Caro also said that Neil Craig should have answered the journos questions about Bates and that he was hiding behind the enquiry - of course insinuation made. All legal advice would be to say nothing. Hird came out and said he had nothing to do with Danks and then had to change his statement. I am happy for Neeld and Craig to say nothing at the moment. Can't wait for her aticle if Richmond are involved.

Do you have a link where Hird made the claim that he had nothing to do with Danks?

Given Hird has taken public responsibility for the program at Essendon I don't think he would claim he had nothing to do with Danks who was an employee at the Club.

I thought Hird was protesting his innocence to claims made about him.

I don't think there are any allegations that "we doped and they knew about it". Even Wilson on Footy Classified last night said there was no evidence or suggestions that MFC was involved with performance-enhancing drugs. The charges are that we "misled" Vlad and made him splutter his morning coffee when he was "blindsided" by the text messages read out on the ABC 7.30 the night before. It seems to me that if we've got nothing to hide, our best interests are served by being very open and transparent, and not giving more fuel to the Melbourne-haters amongst the journos.

As supporters who have been through so much in our love for this club, we could do with some categoric assurances. Right now, the credibility of the MFC administration is very low, and it would help to know they aren't hiding more stuff that will inevitably come out and could devastate MFC even more.

I think you need to get beyond the "Melboune haters" in regard to journalist. MFC have provided good reason for serious questions to be asked about the Club.

As you point the issue here is not doping ( that depends on the ASADA findings). The issue here is governance, transparency and integrity. And it's the integrity issue that most at stake at the moment until it is established that Bates acted alone without any awareness of the senior colleagues.

When asked on the weekend whether they could confirm their previous statements to Club officials and AFL that Bates had not informed them and they did not know about the Danks association Neeld and Craig refused to answer citing an investigation. If they had nothing to hide then why didn't they confirm.

Despite being at the centre of a controversy Hird was able to categorically claim his innocence. No reason the others couldn't......or is there?

If it is shown that Bates was in fact a lone wolf and that others above knew then the Club reputation and competency is further in tatters. I hope this is not the case. It's bad enough that no one was aware of a 5 month dealing with a sports scientist who was rejected for a job.

Sorry, but if Bates was acting as a "lone wolf" at the club then by definition others above would not have known.

If they knew, then they were already implicated and Bates was not acting on his own.

To date, there is no evidence of this whatsoever.

I think you need to get beyond the "Melboune haters" in regard to journalist. MFC have provided good reason for serious questions to be asked about the Club.

As you point the issue here is not doping ( that depends on the ASADA findings). The issue here is governance, transparency and integrity. And it's the integrity issue that most at stake at the moment until it is established that Bates acted alone without any awareness of the senior colleagues.

The law treats people the other way around. I thought you were innocent until proven guilty but it seems that in the world of corporate governance these days you are deemed guilty by speculation.

This explains Buddy's dodgy 'hamstrings'

This explains Buddy's dodgy 'hamstrings'

Swan took a trip for a few weeks to Arizona mid season.

just a small question. what happens IF 18 clubs coaches doctors and FDs all admit to using legal but yet declared performance enhancing juice??????

by the way mark robbo and carO are about as vague as a yabbie in a bucket of chit

How dare he issue public comments of support for Melbourne? What was he thinking?

Given the AFL will be conducting its 2nd enquiry into aspects of conduct of the MFC do you think he might be a little more circumspect in the future?

He can say what he likes when he's retired/pensioned off or sacked.

I think in the future the AFL will follow the line of professional boxing and introduce random blood and urine tests.

Which is olympic style testing.

This would make it much hard for cheats to beat the system.

Yep, totally agree on the random tests.

Armstrong managed to avoid sitting most of the 'random' tests (I think over his career he was supposed to sit around 500 but the actual figure was in the low 100's) - but I think the issue with that was that it was a tight night community and also tests had to be conducted over the world.

At least with the AFL there are alot more players and that because teams come down early to play in Vic if they are a non-Vic team there is time to test them before and after.

I said before the I believe that the AFL would be better served by an independent panel of Doctors who rotate throughout the clubs on a roster system. Maybe rotating a Doctor every year or every two years. The doctors are not answerable to the clubs and report back to the AFL . In all medical matters the Doctors have the final say and all conditioning and fitness staff report directly to the Doctor.

And I have said nothing on the legal advice for either person. If they have nothing to hide then they can confirm.

The latter sentence proves the first sentence wrong.

As you are arguing right now - statements are important when given to the AFL - sometimes you are adamant about something that is not entirely the case.

Neeld and Craig do not have to comply with Caro's inquisition. You do realise that it is with the media they are not co-operating, not the AFL?

Even with my strong bias, it's awfully hard to imagine that Bates was a lone wolf in this. I'm dreading what more might be lurking under the MFC carpet...

Me too,

I find very difficult to believe that Bates was a lone wolf.

IMO the only reason he is suspended is that he is the only one that there is concrete proof at this stage that he was dealing with Danks.

I will be amazed if this does not end up as another tanking saga with the enevidable out come.

Latest offering from The Age:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/wada-declares-obesity-drug-illegal-20130423-2ibhh.html

WADA declares obesity drug illegal

A yet-to-be-approved for human use anti-obesity drug allegedly injected into AFL and NRL players by sports scientist Steven Dank has been classified a prohibited substance by the World Anti Doping Authority.

In a notification released overnight, WADA said the drug, AOD-9604, fell under the category of substances that are prohibited because they have "no current approval by any governmental regulatory health authority for human therapeutic use".

WADA ruled in 2012 that the use of unapproved substances fell under its prohibited category. This raises the prospect that footballers injected with AOD-9604 last year may have unwittingly breached anti-doping rules.

WADA's overnight notification on the status of AOD-9604 puts to rest speculation about the uncertain status of the substance in terms of its compliance with anti-doping rules.

Just about cooks the goose of all players who have been discovered to have used AOD-9604.

Latest offering from The Age:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/wada-declares-obesity-drug-illegal-20130423-2ibhh.html

WADA declares obesity drug illegal

A yet-to-be-approved for human use anti-obesity drug allegedly injected into AFL and NRL players by sports scientist Steven Dank has been classified a prohibited substance by the World Anti Doping Authority.

In a notification released overnight, WADA said the drug, AOD-9604, fell under the category of substances that are prohibited because they have "no current approval by any governmental regulatory health authority for human therapeutic use".

WADA ruled in 2012 that the use of unapproved substances fell under its prohibited category. This raises the prospect that footballers injected with AOD-9604 last year may have unwittingly breached anti-doping rules.

WADA's overnight notification on the status of AOD-9604 puts to rest speculation about the uncertain status of the substance in terms of its compliance with anti-doping rules.

Just about cooks the goose of all players who have been discovered to have used AOD-9604.

Wasn't Trengove linked through text messages to this?

I believe that was the AOD Bates and Dank were discussing.

Also The Age (Richard Baker & Nick McKenzie who, apart from the fact they're journo's, seem to have credibility) are now reporting:

Controversial biochemist Shane Charter claims he assisted more than 30 AFL players from six different clubs in using performance enhancing drugs.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/wada-declares-obesity-drug-illegal-20130423-2ibhh.html

So, which are the 6 clubs?

And in Sam Lane's report of the taped meeting between that other club ("not Melbourne or Essendon"):

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-club-officials-taped-on-drug-use-20130422-2iaqi.html

According to a report on the ABC's Four Corners, the club officials - who were not from Essendon or Melbourne - were told last year that growth hormone was expensive but they were guaranteed it was "child's play" to avoid testing positive to the substance.

The officials were not identified in the report, but in a re-enactment of the recorded discussion, one said of growth hormones: "I keep hearing lots of players are using it."

Has there been any report of the AFL response to this astonishing claim? Which is this "other" club? Is the AFL investigating them? The conversation is taped and the ABC have it. Hardly likely to vanish under the carpet. Or is any investigation by Vlad being conducted in secret, and why?

seems abc are better at investigating than asada

maybe asada should sub-contract them or just outsource the whole shebang?

What is the next step for those boys who were given this AOD by Dank?

Is the cream banned?

Do they co-operate?

Would it matter?

I think they need to get lawyered up.

What is the next step for those boys who were given this AOD by Dank?

Is the cream banned?

Do they co-operate?

Would it matter?

I think they need to get lawyered up.

More of a minefeild with the Essendon players: because they signed a bunch of crap and didnt know what they were given it raises up the option for them to sue Dank and the club for tresspass against their person

Neil Craig is famous for introducing colostrum to the Crows in 1997. He was reputed to be a savvy and enthusiastic proponent of sports science. If he did not know about Bates and Dank, why? If anyone is going to know about the application of out-there bio-chem substances, it is Neil Craig.

What is the next step for those boys who were given this AOD by Dank?

Is the cream banned?

Do they co-operate?

Would it matter?

I think they need to get lawyered up.

The quicker these questions are answered, the better.

One would suspect that the ABC have more exposés up their sleeve, and it seems that the bit they've already drip-fed about MFC is low on the richter scale compared with what they have on the "other" AFL club whose conversation with the compunding pharmacist was taped and re-enacted by them last night.

How long will Vlad maintain his silence on the latest developments?

given that trengove was alleged to have used the AOD CREAM

and the club said that nothing the players were alleged to have used in the 730 report were illegal, you have to assume that the AOD CREAM is ok....

assumption being the brother of all fark ups

There is nothing in the taped conversations unless it reflects intent to act or can be tied to actions. I would think the club if known will still get a home visit from ASADA.

I would think Vlad will allow ASADA and the AFL investigations to take their toll. He may not tune into the 7.30 report for awhile.

Neil Craig is famous for introducing colostrum to the Crows in 1997. He was reputed to be a savvy and enthusiastic proponent of sports science. If he did not know about Bates and Dank, why? If anyone is going to know about the application of out-there bio-chem substances, it is Neil Craig.

And Leigh Matthews caffeine

given that trengove was alleged to have used the AOD CREAM

and the club said that nothing the players were alleged to have used in the 730 report were illegal, you have to assume that the AOD CREAM is ok....

assumption being the brother of all fark ups

wasn't there a claim that bate had got approval from asada for his treatments (incl aod cream if used)?

if this is true and now wada is saying aod is "banned" because it is not approved for human use then asada would look to be incompetent

Neil Craig is famous for introducing colostrum to the Crows in 1997. He was reputed to be a savvy and enthusiastic proponent of sports science. If he did not know about Bates and Dank, why? If anyone is going to know about the application of out-there bio-chem substances, it is Neil Craig.

I would reckon their mothers should get the credit for this.