Training - Monday 9th December, 2013

[Cards13 9,117]

See that puppy fat fly. pfftt. Guess Nate must be fat as well then, pretty much has the same build as Trenners

Those BLOODY moustaches!!! They add 10 pounds!

[Satyriconhome 9,986]

I'm not so sure, I reckon he'd be wasted after the first 2 or 3 cones of the first session

haha

..that's gold, but probably wasted on most on here....as for Trengove, to stay on topic, he is looking in top shape, let's wait and see....

Edited December 10, 2013 by Satyriconhome

[Satyriconhome 9,986]

Also and the photograph reminded me, Clisby seems to be playing as part of the midfield group at the trainings I have watched, whether it is just making up the numbers, or that is the plan...

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Has Clisby played in the midfield previously in his career?

[Elusive Tunbridge 795]

From what I've seen of Clisby, he's good at finding space and time, good at making decisions, but not especially quick. IMO, HBF is his natural position, but the club may be interested in trying him out as an outside mid.

[rpfc 27,535]

Clisby also averages 13.9 Uncontested Possessions in the AFL which is ahead of Cross (13.8), Vince (13.5), Matt Jones (13.3), Terlich (12.7), and Nathan Jones (12.3).

That tells me he works hard to spread and provide options.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Clisby also averages 13.9 Uncontested Possessions in the AFL which is ahead of Cross (13.8), Vince (13.5), Matt Jones (13.3), Terlich (12.7), and Nathan Jones (12.3).

That tells me he works hard to spread and provide options.

That tells me that he has more uncontested possessions than most inside mids that we've got, which I would expect.

Also tells me that he's doing what he should be doing for an outside mid/half back flanker.

The only one in that list you could compare him to would be Terlich. If Jones, Cross and Vince had more uncontested possessions than Clisby it would be a worry.

To be honest, I'm not sold on Mitch. Nothing personal, just am far from having him in my best 22. Might make it, hope he does, but I'm doubtful at this stage.

[rpfc 27,535]

That tells me that he has more uncontested possessions than most inside mids that we've got, which I would expect.

Also tells me that he's doing what he should be doing for an outside mid/half back flanker.

The only one in that list you could compare him to would be Terlich. If Jones, Cross and Vince had more uncontested possessions than Clisby it would be a worry.

To be honest, I'm not sold on Mitch. Nothing personal, just am far from having him in my best 22. Might make it, hope he does, but I'm doubtful at this stage.

I wasn't giving a random set of mids - I was giving the Top 6 Uncontested Possession winners at the club.

And HBF is the easiest position in the world to play but that doesn't mean the soft kicks are just lined up for you - you have to work. Lynden Dunn - Lands latest HBF crush - averaged 8.6 UPs last year (=324th in the league).

If Clisby was 'just doing what a HBFer should be doing' he was doing it well, and better than anyone else.

And, finally, if Vince and Jones managed 14+ UPs next year we would be a far better team. It would mean that Vince is doing what we got him for, and that others are helping Nathan to get the ball in the first place so that he can spread himself and get the footy in space.

[The Chazz 4,077]

I wasn't giving a random set of mids - I was giving the Top 6 Uncontested Possession winners at the club.

And HBF is the easiest position in the world to play but that doesn't mean the soft kicks are just lined up for you - you have to work. Lynden Dunn - Lands latest HBF crush - averaged 8.6 UPs last year (=324th in the league).

If Clisby was 'just doing what a HBFer should be doing' he was doing it well, and better than anyone else.

And, finally, if Vince and Jones managed 14+ UPs next year we would be a far better team. It would mean that Vince is doing what we got him for, and that others are helping Nathan to get the ball in the first place so that he can spread himself and get the footy in space.

As I said, the only one I'd be comparing him to would be Terlich. Clisby, in his 8 games, has a better uncontested possession average than Terlich, so that COULD tell us that he runs and spreads more.

FWIW, I couldn't really give a toss about our stats from the past 5 years. They are pitiful, most areas are not AFL standard, and I don't believe it gives us a true indication on individual's ability. If I did want to entertain any stat at present, it'd be turnovers per game, inside defensive 30's (not 50's), and whatever the stat is that tells us our halfback lines score involvement (ie was Clisby/Terlich/Dunn involved in a passage of play that directly resulted in a score for us), as well as the oppositions equivilent (telling us which of our half forwards are working hard).

Howe had good stats in his first season, the opposition played tighter on him in 2013 and his effectiveness dropped. I have no doubt the same will happen to Clisby (if he is playing in the seniors), so it'll be interesting to see how he pushes through that. I rest my judgement until such time passes.

[rpfc 27,535]

FWIW, I couldn't really give a toss about our stats from the past 5 years.

That's all you had to say.

[The Chazz 4,077]

That's all you had to say.

Let me know when you've made your point then.

[olisik 4,060]

Let me know when you've made your point then.

Ermm...was kinda obvious that it already has been made....

[The Chazz 4,077]

Ermm...was kinda obvious that it already has been made....

Gysberts had great stats in his career Oli.

Edited December 11, 2013 by billy2803

[rpfc 27,535]

Gysberts had great stats in his career Oli.

lol

Well argued.

Quit while you're behind, Billy.

[The Chazz 4,077]

lol

Well argued.

Quit while you're behind, Billy.

That's just you isn't it RP, has to be a winner and loser in every discussion/disagreement.

Maybe stop being the latter and people will treat you more as the former.

[rpfc 27,535]

That's just you isn't it RP, has to be a winner and loser in every discussion/disagreement.

Maybe stop being the latter and people will treat you more as the former.

I made a benign point about the top Uncontested Possession winners at the club and that the player in question (Clisby) was at the top.

What followed was derailed by you - if you feel like you lost whatever that was that is not my concern.

My advice to quit was not for your pursuit of 'winning an argument' - more 'constructing an argument.'

Your posts following my point contained rejections of all stats related to the MFC over the past 5 years, the mention of Gysberts as some sort of proof of this, and your opinion that I didn't have a point.

If I didn't have a point, what is your problem?

[olisik 4,060]

How do the tackle stats look Gys vs Clisby

[nutbean 8,837]

That tells me that he has more uncontested possessions than most inside mids that we've got, which I would expect.

Also tells me that he's doing what he should be doing for an outside mid/half back flanker.

The only one in that list you could compare him to would be Terlich. If Jones, Cross and Vince had more uncontested possessions than Clisby it would be a worry.

To be honest, I'm not sold on Mitch. Nothing personal, just am far from having him in my best 22. Might make it, hope he does, but I'm doubtful at this stage.

One of the (many) knocks on Neeld is whilst we acknowledge that all our stats were horrible compared to other teams, I read that our contested to uncontested ball ratio was out of whack - we were not getting enough of either but for the amount of contested ball we got we did not nearly get enough uncontested.

This means that we had too many going to the contest and if we did manage to get it we either had no one spreading ( or we just turned it over).

I think that is the point that RPFC was making with Clisby - that he showed he is willing to work hard and spread. I also agree that Jones doesn't get enough easy ball as he should be getting.

[The Chazz 4,077]

How do the tackle stats look Gys vs Clisby

Gysberts avg 3.79 per game

Clisby avg 2.25 per game

Clisby avg 13.88 uncontested possessions per game

Cale Morton avg 14.54 uncontested possessions per game

The stats I'm using suggest Nathan Jones averages 13.57 UCP per game, Daniel Cross at 14.65 and Bernie Vince 13.98.

That's (part of) my point, stats can tell some of the story. Using stats to support an opinion on an 8 game player (in a crap team) isn't something that I would do, but RP is entitled to do what he likes.

[Deeoldfart 7,785]

After a holiday in Tassie, I broke my journey from Devonport to Canberra to have a look at training on Monday morning. I won't provide a comprehensive run-down, but a few specific points struck me as significant and probably worth sharing:

• the weather was wet and miserable, and I thought the overall skill level was reasonable in the circumstances ........ but of course, training is a long, long way from match day, but at the same time, December is also a fair way from March.
• I was super impressed by the intensity of the session. Far greater than anything I have seen on my few visits to training under Bailey or Neeld. Given that it's still 2013, this was a highlight for me.
• the coaches were heavily involved in all drills, yelling instructions and encouragement and having quiet one-on-one chats to players to make specific points. For example, one of the drills involved clearing the ball from deep defense with the designated kicker being required to kick the ball to a team mate and then continue running at full steam to provide a transitional option and / or a goal kicking option at deep forward. The coaches could clearly be heard yelling things like "keep running" or "push harder" or "stay involved" or "great work" followed by the players name. I loved this drill and keenly look forward to seeing how it translates on match days.
• Watts trained with the mids and impressed. In one centre clearance drill in particular, he regularly found space in a crowded setup, and delivered the ball beautifully by hand and foot. I found this interesting because I had expected him to be the outside receiver rather than in the thick of it in a drill of this type.
• Despite the hard work, intensity and miserable conditions, the players enjoyed themselves. For example in one arm-wrestling / grappling type drill the players were pitted against someone of similar size and build in what I assume was some sort of 'show of strength'. The banter between the players was clearly audible as each tried to gain the upper hand. At one stage Rawlings was pitted against Garland and he managed to get a hand free and give Garlo a solid clip over the ear. Expletives followed but it was all in good spirit.