Just when you thought we may have been implementing cultural change

[Dr. Gonzo 24,216]

The strategy put into simple terms, not necessarily for your benefit, is to develop a group of players, who are both physically and mentally capable of performing at a consistently high standard throughout the season, leading to winning sufficient games to particpate in a finals campaign and ultimately the big one, the premiership cup.

At the same time, developing a culture throughout the whole Club to ensure that the above once attained becomes the norm rather than the exception and the success and excellence is sustained over a lengthy period

Think that about covers it......can't wait for your thoughts

Pfft, lightweight. How erudite of you, that's the aim of every football club in the comp - the STRATEGY to get there is a different matter, something you've failed to articulate yet are happy to put blind faith in. That's fine if that's the route you want to take but you can hardly be critical of others if they are just a tad cynical after 50 years of the club spouting the same platitudes and continually delivering dross.

[Stigga 25]

The strategy put into simple terms, not necessarily for your benefit, is to develop a group of players, who are both physically and mentally capable of performing at a consistently high standard throughout the season, leading to winning sufficient games to particpate in a finals campaign and ultimately the big one, the premiership cup.

At the same time, developing a culture throughout the whole Club to ensure that the above once attained becomes the norm rather than the exception and the success and excellence is sustained over a lengthy period

That's the strategy of every club...

It's just that nothing in this year has suggested that the current mob will be able to bring this to fruition...

I'm interested to hear what would need to happen for you to completely loss faith in the current set-up?

[PJ_12345 1,098]

Actually we've done it once over the past 6 seasons - we sacked Bailey after the worst loss in the modern era. He had 4 seasons and the team was still a shambles.

I was talking about board, CEO, coach and staff axing - which has been quite a few (see my first post to Macca) - for example CS was our 3rd CEO in 6 seasons

"That's why it annoys me when I see people calling top down axing of board, staff and coach."

Mos tof the axing has been with reason, but I'm saying now why don't we give MN the chance to prove himself without judging him this early

Edited April 16, 2013 by PJ_12345

[Satyriconhome 10,878]

Pfft, lightweight. How erudite of you, that's the aim of every football club in the comp - the STRATEGY to get there is a different matter, something you've failed to articulate yet are happy to put blind faith in. That's fine if that's the route you want to take but you can hardly be critical of others if they are just a tad cynical after 50 years of the club spouting the same platitudes and continually delivering dross.

You asked me to ariculate the strategy which I did, the implementation will be exactly the same as every other club, if given the time to do it

If you don't know why the club is a shambles you might as well just give it away now. Hint - it has something to do with losing by 100 points every week.

* Membership growing? Hmm don't think so, it's shrinking this year and did last year as well.

* May keep the finances going? This isn't even a coherent point but our finances are worse this year than last so whatever point you're making is irrelevant.

* A new Board member should help - well you'd hope so but there's no evidence this will be the case.

* It wasn't pretty on Saturday - ding ding ding, well done, you've hit the nail on the head. This is what the supporters care about above all - most couldn't give a stuff if we're millions in the hole they'll turn up as long as the team is playing well. They don't have to win every week but they do have to be competitive.

Kent, Barry, Clisby? They've shown nothing to date so can't say they have taken another step forward. It is early days and may work out but you can't claim it as a win as yet. Heard the same things about numerous players over the last decade. Matt Jones is looking OK, Terlich has his moments but nothing special yet.

I'm not saying we should sack Neeld, I'm not saying we shouldn't - I can see arguments both ways, I think we need to give him a chance to have a decent crack at it - by the same token the early signs don't look promising and it will be difficult to justify keeping him on if the team continues tor ack up these demoralising defeats. Regardless of what anyone may think if we keep getting belted supporters will turn away in droves. I fail to see why being competitive is seen as exclusive to rebuilding the team into a finals/premiership contender, Sydney can do it, North can do it, Geelong has done it - it's football not rocket science, you don't have to be completely hopeless to have to have a chance to build towards being great.

You've not gone 50 years wow

The membership grew last year, assume it will be roughly the same this year, (bit nearer the coalface to know this)

Acutally know the guy's record, most of which is in the Public Domain if you care to read it, probably not, just [censored] on it

We were competitive for a half and ding ding, 30000+ members have re signed, so it may be the one thing for a small majority on here to be winning and nothing else matters

How do you know the finances are worse, do you do the books?,

You support the Club, but now you are only interested in 2 hours each weekend so cool, so from now on don't criticize us that have a bit more interest than that

By the way North are zip and 3

[Strafford 182]

The strategy put into simple terms, not necessarily for your benefit, is to develop a group of players, who are both physically and mentally capable of performing at a consistently high standard throughout the season, leading to winning sufficient games to particpate in a finals campaign and ultimately the big one, the premiership cup.

At the same time, developing a culture throughout the whole Club to ensure that the above once attained becomes the norm rather than the exception and the success and excellence is sustained over a lengthy period

Think that about covers it......can't wait for your thoughts

Although this is a bit of a generalised mission statement, I am pleased to see you embracing the concept of culture. Edited April 16, 2013 by Strafford

[Satyriconhome 10,878]

That's the strategy of every club...

It's just that nothing in this year has suggested that the current mob will be able to bring this to fruition...

I'm interested to hear what would need to happen for you to completely loss faith in the current set-up?

Correct....ah the light goes on.....we last played finals 7 years ago.....since then we dropped the ball......now we are trying after a false start to build again, so once again we can play finals, but wait, let's be like other clubs and just keeping sacking the coach and everybody associated with him until we get it right......hello Carlton.........or let's grit our teeth and try the Geelong method....you never know it might work....

Just a point, and yes I love what the Swans have done, but how long from the relocation to Sydney did it take for them to achieve the ultimate sucess?......but they built it to last

I will lose faith when the Board/CEO decide it is not going to work and sack the Coaching staff

[Satyriconhome 10,878]

Although this is a bit of a generalised mission statement, I am pleased to see you embracing the concept of culture.

Sorry, I was asked to ariculate it so I used as many modern buzz words as I could

[Stigga 25]

Correct....ah the light goes on.....we last played finals 7 years ago.....since then we dropped the ball......now we are trying after a false start to build again, so once again we can play finals, but wait, let's be like other clubs and just keeping sacking the coach and everybody associated with him until we get it right......hello Carlton.........or let's grit our teeth and try the Geelong method....you never know it might work....

Just a point, and yes I love what the Swans have done, but how long from the relocation to Sydney did it take for them to achieve the ultimate sucess?......but they built it to last

I will lose faith when the Board/CEO decide it is not going to work and sack the Coaching staff

So you'd be happy to give it 15 years?

[Strafford 182]

Sorry, I was asked to ariculate it so I used as many modern buzz words as I could

Never compromise your principles mate.

[rjay 24,928]

Because I have actually read/listened/watched only the facts being presented to me, not listened to the media, so called pundits, other posters on this board.......of course I may be wrong, who knows, that is the point some of us are trying to make, this is a thread started yet again on hearsay.........show me the photographs........and even if they were sitting in the spa playing with each other for half an hour..........just another excuse for posters with an agenda to bash the Club they supposedly support

You are too close to the club so hardly an objective observer 'Satyriconhome'.

Not saying you are right or wrong but your view is as coloured as any that you are accusing.

[rjay 24,928]

Step one is to appoint a new CEO, nothing further should happen until then. It is the most important appointment for this club going forward and I would hope the AFL are actively involved in the appointment to the level of yes or no. I don't trust our current board to make the right choice.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,216]

You asked me to ariculate the strategy which I did, the implementation will be exactly the same as every other club, if given the time to do it

You've not gone 50 years wow

The membership grew last year, assume it will be roughly the same this year, (bit nearer the coalface to know this)

Acutally know the guy's record, most of which is in the Public Domain if you care to read it, probably not, just [censored] on it

We were competitive for a half and ding ding, 30000+ members have re signed, so it may be the one thing for a small majority on here to be winning and nothing else matters

How do you know the finances are worse, do you do the books?,

You support the Club, but now you are only interested in 2 hours each weekend so cool, so from now on don't criticize us that have a bit more interest than that

By the way North are zip and 3

No, you didn't articulate the strategy at all, you articulated a broad aim which is the same for all football clubs at all levels. If that is the level of our club's strategy no wonder we're stuffed. I'm not surprised though, you've offered nothing more than sycophantic support for the club and sniping anyone who dares offer any criticism so it doesn't surprise me that you've got no clue.

The membership definitely did not grow last year, it fell from 36,937 in 2011 to 35,345 in 2012 and is on track to fall further this year. If you can't get soemthing as basic as those raw figures correct no wonder you're incapable of offering anything of substance on more difficult issues. You are a volunteer who works the phones, you've got no greater insight into this than anyone else on the board despite your claims.

"The guy" you speak of may have an impeccable record which is in the Public Domain - so have others who have come before. I'm not [censored] on it, just being cynical that appointing one board member is going to turn the ship around. In case you haven't noticed it takes hard work to be successful in footy not just a messiah to come and save the club.

Wow, we were competitive for a half - in case you haven't noticed a game is made up of four quarters. I'm glad you're happy we can be competitive for half a game out of 3 games but some of us have higher expectations.

The finances have been reported on - the club expects to lose money this year and would have its arse hanging out if not for donations and handouts.

So in summary you've got NFI so don't waste your time dribbling utter rubbish because the vast majority of supporters on here see through your apologies for failure. You think you're supporting the club but you're not, you're supporting failure which is harmful in the extreme.

[praha 11,240]

Oh wow, I just listened to that.

Shocking that people here are still being so apologetic for this club and the players.

Long way off. [censored] of Frawley, Watts, Sylvia, all these "experienced" boys that think they're God's gift to the league.

[Satyriconhome 10,878]

No, you didn't articulate the strategy at all, you articulated a broad aim which is the same for all football clubs at all levels. If that is the level of our club's strategy no wonder we're stuffed. I'm not surprised though, you've offered nothing more than sycophantic support for the club and sniping anyone who dares offer any criticism so it doesn't surprise me that you've got no clue.

The membership definitely did not grow last year, it fell from 36,937 in 2011 to 35,345 in 2012 and is on track to fall further this year. If you can't get soemthing as basic as those raw figures correct no wonder you're incapable of offering anything of substance on more difficult issues. You are a volunteer who works the phones, you've got no greater insight into this than anyone else on the board despite your claims.

"The guy" you speak of may have an impeccable record which is in the Public Domain - so have others who have come before. I'm not [censored] on it, just being cynical that appointing one board member is going to turn the ship around. In case you haven't noticed it takes hard work to be successful in footy not just a messiah to come and save the club.

Wow, we were competitive for a half - in case you haven't noticed a game is made up of four quarters. I'm glad you're happy we can be competitive for half a game out of 3 games but some of us have higher expectations.

The finances have been reported on - the club expects to lose money this year and would have its arse hanging out if not for donations and handouts.

So in summary you've got NFI so don't waste your time dribbling utter rubbish because the vast majority of supporters on here see through your apologies for failure. You think you're supporting the club but you're not, you're supporting failure which is harmful in the extreme.

I say chap think you may have the figures the wrong way around on membership, haven't got the raw data available so I generalised, how terrible of me, you seem to have a grasp so I'll take your word for it, I was probably misinformed or I misinformed myself, but man enough to admit I may be wong sorry wrong

So I am only a volunteer who works the phones, so nice of you to pigeonhole me, how do you know that's all I do

The club doesn't expect to lose money this season, what they did say was there may be a problem, what if they attract another sponsor. Also I didn't say the new Board Member will turn the club around I said he may be able to assist with his business acumen, if you must quote, quote correctly

What's wrong, you don't like positivity, what the sun does not come up over your house when we lose

Substance, I keep coming up with substance and the Hole in the Head gang just shits on it, there is a group on this board that seems to wallow in failure, which I find very sad

Do you want a go at the strategy, I must say my articulation was facetious, probably most posters saw that

What are the difficult issues, apart from grown me frollicking together in a sauna (possibly naked)

Edited April 16, 2013 by Satyriconhome

[Strafford 182]

I say chap think you may have the figures the wrong way around on membership, haven't got the raw data available so I generalised, how terrible of me, you seem to have a grasp so I'll take your word for it, I was probably misinformed or I misinformed myself, but man enough to admit I may be wong sorry wrong

So I am only a volunteer who works the phones, so nice of you to pigeonhole me, how do you know that's all I do

The club doesn't expect to lose money this season, what they did say was there may be a problem, what if they attract another sponsor. Also I didn't say the new Board Member will turn the club around I said he may be able to assist with his business acumen, if you must quote, quote correctly

What's wrong, you don't like positivity, what the sun does not come up over your house when we lose

Substance, I keep coming up with substance and the Hole in the Head gang just shits on it, there is a group on this board that seems to wallow in failure, which I find very sad

Do you want a go at the strategy, I must say my articulation was facetious, probably most posters saw that

What are the difficult issues, apart from grown me frollicking together in a sauna (possibly naked)

Time for a thread on supporter culture I do believe.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,216]

Listen, bottom line all of us here support the club and want it to succeed. I don't think we should be sacking Neeld, especially not this early I the season, and think we need to give him time to develop his team but by the same token I can completely understand those who say we have gone backwards under him and that he needs to go. It's not cut and dry and I can see pros and cons for both sides of the argument. I did think Schwab had to go and am borderline on McLardy as well though am thinking he's just no up to it.

What I don't get though is those who attack other supporters for being frustrated, angry and cynical that things will turn especially considering we've heard all this before and there is no evidence in the last 25 games to say we're on the right track. Minimal evidence of game plan, minimal evidence of competitiveness or the players willing to play for the coach. No ones suggesting we should be top 4 or even top 8 this year but I don't think it's too much to say we should t be losing by ~100 points every week.

As for the strategy, I asked you about that as you said you had discussed it with people at the club who had explained it to you and you had faith in it - that being the case I asked you to articulate it. How can you have faith in something if you can't explain it you may as well go join those religious nuts every weekend instead of the footy nuts at the G.

[Pirlo 813]

Short-term results aren't as important to me because compared to seeing us not have to go through this crap again.

But I guess people like you would rather expect us to be in finals right now, and if you not in finals in two years YOURE GONE... deja vu

I think that people like Macca (and myself) don't expect to see us stone cold last two seasons in. There is one thing worse than being despised,and that is being pitied. Melbourne is being pitied, nobody is afraid of us anymore. We're a toothless tiger, a demon with fire or a trident.

[monoccular 17,428]

Geez this club needs a win, any win, very soon.

This thread, like so many others, has degenerated into personal bickering and points scoring.

Mods???

[Satyriconhome 10,878]

Listen, bottom line all of us here support the club and want it to succeed. I don't think we should be sacking Neeld, especially not this early I the season, and think we need to give him time to develop his team but by the same token I can completely understand those who say we have gone backwards under him and that he needs to go. It's not cut and dry and I can see pros and cons for both sides of the argument. I did think Schwab had to go and am borderline on McLardy as well though am thinking he's just no up to it.

What I don't get though is those who attack other supporters for being frustrated, angry and cynical that things will turn especially considering we've heard all this before and there is no evidence in the last 25 games to say we're on the right track. Minimal evidence of game plan, minimal evidence of competitiveness or the players willing to play for the coach. No ones suggesting we should be top 4 or even top 8 this year but I don't think it's too much to say we should t be losing by ~100 points every week.

As for the strategy, I asked you about that as you said you had discussed it with people at the club who had explained it to you and you had faith in it - that being the case I asked you to articulate it. How can you have faith in something if you can't explain it you may as well go join those religious nuts every weekend instead of the footy nuts at the G.

Because, basically, if you read the so called positive posters, we all know where we are at the moment....I watch the game live and then I watch it on replay......but

but then some other posters on here go on and on and on and on and on.....always the same thing...sack him, change this, turn that, revolve this, we're crap they're crap....what is the point.......be cynical, be angry, be frustrated....

.let's make an agreement 1 thread each Monday....1 vent per poster.....end......

All this going backwards rubbish.....some posters haven't liked anything the club has done since 1964......

.there is even a thread about getting Rodney Eade....I mean for crying out loud....great success at the Bulldogs and all that.....this is what pisses me off.........

They did discuss it with me, it is not brain surgery it is exactly the same strategy as the rest of the footy clubs, recruit the right players, train them the right way, teach them to play the right way etc etc.......as I said before it is just footy....what sort of strategy do you want, we are not planning on taking Stalingrad in the winter

[Strafford 182]

Geez this club needs a win, any win, very soon.

This thread, like so many others, has degenerated into personal bickering and points scoring.

Mods???

True enough mate. It's tough avoiding pigeonholing people with buzzwords, but...Essentially though it is pretty much down to no-one is really right or wrong, so around and around we go. As you say we need a good win against a good club, just so we can really see progress and it would be a huge shot in the arm for team morale.

[Strafford 182]

I think that people like Macca (and myself) don't expect to see us stone cold last two seasons in. There is one thing worse than being despised,and that is being pitied. Melbourne is being pitied, nobody is afraid of us anymore. We're a toothless tiger, a demon with fire or a trident.

Yep being pitied sucks.

[Satyriconhome 10,878]

Geez this club needs a win, any win, very soon.

This thread, like so many others, has degenerated into personal bickering and points scoring.

Mods???

This thread like many many many others degenerates into personal bickering and points scoring whether we have a win or not, it is a public board, you have to expect that

As for the post about being pitied

Conversation Monday morning in work after 145 point loss

Carlton Support "Mate, what about Melbourne?"

Me "we were terrible, now [censored] off"

I did not get disturbed for the rest of the week

[Strafford 182]

Is anyone else crying here, or is it just me?

[praha 11,240]

Is anyone else crying here, or is it just me?

No, I'm crying too.

[Strafford 182]

No, I'm crying too.

Hopefully with laughter as well mate. Some reasonable discussion was had despite the questionable material that inspired the thread and a few backhanders thrown, but honestly you just had to giggle towards the end. Sometimes you just have to laugh at yourself. Edited April 16, 2013 by Strafford