I'm happy to disagree and be bullish.

Hogan is going to be a superstar of the competition (and I'm not insinuating you disagree). He plays every game at 19. Of course he'll have quiet games, he did at Casey last year, but his footy smarts, aggression, strength, running ability will see him impact games from year one.

Like Tony Lockett, Hogan is a man child. I'm not expecting Hogan to be a 19 year old Lockett (79 goals), who was already a superstar having debuted at 17 and kicked 77 goals as an 18 year old, but I have NO doubt Hogan will surprise many, including Melbourne supporters who are nervous about the hype.

Cameron: 16 games, 10 disposals, 29 goals

Franklin: 20 games, 10 disposals, 21 goals

I'm pretty sure they would be the best 2 junior seasons by young forwards since 2000. Doubt the other top line forwards would be even close to that and that includes Cloke, Roughead, Josh Kennedy, Tippett, Hawkins, Riewoldt(s) - noting Nick played back early.

18 games, 25 or so goals, a bag of 4 or 5 and maybe another game where he takes 8 or 10 marks as a half forward target will be a super season from the young man.

I liked the agm footage, lots of talk about people's character etc, roos impressive but character doesn't get you class necessarily, we still need a talent injection to rise up the ladder no matter how wholesome our support staff are, Rejoice in hope, be patient in prayer

At the risk of upsetting RR

I think that looks awfully like an express train DF

Ha Ha

Yes this mob gives me way more confidence

Then jump on board OD its going to the finals!

Cameron: 16 games, 10 disposals, 29 goals

Franklin: 20 games, 10 disposals, 21 goals

I'm pretty sure they would be the best 2 junior seasons by young forwards since 2000. Doubt the other top line forwards would be even close to that and that includes Cloke, Roughead, Josh Kennedy, Tippett, Hawkins, Riewoldt(s) - noting Nick played back early.

18 games, 25 or so goals, a bag of 4 or 5 and maybe another game where he takes 8 or 10 marks as a half forward target will be a super season from the young man.

What part of happy to disagree don't you understand ?

Just listened to Peter Jackson's speech...I could listen to him all day. Just hope it all works.

What part of happy to disagree don't you understand ?

No part I was just putting a statistical case to my point of view. Do you have an estimate number of goals you are bullish about him kicking? I'm thinking 25 goals justifies the hype and is a fantastic effort yet is still cautious in terms of how many matches he actually impacts. You are keen for him to play every game and to impact matches and by that I presume you mean at least 5 or so games where he is at the pointy end of the best players. Does that mean 40 goals?

If Hogan plays10-15 games in 2014 i will be happy

He has had 2 minor knee injuries and is yet to play an AFL game. I hope he plays Round 1 after that it is a management call.

Don't want to burn him out. That is why i wished he could have played 2-3 last year. But this is year one of a long and hopefully powerful career.

I feel like we're at the start of the Brisbane Bears 94-96 period, loaded with talent but coming back from the tundra. Those teams were ridiculed for a long time and it made them pretty fierce when they got it together. I have to believe some of our players want some similar pay back.

No part I was just putting a statistical case to my point of view. Do you have an estimate number of goals you are bullish about him kicking? I'm thinking 25 goals justifies the hype and is a fantastic effort yet is still cautious in terms of how many matches he actually impacts. You are keen for him to play every game and to impact matches and by that I presume you mean at least 5 or so games where he is at the pointy end of the best players. Does that mean 40 goals?

Where have I said I want him to play "every" game ?

The way footy is played these days it's difficult to measure impact by goals. Hogan could have an 8 mark 20 possession game, be one of our best and not kick a goal.

I certainly anticipate he'll average in the top 10 for B&F votes per game, and an average of 2 goals per game is well within his reach.

I unashamedly declare him to be the best key forward I've seen arrive at the club in 40 years, which is not meant to sound disparaging to Schwarz, Neitz and to a lesser extent Lyon. And yes, I'm more than comfortable with this opinion before he's played a game. The best key forwards were often borderline stars at 19 (yes, not their first seasons) and Hogan is mentally and physically ready to make an impact. He's far more mentally and physically ready than Franklin and far more physically ready than Cameron.

Subject to conditioning and injury I'd expect Hogan to play 18-20 games.

Injuries permitting Hogan will get the third best tall defender or a medium sized player asked to play tall. He may not kick a bag on the Harry Taylors, Scott Thompsons and Corey Enrights of the comp but with Clark and Dawes in the side I doubt he will play on them. I am bullish that this young bloke willhave an immediate impact on the side and sould kick 30-40 for the season. We have seen players with less development the Jessie in other sdes do it and there no reason he cant.

I watched a replay of an 2012 interview with Sheedy on Open Mike the other day. Even though Jackson sacked him, Sheedy still thought Jackson was the best CEO he had ever worked with.

I don’t think 9 wins is out of the question.

If Roos can get us playing as a team and too his game plan and we get 20 odd games out of our talls we are not that far away. A few if’s I know but all other teams are relying a bit of luck things going their way.

I believe we are only one A+ grade mid away from the top 6 teams.

Put Cotchin in Melbourne’s team and tell me where Richmond are better than us???

I might be dreaming but its preseason and we haven’t lost a game yet and are equal top!!

I don’t think 9 wins is out of the question.

If Roos can get us playing as a team and too his game plan and we get 20 odd games out of our talls we are not that far away. A few if’s I know but all other teams are relying a bit of luck things going their way.

I believe we are only one A+ grade mid away from the top 6 teams.

Put Cotchin in Melbourne’s team and tell me where Richmond are better than us???

I might be dreaming but its preseason and we haven’t lost a game yet and are equal top!!

I often look at Richmond's list and try to weigh up the differences. Many consider them to be pushing top 6.

Cotchin and Deledio are better mids than anything we have.

They have a better explosive finisher in Martin.

They arguably have better flankers in Newman, Grigg, Houli and Morris, although none of these are world-beaters and any gap can be easily bridged.

They have a better ruck in Maric.

It's fair to say that they edge us in some areas, but it's really the midfield where they usurp us. They also have years under the same coach, so they've been building for a while. We can have a more dominant forward-line and at least equal them in the back-line, if not shade them with a competitive midfield.

The bottom line is that we need a couple of Viney, Tyson, Toumpas, Salem, Trengove to become AA quality midfielders. If it happens we'll be knocking on the door of the 8 quickly, if it doesn't we'll be middle of the road.

Both Roos and PJ said not to expect this and there will be Bumps. IMO none to subtle comment to expect some poor performances in 2014.

I think there will be some vicious bumps...

As I understand it, the MRP have outlawed bumps at least for MFC players, so lets hope that PJ and Mr Roos are wrong on that.

I often look at Richmond's list and try to weigh up the differences. Many consider them to be pushing top 6.

Cotchin and Deledio are better mids than anything we have.

They have a better explosive finisher in Martin.

They arguably have better flankers in Newman, Grigg, Houli and Morris, although none of these are world-beaters and any gap can be easily bridged.

They have a better ruck in Maric.

It's fair to say that they edge us in some areas, but it's really the midfield where they usurp us. They also have years under the same coach, so they've been building for a while. We can have a more dominant forward-line and at least equal them in the back-line, if not shade them with a competitive midfield.

The bottom line is that we need a couple of Viney, Tyson, Toumpas, Salem, Trengove to become AA quality midfielders. If it happens we'll be knocking on the door of the 8 quickly, if it doesn't we'll be middle of the road.

I reckon this is right although I wonder how critically important it is to have AA mids. I think a well drilled group of B+/A- mids can at least negate most midfields which means other advantages you have can be decisive. We have three quality talls both defensively and in attack.

Hawthorn don't have a dominant midfield and last year Mitchell played off half back and Sewell was dropped at one stage. Their midfield was not anywhere near the midfields that dominated in the mid 2000 of Brisbane or WC. Without looking at it Sydney didn't have a standout bunch of mids in the middle 2000's either.

So if Cross, Vince, Tyson and Jones can form the pointy end of our mids and are backed up by a well drilled cast of players around them we become fairly competitive. It's also important that someone like McKenzie can negate the opposition key mid as that brings them back to us.

I think our forwards and backs are as good as most teams with only Swans, Hawks, Collingwood, Freo, North and Geelong better. It's why I think we can be competitive with 10 or so teams and given we play those teams often we should win more games than most think.

I also think most people are focusing too much on individual players and not focusing enough on the impact a positive environment and effective game plan can have. Roos challenge is to eradicate the mental damage inflicted by the previous FD and if he can do that we will surprise many. It's not like we are waiting from Blease, Strauss, Tapscott, McKenzie, Evans, Grimes, Trengove, Watts, Howe, Clisby or Terlich to physically develop. They just need the environment and mind set to thrive. And we only need a handful of those players to step up and we'll see an extraordinary difference.

I also think most people are focusing too much on individual players and not focusing enough on the impact a positive environment and effective game plan can have. Roos challenge is to eradicate the mental damage inflicted by the previous FD and if he can do that we will surprise many. It's not like we are waiting from Blease, Strauss, Tapscott, McKenzie, Evans, Grimes, Trengove, Watts, Howe, Clisby or Terlich to physically develop. They just need the environment and mind set to thrive. And we only need a handful of those players to step up and we'll see an extraordinary difference.

I think you are right on this.

It will be interesting to see which players do step up this year and those that do not. A number of the players mentioned have ?? on them. And a level of doubt will surely be removed. I hope all of them step up but realistically some won't.

With all this footy talk on the AGM thread, does anyone know why there were no questions allowed on the night about the football operations part of the club?

I reckon this is right although I wonder how critically important it is to have AA mids. I think a well drilled group of B+/A- mids can at least negate most midfields which means other advantages you have can be decisive. We have three quality talls both defensively and in attack.

Hawthorn don't have a dominant midfield and last year Mitchell played off half back and Sewell was dropped at one stage. Their midfield was not anywhere near the midfields that dominated in the mid 2000 of Brisbane or WC. Without looking at it Sydney didn't have a standout bunch of mids in the middle 2000's either.

So if Cross, Vince, Tyson and Jones can form the pointy end of our mids and are backed up by a well drilled cast of players around them we become fairly competitive. It's also important that someone like McKenzie can negate the opposition key mid as that brings them back to us.

I think our forwards and backs are as good as most teams with only Swans, Hawks, Collingwood, Freo, North and Geelong better. It's why I think we can be competitive with 10 or so teams and given we play those teams often we should win more games than most think.

I also think most people are focusing too much on individual players and not focusing enough on the impact a positive environment and effective game plan can have. Roos challenge is to eradicate the mental damage inflicted by the previous FD and if he can do that we will surprise many. It's not like we are waiting from Blease, Strauss, Tapscott, McKenzie, Evans, Grimes, Trengove, Watts, Howe, Clisby or Terlich to physically develop. They just need the environment and mind set to thrive. And we only need a handful of those players to step up and we'll see an extraordinary difference.

You would have to ruin your post by bringing up McKenzie. You don't know his player sponsor, do you ?

I agree with your points. I look at most clubs and Hawthorn's lack of star power in the middle is an interesting case study. They're able to usually neutralise or win the stoppages, even without Mitchell, and once the ball gets "outside" you'd back Hawthorn to win and control it more often than not. They get tremendous run from their back half and the ball use is second to none. They also benefit from tremendous class forward of centre. They are a perfect example of how to win big games without a star mid, save for Mitchell, who, as you say, spent more time behind the ball than usual.

And when you look at Sydney and Freo, they too don't have greats of the game running around in the midfield. Fyfe, Mundy, Barlow are strong over the footy, but it's not easy to name their 4th banana, although Danyle Pearce joined them in 2013 and was very handy playing every game and averaging 20 disposals. Their strength comes from a solid midfield, great structures, discipline and unity across the ground.

Sydney is very much in the mould of Freo, but with perhaps a stronger midfield. O'Keefe, Kennedy, Jack, Hannebery, Mitchell is formidable. It provided them the luxury of McVeigh going to half back. In many ways it's difficult to know why they didn't have a better year. Jetta was nothing like the player of a couple of years ago and Goodes missed half the season. It won't take much to go right for them to be right back at the pointy end.

The common denominator for Sydney and Freo being Longmire and Lyon, who both learnt their craft under Roos. Spread, running two ways, strong at the stoppages, and controlling tempo through possession, being the hallmarks of their play.

When I look at Pendlebury, Swan and Dayne Beams, together with a power forward such as Cloke, I can't help wonder how good Collingwood would be with a great coach and a better leadership group.

Like you, I'm bullish for the future. We need a little luck with injuries, complete buy in, we need to overcome any mental fragility as quickly as possible, and for a few players to take the next step. When that happens we'll gain confidence and momentum. Momentum is one of the most powerful intangibles in sport.

That said, a couple of "stars" in the midfield and up forward wouldn't go astray. A few flags would be nice. ; )

I agree with your points. I look at most clubs and Hawthorn's lack of star power in the middle is an interesting case study. They're able to usually neutralise or win the stoppages, even without Mitchell, and once the ball gets "outside" you'd back Hawthorn to win and control it more often than not. They get tremendous run from their back half and the ball use is second to none. They also benefit from tremendous class forward of centre. They are a perfect example of how to win big games without a star mid, save for Mitchell, who, as you say, spent more time behind the ball than usual.

How to win a game without a star mid...besides that they have one in Mitchell. And a depending work horse in Sewell. And Luke Hodge. And Jordan Lewis who stepped up big time in the grand final. And one of the best running wingman in the game in Smith. The run of Brad Hill. The luxury of Shaun Burgoyne. I get that Hawthorn don't have an all conquering midfield but they must be still a top 4 unit.

How to win a game without a star mid...besides that they have one in Mitchell. And a depending work horse in Sewell. And Luke Hodge. And Jordan Lewis who stepped up big time in the grand final. And one of the best running wingman in the game in Smith. The run of Brad Hill. The luxury of Shaun Burgoyne. I get that Hawthorn don't have an all conquering midfield but they must be still a top 4 unit.

The fact they won the GF would suggest to me they have close to a top everything!

How to win a game without a star mid...besides that they have one in Mitchell. And a depending work horse in Sewell. And Luke Hodge. And Jordan Lewis who stepped up big time in the grand final. And one of the best running wingman in the game in Smith. The run of Brad Hill. The luxury of Shaun Burgoyne. I get that Hawthorn don't have an all conquering midfield but they must be still a top 4 unit.

Yes, I'm familiar with those players.

thanks.

The common denominator for Sydney and Freo being Longmire and Lyon, who both learnt their craft under Roos. Spread, running two ways, strong at the stoppages, and controlling tempo through possession, being the hallmarks of their play.

When I look at Pendlebury, Swan and Dayne Beams, together with a power forward such as Cloke, I can't help wonder how good Collingwood would be with a great coach and a better leadership group.

Yep, they only like to go one way. Pendlebury named it last year but remained one of the offenders.

How to win a game without a star mid...besides that they have one in Mitchell. And a depending work horse in Sewell. And Luke Hodge. And Jordan Lewis who stepped up big time in the grand final. And one of the best running wingman in the game in Smith. The run of Brad Hill. The luxury of Shaun Burgoyne. I get that Hawthorn don't have an all conquering midfield but they must be still a top 4 unit.

Runs a lot, not convinced by him yet but he is improving.

Yep, they only like to go one way. Pendlebury named it last year but remained one of the offenders.

Because what he was really saying was "you blokes will need to run hard defensively, because either I'll be out of position trying to create something, or I just won't."

Heard PJ on SEN this morning and he said something very interesting in that "when he and PR took their jobs at MFC it was for short term but having been in the role and amongst the AFL industry again u can change your mind"

Hopefully that boads well and means both will extend their tenure at the Dees.

We can only hope that if the team on and off the field improves it will encourage both to stay on for longer.