fishy, or some other biological matter !

ONG - tell that to Vlad, the only person in the universe who would actually care about his pet franchise.

I don't really care, perse, I'm interested in watching their team….in time, their power forwards will be very damaging.

To be honest I saw we were in big trouble as a club when no players stood up for Watts in his first game.

I didn't see much evidence for the proposition that the players were unfit and the fact that Roosy kept Misso on board suggests this is wrong.

Also not sure about Neeld's "leadership". More a case of inability to stamp his authority on the group.

I wonder whether Paul Roos would think in terms of "stamping his authority" on the players? Doubt it, myself.

GWS are going to the surprise packet this year.

what do they think they'll find in it?

what do they think they'll find in it?

Typo.

GWS will be the surprise packet this year.

As a coach he also identified each individual's strengths rather than dwelling on their weaknesses.

"One of the positives of the coaching group at the moment is that we never really focus too much on the negative," Roos said. "We always focus on what they [the players] could do."

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2014-02-07/roos-out-to-shed-melbournes-baggage

Looks like Roos is channelling another Super Coach Pete Carroll (New Super Bowl winning coach): http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9581925/seattle-seahawks-use-unusual-techniques-practice-espn-magazine

Dwelling on the positive is very difficult for a lot of us but get ready for Roos to do this in 2014 as he rebuilds some confidence.

To be honest I saw we were in big trouble as a club when no players stood up for Watts in his first game.

Absolutely spot on. That three man tackle with Heath Shaw and others was, for me, the defining image of our descent into rabble.

Now there is a good idea. I was rather hoping we would continue with that small chip to the back pocket and then back to the full back in the goal square and then a turnover and goal to the opposition.

It was so enjoyable to see it over and over again.

Agree Ed. Our kickout strategies have either been pathetic or incapable of being executed with the talent we had. I found it like you, one of the most frustrating parts of our game.

I've wondered for ten years how come we are the only club that can never execute this tactic at all. I mean, at all, over a number of coaches, years and players. It defies logic.

I've wondered for ten years how come we are the only club that can never execute this tactic at all. I mean, at all, over a number of coaches, years and players. It defies logic.

When in doubt, kick long to a pack along the MCC members wing! Worked every time! (Or not)

It just left me wanting to choke on my footy record!

To be honest I saw we were in big trouble as a club when no players stood up for Watts in his first game.

in all my years of footy,it never wouldve happened

our fathers and club members would have tore strips of us as players,if we let that happen to a kid.

To be honest I saw we were in big trouble as a club when no players stood up for Watts in his first game.

I love these sort of comments.

How did you feel after R17 in 2010? Did you still think we were in big trouble?

I love these sort of comments.

How did you feel after R17 in 2010? Did you still think we were in big trouble?

played in plenty of losing teams in my time

never left somebody out to dry.

first rule of footy.protect the kids at all costs,

should also add,

when your a low team on the totem pole,youve got to hang your hat on something.

we made a pact when a losing club ,never give them an easy shot.

and when the good days returned we had a forceful approach in place.

its easy to invest in those types of things when you have no chance of winning.

a matter of fact its the only thing you can invest in.

some of those young kids carried me when my legs were shot and i hid in the back pocket in later years

played in plenty of losing teams in my time

never left somebody out to dry.

first rule of footy.protect the kids at all costs,

i still shake my head in anger when i think of that moment with Jack Watts.

I will never understand why the club did that. No explanation would ever change my mind It was just so wrong.

played in plenty of losing teams in my time

never left somebody out to dry.

first rule of footy.protect the kids at all costs,

Protect your teammates at all costs. It was a pretty poor effort and showed where we were as a team that no one wanted to fly the flag that day.

I love these sort of comments.

How did you feel after R17 in 2010? Did you still think we were in big trouble?

That's the other side of the extreme coin - we were never as good as that day suggested.

Save for Goodes, that Sydney team was terrible and was run over by a team that 'turned up' on the day.

It was an outlier and time and bitter experience has proved it thus.