I agree Big Red. But why are we tiring so quickly and noticeably?

Poor fitness base (already quoted that our list is at about 70% of required conditioning this year). Lack of games in our mid field unit. Just learning what a decent work rate looks like.

I'm not playing dumb but how can an entire list average out to 70% fitness base?

If that's the case, a full pre season would make a world of difference

I dont necessarily agree with you. Our work rate and defensive intent to me has clearly improved. Its our disposal particularly as we tire that is poor. We have played sides that put you to the sword when you turn the ball over. I don't see StKilda and Western as sides that will make you pay on the turn over.

Will have to wait and c but I don't hold your confidence.

I dont necessarily agree with you. Our work rate and defensive intent to me has clearly improved. Its our disposal particularly as we tire that is poor. We have played sides that put you to the sword when you turn the ball over. I don't see StKilda and Western as sides that will make you pay on the turn over.

Agree with you on this.

Watts was good today. Attacked the footy well and was more physical. Pity he didn't convert infront of goal. N jones, M jones, Pedersen, Garland, Blease, Terlich were all good as was Jamar.

Trengove probably had his best game for the year and continues to improve.

Kent and fitzy showed signs and improved as the game went on. Toumpas was in and out of the game.

Yes our skills are poor and we turnover the ball but a lot of that is because of little to no movement up the ground. Coming out of defence there are next to no legitimate targets moving. Is it because our players just don't read the play well? is it because they don't have the fitness to make position? is it because the can't be shagged getting it? is it confidence, or is it because of the game plan?

Solve that problem and we pick up at least half the margin we've been losing by...guarantee it.

This has been one of my longstanding complaints about MFC teams dating back through Bailey and into the Daniher era. I had always felt it was just plain laziness, but maybe lack of fitness goes a long way towards the problem; IF and when Missen and Craig get them up to an AFL level of fitness then if they don't do it, laziness (or just plain dumb) can be the only explanation.

All that Neeld can do is to get more effort from the players for longer periods - is not going to happen overnight but it is happening each week - we have probably just played two of the better teams in relation to effort in the last two weeks. Perhaps or hopefully the players may have learnt something.

Maybe, but sure as hell there had better be far far better performances, and at least a win or two as we come up against St Kilda and the Dogs after the break.

Im still struggling how there are any redeeming qualities to a 83 point thrashing by a side that itself is struggling to find its A-game.

Glimmers here and there are nothing more than that....glimmers.. one might call them 'aberations" even

Neeld doesnt seem able to orchestrate a plan on the run that can contain annihilations.

I just dont seem to understand what anyones trying to achieve because I cant see anything thats working.

I just see a lot of failure...time after time. Nothing is learnt

Too true

What would you change if you were coach? What moves don't you like?

We're not good enough, that's clear but what are the specific game plan issues you have?

Agree - all very well to cane Neeld, but what specifically should he or a successor change?

So basically, on the whole, what we know is.

We cant kick.

There are some exceptions in Watts, Davey,Toumpas,maybe.

The other 18 months I have mentioned this point many times on here and as a reason to forget about Jordie Mac, Magner,Joel Mac etc

Turnovers ARE the BIGGEST way we get scored against.

We cannot use bad kickers any more.

Does everyone get that now?

It's kinda why they call it FOOTball.

They have just mentioned OTC that PJ is going to the AFL on Friday with his plan and then changes will be made. He will get his plan ticked off by the AFL along with some $$$$$$

Changes may include a new coach, head of footy department, reporting structures and board changes etc

Unfortunately this means Neeld will stay a bit longer.

Not neccessarily. Neeld may be paid out.

Few positives: Garland punching above his weight, Fitz, M. Jones, Kent etc showing signs of improvement. But far outweighed by being totally inept at basic football fundamentals. Kicking is deplorable. Handballing to stationary targets and or someone under the pump is doing my nut in. Mark Jamar is the worst. Takes a grab and handballs one meter to a bloke standing still or who gets tackled by the man on the mark. FFS Russian show some leadership. Its so hard to swallow whats going on with this group. If you look at our defensive unit, no-one is an elite kick, in fact some barely go at 50% efficiency (Dunn, Tmac, Terlich, ) so what happens when we get it in defence? Then add to that the inability of the mids to put pressure on the opposition mid group (that has 10 good players rotating through) you get these blow-outs. I just cannot get over the recruiting and developmental mistakes of this club.

Ive been a loyal supporter for 32 years, this is the worst bunch of AFL footballers I've seen. Enough of this having a crack rubbish. I know it sounds harsh, but having two guys like Jordie Mckenzie and previously Clint Bartram not only in the team, but in the leadership group sums this club up to a tee. Accepting and rewarding mediocrity.

I dont know if any coach could do too much with this group before seasons end, but I fear if we dont make a change now, we may lose a couple who actually can play. But I'm starting to run out of hope that this will ever turn around. Until then, keep punching Lads.

Not neccessarily. Neeld may be paid out.

Let me clarrfy that FBPO I meant until this Friday or the weekend not long term.

Few positives: Garland punching above his weight, Fitz, M. Jones, Kent etc showing signs of improvement. But far outweighed by being totally inept at basic football fundamentals. Kicking is deplorable. Handballing to stationary targets and or someone under the pump is doing my nut in. Mark Jamar is the worst. Takes a grab and handballs one meter to a bloke standing still or who gets tackled by the man on the mark. FFS Russian show some leadership. Its so hard to swallow whats going on with this group. If you look at our defensive unit, no-one is an elite kick, in fact some barely go at 50% efficiency (Dunn, Tmac, Terlich, ) so what happens when we get it in defence? Then add to that the inability of the mids to put pressure on the opposition mid group (that has 10 good players rotating through) you get these blow-outs. I just cannot get over the recruiting and developmental mistakes of this club.

Ive been a loyal supporter for 32 years, this is the worst bunch of AFL footballers I've seen. Enough of this having a crack rubbish. I know it sounds harsh, but having two guys like Jordie Mckenzie and previously Clint Bartram not only in the team, but in the leadership group sums this club up to a tee. Accepting and rewarding mediocrity.

I dont know if any coach could do too much with this group before seasons end, but I fear if we dont make a change now, we may lose a couple who actually can play. But I'm starting to run out of hope that this will ever turn around. Until then, keep punching Lads.

Welcome to the nut house bernie.

Does anyone know how far off Mitch Clarke is?

Let me clarrfy that FBPO I meant until this Friday or the weekend not long term.

Okay,understand. It is possible MN may not be in charge of our next game though.

Most of the time it looked as though they had cobbled together a bunch of strangers and told them to go out there and beat Collingwood.

Some individual efforts were there today, but there is just such a lack of team cohesion, coupled with shocking skill errors that continue to plague just about everyone, it's very hard to see them winning another game for the year. Time to grit the teeth and ride this one out. Again.

Does anyone know how far off Mitch Clarke is?

My understanding is Mark Neeld said he probably won't play again this year.

Okay,understand. It is possible MN may not be in charge of our next game though.

Yeah which will be after the bye and is what I am hoping tbh.

The sooner the better if u ask me.

My understanding is Mark Neeld said he probably won't play again this year.

umm what

Was just about to give N Jones a cook until I realised he got 30 touches

I'm quite disappointed that he did not manage to lay a single tackle all friggin game.

Not good enough.

Neeld was saying that he is given 4 days of work via a super expensive specialist then he rests for two days gos back to said specialist and is then told what he can do for the next 4.

I.e. don't expect him any time soon.

Most of the time it looked as though they had cobbled together a bunch of strangers and told them to go out there and beat Collingwood.

Some individual efforts were there today, but there is just such a lack of team cohesion, coupled with shocking skill errors that continue to plague just about everyone, it's very hard to see them winning another game for the year. Time to grit the teeth and ride this one out. Again.

Therein lies the problem; is it the players or the coach?

We have a group of footballers who show no signs of being a team, so is this because they lack ability, fitness, or are the just poorly coached.

Few positives: Garland punching above his weight, Fitz, M. Jones, Kent etc showing signs of improvement. But far outweighed by being totally inept at basic football fundamentals. Kicking is deplorable. Handballing to stationary targets and or someone under the pump is doing my nut in. Mark Jamar is the worst. Takes a grab and handballs one meter to a bloke standing still or who gets tackled by the man on the mark. FFS Russian show some leadership. Its so hard to swallow whats going on with this group. If you look at our defensive unit, no-one is an elite kick, in fact some barely go at 50% efficiency (Dunn, Tmac, Terlich, ) so what happens when we get it in defence? Then add to that the inability of the mids to put pressure on the opposition mid group (that has 10 good players rotating through) you get these blow-outs. I just cannot get over the recruiting and developmental mistakes of this club.

Ive been a loyal supporter for 32 years, this is the worst bunch of AFL footballers I've seen. Enough of this having a crack rubbish. I know it sounds harsh, but having two guys like Jordie Mckenzie and previously Clint Bartram not only in the team, but in the leadership group sums this club up to a tee. Accepting and rewarding mediocrity.

I dont know if any coach could do too much with this group before seasons end, but I fear if we dont make a change now, we may lose a couple who actually can play. But I'm starting to run out of hope that this will ever turn around. Until then, keep punching Lads.

So basically, on the whole, what we know is.

We cant kick.

There are some exceptions in Watts, Davey,Toumpas,maybe.

The other 18 months I have mentioned this point many times on here and as a reason to forget about Jordie Mac, Magner,Joel Mac etc

Turnovers ARE the BIGGEST way we get scored against.

We cannot use bad kickers any more.

Does everyone get that now?

It's kinda why they call it FOOTball.

Let me get this straight Biffen. Are you suggesting we change an entire game plan to accommodate blokes who can kick a football? Crazy talk.

Let me get this straight Biffen. Are you suggesting we change an entire game plan to accommodate blokes who can kick a football? Crazy talk.

Let me get this straight RtG. Are you suggesting we have a game plan? Crazy talk.

My understanding is Mark Neeld said he probably won't play again this year.

umm what

He said Clark's foot injury was "a great wait and see" and he would be pleased if the key forward played another game this year.

"The way that it gets explained, the boys say it's a very unique injury," Neeld said.

"The ligament is going well but they had to take the screw out early because it shifted.

"He does four days of rehab and he's got to rest two.

"On the second day that he rests he goes off and sees some very expensive specialist who then tells him what he can do for the next four days.

"How frustrating is that? I get that report every six days.

"So if Mitch plays another game for the year I'll be really pleased. It's that unknown."