Fitness probably not helped rue to missing 12mths with knee reco. Though Spencer seemed to punish himself more on the bike when out

Jamar is worth little on the table but quite a bit to us. He provides good leadership, games experience and most importantly experience for Gawn and Fitz to wax off.

He should be retained for the duration of his contract and he is still a good contributor on field.

You were making some good points up until that last bit....

I'm a big fan of Gawny but he has a long way to go (like many of you mentioned). On Sunday I thought by half way through the second term he looked exhausted. Struggling to jump and reading the ball poorly. We need the experience of Jamar there to guide these young guys through. Remember only 3 years ago Jamar was consider one of the better rucks in the AFL and even now will consistently win contests. He lacks around the ground but he does attempt to give first use to our mids (which as we know doesn't often happen). He is a great mentor to the likes of Gawn, Spencer and Fitzpatrick and I'm sure his influence around the club is invaluable.

You may be right about his influence around the club, and with the young ruckmen. He is a good tap ruckman, or at least provides a negating influence at the ruck. He is however effectively non existent in general play. The stats are unarguable in this respect, and as such is a huge liability, considering the influence of Gawn and Spencer in general play. The sums just don't add up when considering keeping Jamar as a player. His worth is negligible.

Jamar is the perfect back up, but he might offer someone like GWS or Gold coast more value.

If we could trade him for a decent young midfielder who wants to come home we should do it.

Fitness probably not helped rue to missing 12mths with knee reco. Though Spencer seemed to punish himself more on the bike when out

The interesting thing is against Carlton Spencer looked shot by the end of the game. Then when he played a few weeks later against St Kilda he looked good. Same for Gawn, was shot against the Bulldogs (although it was a wet night with lots of stoppages) and then against Sydney seemed to get through the game - although he and Fitzy were paced a bit more I think.

But there's fitness and there's match fitness at AFL level and they are different things. Our players already under Craig are running smarter not harder but they need to run hard as well.

Jamar is the perfect back up, but he might offer someone like GWS or Gold coast more value.

If we could trade him for a decent young midfielder who wants to come home we should do it.

Taylor Adams, GWS.

Jamar and late second round pick to GWS, Adams to MFC.

Gawn has had two knee re-constructions and by his own admission - couldn't run out the game against the Dogs.

Spencer has yet to cement himself as an AFL standard ruckman.

Fitzpatrick does not look like being capable of first ruck and I don't believe will be near making the best 22 once Hogan and Clark are fit and available.

Gawn should not have to be first ruck in 2014.

Nor should he be relied upon to be that.

Spencer and Jamar should still be fighting it out for that in 2014.

I just don't see how trading Jamar for not much, because that is what you will get, is going to make us better in 2014.

And if Jamar is on big money as I am led to believe he is, we would have to contribute to his salary

A number of players have come to life since Craig has taken over. I'd give Jamar the opportunity to do the same before listing him in the classifieds.

Gawn has had two knee re-constructions and by his own admission - couldn't run out the game against the Dogs.

Spencer has yet to cement himself as an AFL standard ruckman.

Fitzpatrick does not look like being capable of first ruck and I don't believe will be near making the best 22 once Hogan and Clark are fit and available.

Gawn should not have to be first ruck in 2014.

Nor should he be relied upon to be that.

Spencer and Jamar should still be fighting it out for that in 2014.

I just don't see how trading Jamar for not much, because that is what you will get, is going to make us better in 2014.

This ^

A number of players have come to life since Craig has taken over. I'd give Jamar the opportunity to do the same before listing him in the classifieds.

and this ^

In today's HS states he is still a fair way off re-signing

In today's HS states he is still a fair way off re-signing

Does he say why? Have a link by any chance, can't find it online so far.

Always knew he'd wait a bit so he could get some form behind him, but that seems a strange thing to say.

Would be VERY surprised if he didn't re-sign given his standing around the club and how much patience we've given him with injuries.

I hope he stays. It would be a shame to lose him. I reckon he hasnt been signed up yet because they want to sign Sylvia and Watts first. Also would they wait until the new coach came in. It would be a shame to see him go after all the support and patience we have given him.

Also on another note did anyone else read on the back page of the sports section of the H/sun that they mentioned the famous blazers and how they havent been since Schwab left. Mentioned some people at the club didnt like wearing it. Said they will look at the launch next year to see if they make a comeback. I don't think so

Max Gawn is absolutely essential to our future. An effective ruckman who can take a mark up forward and also works hard to offer leads in the midfield, and can even play ok and lay tackles in the wet!

With all respect, Jamar is not performing at the same level and it would be a disaster if retaining him cost us Gawn's signature. I'd basically roll the hypothetical 'what Jamar would have been offered next year' into Gawn's contract offer.

Not to mention, he's also a charismatic and visible player with marketing value. The guy is needed at every level.

Fitzpatrick and Clarke are back-ups, and recruit a speculative/mature-age ruckman or two in the draft, or retain Spencer if you have belief in him.

Max Gawn is absolutely essential to our future. An effective ruckman who can take a mark up forward and also works hard to offer leads in the midfield, and can even play ok and lay tackles in the wet!

With all respect, Jamar is not performing at the same level and it would be a disaster if retaining him cost us Gawn's signature. I'd basically roll the hypothetical 'what Jamar would have been offered next year' into Gawn's contract offer.

Not to mention, he's also a charismatic and visible player with marketing value. The guy is needed at every level.

Fitzpatrick and Clarke are back-ups, and recruit a speculative/mature-age ruckman or two in the draft, or retain Spencer if you have belief in him.

Happy if he stays but I really don't rate the influence of ruckman on a game. I would gladly trade him to secure a young quality mid and top up with a mature ruck for need. Gawn for Adams would be a fair trade for both parties.

Happy if he stays but I really don't rate the influence of ruckman on a game. I would gladly trade him to secure a young quality mid and top up with a mature ruck for need. Gawn for Adams would be a fair trade for both parties.

Jamar for Adams would be MUCH better. Jamar gives us nothing around the ground, Gawn does.

Jamar for Adams would be MUCH better. Jamar gives us nothing around the ground, Gawn does.

I agree but if you were GWS would you seriously do that trade?

I agree but if you were GWS would you seriously do that trade?

Jamar plus a second round pick for Adams. GWS are going hard for senior players, especially big men. Could happen.

Jamar plus a second round pick for Adams. GWS are going hard for senior players, especially big men. Could happen.

No it couldn't. Jamar would only have currency for a team on the cusp of the top 4 and requiring depth in the ruck. EG Collingwood

No it couldn't. Jamar would only have currency for a team on the cusp of the top 4 and requiring depth in the ruck. EG Collingwood

GWS have made it crystal clear they are going after senior players. It could very well happen. Here's some proof for you:

"The Giants made unsuccessful bids for Carlton's Robert Warnock and Melbourne's Mark Jamar last year but the pair are set to come under consideration again despite signing three-year contracts in 2012."

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/giants-shopping-for-a-top-ruckman-20130417-2i09z.html

Jamar for Adams would be MUCH better. Jamar gives us nothing around the ground, Gawn does.

I am with you brother.

Jamar plus a second round pick for Adams. GWS are going hard for senior players, especially big men. Could happen.

Second round pick will be very high (20). That'll be the bigger draw for GWS then Jamar.

Think other clubs can do better though.

A number of players have come to life since Craig has taken over. I'd give Jamar the opportunity to do the same before listing him in the classifieds.

Like Jamar has only had 3 senior coaches to become a top line ruck and has had one good year out of 10. Should have been listed 3 years ago when he had more currency.

Jamar for Adams would be MUCH better. Jamar gives us nothing around the ground, Gawn does.

Yes, yes, yes.

GWS have made it crystal clear they are going after senior players. It could very well happen. Here's some proof for you:

"The Giants made unsuccessful bids for Carlton's Robert Warnock and Melbourne's Mark Jamar last year but the pair are set to come under consideration again despite signing three-year contracts in 2012."

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/giants-shopping-for-a-top-ruckman-20130417-2i09z.html

Absolutely agree. I'd be for that trade with Adams, even if we also gave our 3rd round pick, which would be a late 2nd rounder for some other clubs. About pick 30 might do the trick. A trade here or there could get us that pick.

Jamar + pick 30 for Adams

GWS have made it crystal clear they are going after senior players. It could very well happen. Here's some proof for you:

"The Giants made unsuccessful bids for Carlton's Robert Warnock and Melbourne's Mark Jamar last year but the pair are set to come under consideration again despite signing three-year contracts in 2012."

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/giants-shopping-for-a-top-ruckman-20130417-2i09z.html

Once again I'd like to thank GWS for screwing us over and making us give Jamar a 3rd year that was totally not necessary.