Bailey or Neeld?

[Jonesbag 487]

Is the question I put to a former player last night.

His response "Bailey, by a country mile"

Getting the impression Neeld isnt wanted by the players more and more

[Little Richard 6,265]

A former player? Got a name?

So how long was he actually under Neeld for because being a former player doesn't really support the argument of Bailey>Neeld?

And how do you gauge the current players feelings by a former players opinion?

[dazzledavey36 55,335]

Bailey

[Jonesbag 487]

A former player? Got a name?

So how long was he actually under Neeld for because being a former player doesn't really support the argument of Bailey>Neeld?

And how do you gauge the current players feelings by a former players opinion?

Settle down gossip girl, it was Brad Green the former skipper.

[Little Richard 6,265]

Settle down gossip girl, it was Brad Green the former skipper.

Oh I thought Gossip Girl was the one who started the rumours. That's interesting, did he give you reasons?

[Jonesbag 487]

Oh I thought Gossip Girl was the one who started the rumours. That's interesting, did he give you reasons?

Couldnt tell you about gossip girl mate. Nah just said bailey by a mile, didnt want to press him about it.

[Nasher 33,617]

I conclude from this thread that we should re-hire Dean Bailey as senior coach.

[The Yarra 83]

Dean was able to create a real strong connection with the players and his communication skills were second to none. However you aren't going to win games against good sides with one-way midfielders, poor defensive pressure and the small bodies he and his commrades insisted on drafting. Look at Sydney's drafting.

Mark has his positive areas as well. He's very structured and methodical. Only time will tell if this approach works and the key word is time. I'm with Jackson in that Neeld at least deserves time in a settled environment to show he can coach.

Edited June 9, 2013 by The Yarra

[deanox 9,989]

Send like a fair question, the coach who made you captain or the coach who over saw your retirement?

I wonder what the answer would be if you ask Evans, who just resigned, or Cale Morton who said already that the training standards under Bailey were way too low, or other younger players who have developed like Max Gawn or Sam Blease or Jeremy Howe?

[Tatu 416]

If i had a coach demote me... Cut my pay... Then cut me from the list.... Then I think I'd prefer the coach before him too.... Geez.... Nothing to see here....

[dazzledavey36 55,335]

Dean was able to create a real strong connection with the players and his communication skills were second to none. However you aren't going to win games against good sides with one-way midfielders, poor defensive pressure and the small bodies he and his commrades insisted on drafting. Look at Sydney's drafting.

Mark has his positive areas as well. He's very structured and methodical. Only time will tell if this approach works and the key word is time. I'm with Jackson in that Neeld at least deserves time in a settled environment to show he can coach.

In 2010 we we lost by a point to the premiers and then we drew with them Queens Birthday. We also thrashed Syndey, pushed the Western Bulldogs right to the last 30 seconds, lost a close tight one to freo at there home ground, beat Brisbane at there home ground, Kept right after to hawthorn until last 5 minutes. lost by 3 goals.Then last game we lost by 2 goals to North.

In 2011 we drew with Sydney round 1, Thrashed Adelaide in round 7, pumped Essendon that Friday night, thrashed Freo aswell, we also beat Richmond aswell. After 186 happened and bailey was sacked our confidence was ripped out of the players.

I think that's a rubbish statement saying we weren't up to it against good sides. We would give some of those top sides a run for their money, and so much more competitive compared to the shambles we are now.

Under Bailey we played an exciting attacking brand of football. it was fun to watch. You coud see the game plan coming along. One thing Bailey lacked was just that one key big Forward. Only mistake he did was letting go Bruce and Mcdonald. Massive leadership there out the window.

Players were developing well under Bailey. Trengove, Gysberts, Watts, Morton, Grimes (bar injuries) Jurrah, Tapscott, Frawley, Wona, Bennell... Whats happened to them now..

[titan_uranus 25,043]

In 2010 we we lost by a point to the premiers and then we drew with them Queens Birthday. We also thrashed Syndey, pushed the Western Bulldogs right to the last 30 seconds, lost a close tight one to freo at there home ground, beat Brisbane at there home ground, Kept right after to hawthorn until last 5 minutes. lost by 3 goals.Then last game we lost by 2 goals to North.

In 2011 we drew with Sydney round 1, Thrashed Adelaide in round 7, pumped Essendon that Friday night, thrashed Freo aswell, we also beat Richmond aswell. After 186 happened and bailey was sacked our confidence was ripped out of the players.

I think that's a rubbish statement saying we weren't up to it against good sides. We would give some of those top sides a run for their money, and so much more competitive compared to the shambles we are now.

Under Bailey we played an exciting attacking brand of football. it was fun to watch. You coud see the game plan coming along. One thing Bailey lacked was just that one key big Forward. Only mistake he did was letting go Bruce and Mcdonald. Massive leadership there out the window.

Players were developing well under Bailey. Trengove, Gysberts, Watts, Morton, Grimes (bar injuries) Jurrah, Tapscott, Frawley, Wona, Bennell... Whats happened to them now..

I'm not sure what the technical term for this kind of reasoning is, where one looks unfairly favourably on the past because the present is gloomy. Whatever the term is, you're suffering from it. The Bailey era was no better than the current one.

Dean Bailey put us in a position where we were downhill skiiers. When the going went our way we could run forwards in droves and score heavily. But when opponents put the pressure on us, we fell apart. Our mids weren't defensive enough at all, not even close. We beat those sides because we matched up well against them and had good days. Our players weren't fit enough, didn't run hard enough, couldn't tackle hard enough, didn't try tackling enough, and generally were all offense with no defence.

Looking at your list of players - Trengove is no worse now than he was in 2011. Gysberts did not 'develop', he came in, played some good games, but did not progress at all. Morton didn't 'develop' at all, his failure as an AFL player is Bailey's, not Neeld's, fault. Grimes is still one of our best players, no idea why you're suggesting he's not. Tapscott did not 'develop', he is no worse or better now than in 2011, he's stagnated because he's not a very talented player. Bennell was never any good, so I don't know what your point is there. Frawley is indeed playing worse than in 2011, but he's improving this year and getting better each week. As for Jurrah and Wonaeamirri, if you want to attempt to place some sort of blame on Neeld for those players, you're actually proving your insanity.

At any rate - Bailey had two years, 2008 and 2009, where we were insipid, before any of what you've said took place, yet you're calling Neeld out midway into his second year.

[Mr Steve 3,820]

in the words of Midnight Oil - short memory.

Tanking in 2010, the eight game for nil remember when
Sacked Junior Mac oh what a mess short memory
Tried to beat the cats one day , 186 forgot to play
everyone said sack him now short memory
Turned on us and cost us heaps,
because of him were in this mess short memory

Short memory, must have a, short memory

[Gippsland Dee 367]

Bailey. He may've had the team unfit and not up to AFL standard in that area, but atleast we were in Finals contention under him and we were flogging a few teams (freo and crows). His game plan may've been completely one sided and when it went bad it went really bad but atleast we were competetive for most of the time. The players played for him, they don't seem to do the same for Neeld.

[Little Richard 6,265]

Bailey. He may've had the team unfit and not up to AFL standard in that area, but atleast we were in Finals contention under him and we were flogging a few teams (freo and crows). His game plan may've been completely one sided and when it went bad it went really bad but atleast we were competetive for most of the time. The players played for him, they don't seem to do the same for Neeld.

As t_u said, it's ridiculous to be comparing a coach at the four year point to a coach halfway through his second year.

People also tend to forget Bailey's problems with the senior players when he first came to the club - he and Neeld are not so different in issues caused and faced.

[titan_uranus 25,043]

atleast we were competetive for most of the time.

Not only is this an overstatement (we were competitive for some matches and non-competitive in others), this 'competitiveness' occurred in his third and fourth years.

[junk 342]

what is the pt of the question.still gob smacked.Jeff says keep neeld,I agree until rd 20.Jeff should be president,he has balls,demetriou approves.forget marshmallow presidents and board members.54 yrs a supporter have seen it all before.

[stuie 7,374]

Send like a fair question, the coach who made you captain or the coach who over saw your retirement?

I wonder what the answer would be if you ask Evans, who just resigned, or Cale Morton who said already that the training standards under Bailey were way too low, or other younger players who have developed like Max Gawn or Sam Blease or Jeremy Howe?

Haha... You mean Morton who Neeld traded away, Gawn who is yet to re-sign, Blease who isn't getting games, and Howe who's playing in the backline half the time....?

Reckon their honest opinions might not be that much different to Green's.

[Gippsland Dee 367]

As t_u said, it's ridiculous to be comparing a coach at the four year point to a coach halfway through his second year.

People also tend to forget Bailey's problems with the senior players when he first came to the club - he and Neeld are not so different in issues caused and faced.

Not only is this an overstatement (we were competitive for some matches and non-competitive in others), this 'competitiveness' occurred in his third and fourth years.

fair points from both of you.

[Little Richard 6,265]

Haha... You mean Morton who Neeld traded away, Gawn who is yet to re-sign, Blease who isn't getting games, and Howe who's playing in the backline half the time....?

Reckon their honest opinions might not be that much different to Green's.

How about... Morton who was rubbish anyway, Gawn who will re-sign soon (his value is hard to determine and contract talks are probably progressing slowly as management works through it with the club), Blease who hasn't earnt games and Howe who is learning versatility and becoming a better player for it.

I guess we can all look at it differently though Stu.

[Pirlo 813]

Don't like either, but Bailey for sure.

[Pirlo 813]

Send like a fair question, the coach who made you captain or the coach who over saw your retirement?

I wonder what the answer would be if you ask Evans, who just resigned, or Cale Morton who said already that the training standards under Bailey were way too low, or other younger players who have developed like Max Gawn or Sam Blease or Jeremy Howe?

Brad Green kicked 400 goals for us, played 250 games and even captained us - his opinion matters.

There's a reason why he earned those accolades, he was a bloody good player.

[titan_uranus 25,043]

Just to refresh some people's memories, this is a thread from 2011 (Bailey's fourth year. It was, it seems, one of Bailey's 'better' years).

What do you want to see from the players this week?

From memory, this was the week after we were non-competitive against West Coast on a Thursday night.

Sound familiar?

Bailey did not have this club in any better position. For all the flashy wins we had, we similarly were able to be non-competitive, toothless, weak and lazy. The lack of defensive capabilities was present every game we played; some weeks we scored enough to get by, other weeks we didn't and were suitably embarrassed.

Edited June 9, 2013 by titan_uranus

[Hannibal 5,814]

Send like a fair question, the coach who made you captain or the coach who over saw your retirement?

I wonder what the answer would be if you ask Evans, who just resigned, or Cale Morton who said already that the training standards under Bailey were way too low, or other younger players who have developed like Max Gawn or Sam Blease or Jeremy Howe?

I agree it's not a fair question, but it speaks volumes for how Neeld was perceived by the older players. All of the younger and middle age brigade would know how he's viewed by the senior group and it undermines his authority. It actually gives ordinary players an excuse not to play well. Because everyone knows it's the fault of our pathetic coach. Neeld takes the heat and the players get off scott free. It might only be subliminal, but it can be enough.

It's another reason why Neeld must go. He's too tainted for his message to resonate.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,939]

I see a bit of Norm Smith, Kevin Sheedy, Tom Hafey and Leigh Matthews in Dean Bailey after comparing him to the current coach.

It should be noted that Bailey won 11 games between round 15 2010 and round 17 2011.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Bring-Back-Powell