Couldn't agree more. Why would the AFL give us another 2 top 5 picks when we have been so absolutely awful in developing our multitude of top 20s for the last decade or more?

Fortunately PJ does seem to know what he is doing and where he is headed culture-wise: whether the club will let him do what is needed is of course another story.

Remember what Geelong and Sydney have done with so few high picks - makes me weep.

When the AFL commission sits down at the end of the season to look at possible compensation for the MFC train wreck I would like them to look at the bigger picture of equalisation in the competition. The expansion clubs have gone past us already and they still have massive added advantages coming over the next few years thanks to extra first round picks banked from the 17 year old mini drafts and exclusive access to local zones. We have a good case for extra help, perhaps in the form of a mini draft access to 17 year olds that we would be required to on trade for mature players or draft picks. Is this fair, do we deserve this? Maybe not but if the AFL want a more competitive draw they need to look at more than just the odd priority pick here and there. The AFL is currently handing out advantages to clubs like Sydney based on what? And let us remember that free agency is in general, an advantage to the clubs that are in the premiership window so the inequalities will get bigger over time.

Hopefully the recent AFL equalisation junket to the US has come back with some enlightened ideas on how to give the lower clubs a leg up.

mono, it is possible that our picks were/are no effen good??

I agree that this is a huge possibility, i mean guys with no guts have no guts regardless of who coaches them, Work ethic is something that should just come naturally, it seems we go for more talented kids that aren't willing to work hard enough to exploit their talent, or the environment doesn't promote working that hard,

who knows?

I agree that this is a huge possibility, i mean guys with no guts have no guts regardless of who coaches them, Work ethic is something that should just come naturally, it seems we go for more talented kids that aren't willing to work hard enough to exploit their talent, or the environment doesn't promote working that hard,

who knows?

I reckon that none of our draft picks have ever hit the ground running, displaying a combative zest and love for the contest....except for Jack Viney.

Every time I watch this kid play, I nearly cry at how hard he goes at the contest and at the ball. Curse you Todd, haven't you got any more bloody kids??

I reckon that none of our draft picks have ever hit the ground running, displaying a combative zest and love for the contest....except for Jack Viney.

Every time I watch this kid play, I nearly cry at how hard he goes at the contest and at the ball. Curse you Todd, haven't you got any more bloody kids??

He does have one more son i believe, hopefully we draft Crouch and Dunstan this year and we see about of fight

Wooden spoon possible

Not only possible; but probable, and appropriate for what is very clearly the worst team in many years.

Sad fact but true.

I agree that this is a huge possibility, i mean guys with no guts have no guts regardless of who coaches them, Work ethic is something that should just come naturally, it seems we go for more talented kids that aren't willing to work hard enough to exploit their talent, or the environment doesn't promote working that hard,

who knows?

There is a lot of talk here about our failure to develop our kids and I agree we have not been good at it but I still believe first round picks if you pick the right personalities should have a high level of skills (a given in the first round), be self motivated, confident in their ability and be able to organise their own "development". I think we have just picked too many kids who don't like the physical side of the game. The move from under age to adult can be a big step if you don't have a bit of mongrel aggression in your personality and we have avoided them like the plague, let us be honest. I agree you can't coach guts, you tend to be silly enough to have no fear or you are too sensible to ever un backwards into a pack. We seem to have drafted a large number of sensible people in recent years!

There is a lot of talk here about our failure to develop our kids and I agree we have not been good at it but I still believe first round picks if you pick the right personalities should have a high level of skills (a given in the first round), be self motivated, confident in their ability and be able to organise their own "development". I think we have just picked too many kids who don't like the physical side of the game. The move from under age to adult can be a big step if you don't have a bit of mongrel aggression in your personality and we have avoided them like the plague, let us be honest. I agree you can't coach guts, you tend to be silly enough to have no fear or you are too sensible to ever un backwards into a pack. We seem to have drafted a large number of sensible people in recent years!

It seems we are more interested in drafting good prospects rather than good footballers if that makes sense, i mean of our last 10 picks maybe 2 were actually ready to go, Jack Viney and Jesse Hogan

It seems we are more interested in drafting good prospects rather than good footballers if that makes sense, i mean of our last 10 picks maybe 2 were actually ready to go, Jack Viney and Jesse Hogan

Let's take it easy on JH and see how he goes next year before we start the hype. I am hopeful but we have been here before.

Let's take it easy on JH and see how he goes next year before we start the hype. I am hopeful but we have been here before.

Oh yeah i didn't mean it like that, i think we should have 0 expectations on the young man next year, i'd hope he'd get a decent chance in the seniors but not be overdone.

Its a mute point but it is what it is

You don't hear too many "mute" points.

Wooden spoon possible

Not only possible; but probable, and appropriate for what is very clearly the worst team in many years.

Sad fact but true.

Not possible if GWS want pick 1.... if they want to win games, then it is possible but unlikely. I went thru the ladder predictor & could not see a way that pick 1 would come to us.

I reckon that none of our draft picks have ever hit the ground running, displaying a combative zest and love for the contest....except for Jack Viney.

Every time I watch this kid play, I nearly cry at how hard he goes at the contest and at the ball. Curse you Todd, haven't you got any more bloody kids??

Short memory JR but understandable and forgiven given our performances from 2011, I remember most of us were very happy with the performances of Scully & Trengove in 2010, just goes to show how far back we have gone and how much the much talked about on field leadership and support provided to our younger players and the quick removal of it has caused us our current problems

At lest the MFC would win something in 2013

At lest the MFC would win something in 2013

Exactly, and Jeremy howe will probably win make of the year again, bit surprised Jack viney hasn't been given a rising star nomination, thought he has played some very alright games so far.

Wooden spoon possible

Not only possible; but probable, and appropriate for what is very clearly the worst team in many years.

Sad fact but true.

Probable? It's not probable at all.

In order for it to happen, GWS needs to win another game. They won't start favourite in any of them. They are no chance against Fremantle in Perth, I'd argue they're no chance against Brisbane in Brisbane, and on current form Richmond will maul them. The only game they might win is the final one against Gold Coast, but Gold Coast will clearly start favourite in that game given it's on the Gold Coast and GC has been way, way better than GWS this year.

Some people on here are taking the one win GWS has had over Melbourne, the worst side in the competition not called GWS, and forgotten how bad GWS had been all year.

Some people on here are taking the one win GWS has had over Melbourne, the worst side in the competition not called GWS, and forgotten how bad GWS had been all year.

It's been demonstrated on this forum time and time again to the point where I reckon it's almost scientifically accepted: footy supporters can only remember the last week of footy that was played. GWS are rubbish and will not win another game. They beat us because we're just as rubbish, and their peak in form coincided with our trough. As you said, they're most likely going to be absolutely spanked in their run home.

It's been demonstrated on this forum time and time again to the point where I reckon it's almost scientifically accepted: footy supporters can only remember the last week of footy that was played. GWS are rubbish and will not win another game. They beat us because we're just as rubbish, and their peak in form coincided with our trough. As you said, they're most likely going to be absolutely spanked in their run home.

well.... we'd better work harder on getting that number 1 draft pick.... Tanking for 7 years and counting... Go dees!!

They beat us because we're just as rubbish, and their peak in form coincided with our trough.

It gives me chills to think of our trough. Double chills in fact. One lot of chills for the thought that that game represented our nadir. A greater chill to think that perhaps it didn't

Probable? It's not probable at all.

In order for it to happen, GWS needs to win another game. They won't start favourite in any of them. They are no chance against Fremantle in Perth, I'd argue they're no chance against Brisbane in Brisbane, and on current form Richmond will maul them. The only game they might win is the final one against Gold Coast, but Gold Coast will clearly start favourite in that game given it's on the Gold Coast and GC has been way, way better than GWS this year.

Some people on here are taking the one win GWS has had over Melbourne, the worst side in the competition not called GWS, and forgotten how bad GWS had been all year.

Tites, I'd give them a fair chance agains Brizzy, they've been pretty good against both Collingwood and Essendon.

Tites, I'd give them a fair chance agains Brizzy, they've been pretty good against both Collingwood and Essendon.

Way better than us.

Their overall losing margin is slightly better than us too.

The entire Football world knows who the worst team in the competition is in 2013.

It will seem a strange quirk if we finish second last.

It will seem a strange quirk if we finish second last.

And somewhat symbolic of our last few years. Even when we are the worst side we can't manage to get the number one pick

Way better than us.

Their overall losing margin is slightly better than us too.

The entire Football world knows who the worst team in the competition is in 2013.

It will seem a strange quirk if we finish second last.

I'd rate us even with GWS for worst in the comp. With Frawley and Dawes, I'd still back us to beat them at the G, just.

They've certainly hit a little purple patch, and the result on the weekend was expected, but Brisbane at home should account for them fairly comfortably and I'd be surprised if they finished above us given their run home.

Cameron Ling believes we are the team most likely to race up the ladder like Port Adelaide have this year, he also said we have a very exciting young list and thinks we will be a much Much better side as soon as next year if we get the right coach, stating that Choco, Roos and Craig could all deliver that sort of belief.

Cameron Ling believes we are the team most likely to race up the ladder like Port Adelaide have this year, he also said we have a very exciting young list and thinks we will be a much Much better side as soon as next year if we get the right coach, stating that Choco, Roos and Craig could all deliver that sort of belief.

Voss and Malthouse said similar in recent years.

Nett result

Equal last

Talk is cheap!

Voss and Malthouse said similar in recent years.

Nett result

Equal last

Talk is cheap!

Yeah i agree with that, but then again we have not had a really good coach, probably haven't even had an AFL standard coach for a full season.