I'd be willing to bet we wont be top 4 within 2 years. It's very hard to make top 4 these days from outside the 8 the year previous and we aren't close to making the 8 next year.

There's no need to panic about where Hogan is yet. At least wait until this time next year when he's got a year left on his deal but he also has played some AFL on the G under Paul Roos. At that time I think his manager and he will be much more willing to renegotiate a contract extension. They just don't have any negotiating power off VFL performances with 2 years remaining on the deal.

The great hope for us is the Freo either win the flag next year or Pav breaks down and retires and they have to replace him next year whilst Hogan still has a year to run on his contract. West Coast are nicely set with Kennedy and Darling for at least the next few years.

But the best bargaining tool we can get is winning and mate ship. We start winning and Hogan is still mates with Viney and Toumpas then he wont go anywhere.

Agree.

The top 4 is probably unlikely, but I don't think the 8 is in two years. Maybe that sort of progress maybe enough. Mateship and closeness of the playing group I agree would be important.

Carlton, how about you give us Duigan & Robinson and pick 12, for pick 2, (for example)

and so on.

Is this serious a post? Wow, it's another Demonland doozie.

Are there any other demonlanders out there who are concerned that what with 50,000 players out there (slight exaggeration) going left, right and centre from one club to another and the dees HAVE DONE NOTHING. They are like an inert gas!

This is a ridiculous post. Can I refer you to this previous point as to why I think it is?

I think we are too impatient for trading results on here. It is VERY early in the process, and you never buy at first sight. All the business negotiations I have ever been involved in both here and offshore, you always start with an ambit claim to which your opposition fein outrage at the unreasonableness of your demands. It is part of the tactics. What would concern me most is if we did a deal so soon in the period. It would mean we had learnt nothing from the last 5 years.

I’m very attracted to the suggestion on here that we have been “shopping” pick 2 around “with unreasonable demands for which no one is biting” (no doubt a rumour planted in the Press by opposition clubs to try and get us to lessen our demands). What this process does do though is to get other clubs to reveal to us who is really on the market, so we can then go back and target them later on with lower draft picks (and maybe players). Smart negotiating and miles ahead of our tactics of the past.

I have always felt that the “pick 2 is on the table” was a bit of a ruse on our behalf – there are simply too many elite midfielders in the draft who would give us a champion for many years to come (except if we were silly enough to draft another Scully, but I think Roos is too smart for that – his record with the Swans in that regard was impeccable. He will very carefully check out “character". If we had have done that with Scully, even in a very limited form, we would have seen him and his father to be the complete tossers they are).

No, I am very buoyed by what I am observing happening these last couple of weeks. We are employing far more sophisticated tactics than previously, and I am sure we will land so very tasty morsels before this is over. We just need to allow our negotiating team to go through the process. Really good deals take a long time to complete, and are often done at the "11th hour".

We just need to be patient and enjoy watching this pan out. Hopefully we will take a few other clubs for a ride rather than the opposite, which is what has happened in the past.

I’m really enjoying watching this unfold......

Mitch Clark and Chris Dawes both came to the MFC.

It's an absolute myth that nobody wants to play here.

C'mon.

Mitch signed before we became the absolute basketcase we are now and Dawes has said that Neeld was a major factor in him signing. It also wasn't on the back of a season of 2 wins. There was a faint hope the club would build upon Neeld's first season in charge. They were both also paid extremely well, more than their market value at the time.

The club is very much on the nose as a destination. That isn't a myth, that's reality.

C'mon.

Mitch signed before we became the absolute basketcase we are now and Dawes has said that Neeld was a major factor in him signing. It also wasn't on the back of a season of 2 wins. There was a faint hope the club would build upon Neeld's first season in charge. They were both also paid extremely well, more than their market value at the time.

The club is very much on the nose as a destination. That isn't a myth, that's reality.

Nah. If player X chooses team Y over us, it just means that team Y is a better match for their requirements. No biggy.

Every club is different. Every player is different. Heck, every player sees every club differently - a dead-end club to one player is a golden opportunity to another. A team to finish your career at is not necessarily the one to get your career started at. etc. etc.

For me though, the biggest reality is that very few clubs are going to be releasing A-grade 22 y.o. mids - especially when the top picks in the draft after Boyd are all mids. So, we're asking them to give away a young mid for ... a young mid. Tricky to make that fly, for any club.

Mitch Clark and Chris Dawes both came to the MFC.

It's an absolute myth that nobody wants to play here.

But we were only really crap then.

But we were only really crap then.

I hate the off season for several reasons and the trade period is one of them. It usually means that the good players that are up for trade get us interested however due to 5 years of inept performances, they do not end up coming here and the ones that we do get we pay a lot over market value for them (ala dawes and clark) Don't get me wrong I love both those players, however I am sure if we did not offer them the amount of money they are on then we would not have picked them up.

Fans have to come to terms with the fact that we are not an attractive destination. In fact the only thing that we have to offer them is that we have Paul Roos as our coach now. As good as Roos is I don't think he is enough to get a top class player to sign for us. You can't rely on a new coach to entice players to sign.

Also I am aware that only 4 clubs have traded and I am not throwing my hands up that we haven't landed anyone yet i'm not impatient, I am merely stating that people need to realise it is a lot more difficult for us to attract top players to our club regardless of Paul Roos or us having pick 2

SEN just reported rumours of a trade for pick 2 involving st kilda! Well at least an SMS I received said they did...

No, I am very buoyed by what I am observing happening these last couple of weeks. We are employing far more sophisticated tactics than previously, and I am sure we will land so very tasty morsels before this is over. We just need to allow our negotiating team to go through the process. Really good deals take a long time to complete, and are often done at the "11th hour".

D2014, I am humble in your presence. With your obvious superior negotiating skills both within Australia and overseas, would you be kind enough to explain what exactly our ' far more sophisticated tactics' are? I presume you are privy to the workings of the dees negotiating team, maybe you are one of the team?

I sincerely hope that you are quite correct and that we do end up with 'some tasty morsels' as you put it.

Could it be that we snare Del Santo out of Kangaroos clutches or even Montagna????

Do it in a heartbeat!

Could it be that we snare Del Santo out of Kangaroos clutches or even Montagna????

Do it in a heartbeat!

Wouldn't mind them but not for pick 2 no way. Won't have them for long enough to be worth pick 2

I'm.actually worried who it might be. I don't consider any on their list pick 2 worthy.

Dees2014 - I have little doubt that we are struggling to attract who we would like for pick 2.

It's not the end of the world if we keep it but we are not attractive to experienced players and we will fail to attract who we want.

We can try and improve by about 30% points next year and go after some experience next year.

Our decisions are limited, I just hope we make a good decision.

I'm.actually worried who it might be. I don't consider any on their list pick 2 worthy.

I would take Steven.

Armitage and something else would be an idea.

Would be ecstatic with Steven

Armitage would be a good fit, obviously needs to be packaged with someone else though

I would take Steven.

Armitage and something else would be an idea.

Steven absolutely!! Would be the only one though.

Jack Steven is a gun but hes not the kind of star youd want for pick 2

The FA period is dragging on and could be shorter, the players involved have known their status all year. But the AFL draft, trade and salary cap system has restraint of trade implication and FA has been introduced to lessen the AFLPA's possible concerns about this - the extended period is about that - not about our impatience. I reckon the FA period is having an affect on our trading, we need resolution of our Sylvia compo pick before we dive in with our 2nd and 3rd round picks - see the mooted Myers trade for example.

BTW, I can see no reason at all why St.Kilda would trade Jack Steven - he won their best and fairest, or why Jack Steven would move to another struggling Victorian club. Pelchen is a very good list manager - he was key to that Hawthorn premiership list - I think he knows what he's doing and he's not afraid to be bold. I think the McEvoy trade is bold, a Steven trade would be stupid. That is dreamland.

Didbt roos say he would be happy to downgrade picks and st Kilda have 3 picks under the 20s

It could be us getting a player and we trade 2 for pick 3. Gives the Saints a better shot at trying to land Boyd if they can work something out with GWS.

BTW, I can see no reason at all why St.Kilda would trade Jack Steven - he won their best and fairest, or why Jack Steven would move to another struggling Victorian club. Pelchen is a very good list manager - he was key to that Hawthorn premiership list - I think he knows what he's doing and he's not afraid to be bold. I think the McEvoy trade is bold, a Steven trade would be stupid. That is dreamland.

I agree that I can't see why they would trade Steven, but as for your opinion of Pelchen, he sounds like a control freak to me, and I get the feeling that he is driving a lot of whats happening down at the Saints at the moment, and I don't think a lot of that is sitting well with players and some of the football staff. Thats purely my opinion, but he didn't leave the Hawks on the best of terms either if I recall.

I hate the off season for several reasons and the trade period is one of them. It usually means that the good players that are up for trade get us interested however due to 5 years of inept performances, they do not end up coming here and the ones that we do get we pay a lot over market value for them (ala dawes and clark) Don't get me wrong I love both those players, however I am sure if we did not offer them the amount of money they are on then we would not have picked them up.

Fans have to come to terms with the fact that we are not an attractive destination. In fact the only thing that we have to offer them is that we have Paul Roos as our coach now. As good as Roos is I don't think he is enough to get a top class player to sign for us. You can't rely on a new coach to entice players to sign.

WRONG it's been 7 yrs of inept performances DT.

Melbourne into Dom Tyson according to Greg Denham