What happens if we lose to GWS?

[dpositive 1,665]

It surely comes down to the coach.

I am not calling for instant dismissal but he is surely running out of time.

I dont know what he presented on appointment but his approach did seem to unsettle all playing group. Making co captains from youngest group may have been a long term strategy but may have such a short term impact that it doesnt eventuate.

He has now cut and replaced and the feeling throughout the off season seemed ok but has not been sustained and may have been irreparibly destroyed unless the coach can find something he has not displayed.

robbiefrom13, on 14 Apr 2013 - 21:26, said:

Jumbo et al, the thing is, we only have the players we have. It's the coach's job to get out of them what they may be capable of. You bag out the players as not having anything in them, while others of us bag out the coach for not getting anything out of them.

I am willing to give him time but there must be some improvement. 1 Half against WC represents an improvement What happened after that???

What is not negotiable is which players we have to pick from, for the remainder of this year. You cannot improve anything by targeting the players, not before the end of the year - it just isn't possible to dump and replace them. So, if what is going on is not acceptable (surely we are agreed on that...), the only change that can be tried is changing the coach.

Or that the coach changes his seemingly single minded approach

And perhaps I'd see it differently if Neeld wasn't telling us - and looking like - he has no ideas. Something has got to change.

I agree

Perhaps the board etc placed too much expectation on Neeld

[thaipantsman 180]

Neeld and the board sure "cleaned out" as some suggested should of happened while Daniher was coach. Sad thing is the next coach will have to clean out again the likes of Rodan, Sellar, Byrnes, Pederson along with paying out Jamar who we would of been free of if not for Neeld.

Truth is Neeld will never attract any good players. He simply hasn't got it. The vibe is not there. The longer he stays the worse it will be for Melbourne's young developing list.

Win or lose GWS Neeld should go.

Common, we all know it.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Neeld and the board sure "cleaned out" as some suggested should of happened while Daniher was coach. Sad thing is the next coach will have to clean out again the likes of Rodan, Sellar, Byrnes, Pederson along with paying out Jamar who we would of been free of if not for Neeld.

Truth is Neeld will never attract any good players. He simply hasn't got it. The vibe is not there. The longer he stays the worse it will be for Melbourne's young developing list.

Win or lose GWS Neeld should go.

Common, we all know it.

Absolute rubbish.

All of us on this forum merely speculate and hand wring.

You accuse me of reading too much of the Hun, but I reckon you listen to SEN too much.

Clark - recruited by Neeld

Dawes - recruited by Neeld

M Jones - recruited by Neeld

Terlich - recruited by Neeld

Kent - recruited by Neeld (yet to play, but looks likely)

N Jones - playing the best footy of his career, under Neeld.

The penny may have dropped with Sylvia....responding.

Evans played well on Saturday and will get better...under Neeld.

J Viney - playing with the spirit and guts ALL our players should be displaying...under Neeld.

Our captains are bloody, bold and resolute!!!

Byrnes, Pedersen and Gillies may yet work out.

He, too, is a developing coach in the AFL - he needs time.

We do agree on one thing - Daniher needed to rebuilt after 2000.

[Weedster 174]

"We do agree on one thing - Daniher needed to rebuilt after 2000"

That was 13 seasons and 13 drafts ago ! Give me a spell.

"Byrnes, Pedersen and Gillies may yet work out."

No they won't - list cloggers

[DEMON FROM WITHIN 46]

I'm not a school teacher. I just prefer to spell things correctly.

And his boxing sessions were about emasculating the younger players, just as it was for Brock McLean.

Moloney made his own call. If he hadn't been lazy and egotistical, he'd have played a role for the team. It's not about any one individual.

I agree a good coach gets the best out of his players, but what Bailey got out of him was not the best and if it was it's not worth it. Moloney was endemic of the Bailey era. If we were playing an interstate team at the 'G he'd turn up. He rarely got it down against good opposition.

Adam withot being rude please tell me of a midfielder over the past 6 years other than James Macdonald who regularily won centre clearances out of the middle

[jumbo returns 6,741]

"We do agree on one thing - Daniher needed to rebuilt after 2000"

That was 13 seasons and 13 drafts ago ! Give me a spell.

"Byrnes, Pedersen and Gillies may yet work out."

No they won't - list cloggers

Opinions differ.

You have yours and I have mine.

Byrnes, Pedersen and Gillies have had THREE games.

Remember Juice Newton???

[DEMON FROM WITHIN 46]

Please allow me to elaborate on something that won't change from coach to coach.

Fitness

Accountability

Professionalism

Pride

Values

Respect

Competing

Contesting

Team work

Only half a dozen players on our list have these core characteristics.

The rest are not up to AFL standard.

Jumbo what a load of crap you stated - every point you put down can be improved by a new coach who the players respect and want to play for.

From your opinions it seems you know very llittle about how a change of coach can quickly change things around current example Port Adelaide Past Example Daniher at Melbourne

[nutbean 8,838]

Today made it patently obvious to me just how poorly coached our players have been.

- Colin Garland's constant indecision about when to go towards the ball and when to peel back is just ridiculous. This should have been picked up by the coaches and gotten out of his game 3 years ago. It would have been identified and resolved at other clubs.

- Our entire backline (and most of our midfield for that matter) seem to think they should never move towards the ball until after their opponents have. What's wrong with attacking it and taking the mark yourself instead of giving up prime position and waiting back?? Once again, needs to be corrected by the coaches.

- Tom McDonald (although I thought he was good today) gave up a mark in the goal square to Darling where McDonald had the front position and and managed to give it up without laying a finger on Darling. Who the fark is coaching these guys?? His hand should have been back feeling for his opponent so he had some idea of where he was going to come from. How can we keep making these mistakes every single week??

- It's also the coaches jobs to ensure the team is mentally prepared to compete for 4 quarters. The excuse about how good the Eagles midfield was is complete rubbish. The 3rd quarter was embarrassing and non competitive. How the fark can we have so many less tackles than WCE and so much less of the ball. That is 100% a mindset issue and something good coaching would sort out!

I don't buy into the talk of our list being the crappest going around. By expanding the league to 18 teams the result is that every club in the AFL carries some relatively average players in their 22 each week. Other clubs teach these players how to fulfill their roles and we simply don't.

I agreed with Neeld's demands on the players when he arrived, but I am concerned that perhaps he didn't approach it the right way with the individuals themselves. Despite our 'Football University' approach there doesn't seem to be too many players that are improving greatly. The line coaches also need to take responsibility for the lack of progress in all 3 areas of the ground.

Good coaching would see this group competitive quickly enough. I am getting concerned that if we continue like this, we will see a max exodus of good players at the end of the year (including Frawley although he doesn't seem to give a $hit anymore anyway) which will make it that much harder for a new coach.

So I gather the players have no responsibility or accountability for their actions ( or inactions) on the field.

I think I might have overheard Neeld "Col....don't bother standing your ground or trying to make position - just grab the arms mate - the umpire won't see it ..ohh and also ...always make sure you give your opponent a 3 metre headstart - thats the way ! Tommy Mc - don't feel for the body of the opposition mate - people will start to talk and question your manliness...And all you players - go about it half arsed...dont lay a tackle in the second half as I more than happy with your first half"....

Ultimately the coach gets the blame for the rabble that the team is because it is easier to sack one or two coaches than the 20 plus players that take the field. Your example of Colin Garland and blaming coaches - we have had a plethora of coaches and assistants - but you would rather blame ALL of them for not having a little word in Col's ear rather than maybe think that Colin Garland is what Colin Garland is ? I actually do blame a whole line of coaches and assistants for not dropping Garland years ago as apart from a handful of games he has been doing the same stuff from day one.

[nutbean 8,838]

Jumbo what a load of crap you stated - every point you put down can be improved by a new coach who the players respect and want to play for.

From your opinions it seems you know very llittle about how a change of coach can quickly change things around current example Port Adelaide Past Example Daniher at Melbourne

And is an indictment on the players at Port Adelaide ....

This constant excusing of the players makes me want to vomit. I can blame general fitness, game plan and players being played out of position to the coach but a footballer who goes at it hlaf hearted is the coaches fault ? This idea that it is up to a coach to motivate a player to play well sickens me....good god...these guys are paid a small fortune...

If a player wants or doesnt want to play for a coach then we have the wrong players. Of course it makes a difference but put the blowtorch on the players where it squarely belongs. Players like Jones and Clark dont play for the coach - they play for pride in their performance - Even though Clark hasnt been great he looks like he gives a damn.

We are seeing the difference between the athletes in our team and professional athletes in other teams - guys who give a rats arse about their performances and dont need a coach to get them up or a cause. We have been blaming coaches who cannot motivate the team since 1964 - how about blaming players who dont take pride in their performance.

[nutbean 8,838]

Truth is Neeld will never attract any good players.

My opinion is different from yours and thats fair enough...all entitled to our opinion - but dont let facts stand in the way of your argument.

We attracted Mitch Clark and Chris Dawes to the club - whilst they may not be champions - both are very good footballers that were "attracted" to the club.

[P-man 13,366]

I will request to be knocked out and woken up around October.

[DEMON FROM WITHIN 46]

Nut Bean a coach is also paid extremely well to perform and to get the best out of the players

Northey and Daniher both got our team into Grand finals.

Sack Neeld and move on

[nutbean 8,838]

Ponder this question - if indeed it is the coach - how do you explain 40 minutes of football on Saturday where we were competitive and had a real crack...

Unfortunately Neeld only gave them half a tank of motivation.....Neeld only coached them to run a little under two quarters.

At what stage do the players take responsibility for what is going on, on the field ?

[nutbean 8,838]

Nut Bean a coach is also paid extremely well to perform and to get the best out of the players

Northey and Daniher both got our team into Grand finals.

Sack Neeld and move on

You cant pull up your socks if you havent got socks to pull up.

As i said before - easier to sack a coach than sack 20 plus footballers

Its a two way street - it is up to the coach to get the best out of the players but more important for players to get the most out of themselves.

On Saturday I saw players have a crack for 40 minutes..are you suggesting for the balance of the game where it went horribly pearshaped that the reason is because the coaches didnt have a crack ?

[DEMON FROM WITHIN 46]

Neels is unmotivating, boring and the players hate his guts

[nutbean 8,838]

Neels is unmotivating, boring and the players hate his guts

Not sure if that is true (players hating his guts) but it says more about the players than it does about the coach...tail wagging the dog.

Edited April 15, 2013 by nutbean

[DEMON FROM WITHIN 46]

Nutbean your right about one thing it is easier to sack a coach than a team never most likely been done in 150 years of footy.

Neeld goes pure and simple and with a new coach hope rises at the moment we are trapped in a losing cycle and after suffering our largest ever loss at the MCG in 150 years we have a [censored] coach

[nutbean 8,838]

Nutbean your right about one thing it is easier to sack a coach than a team never most likely been done in 150 years of footy.

Neeld goes pure and simple and with a new coach hope rises at the moment we are trapped in a losing cycle and after suffering our largest ever loss at the MCG in 150 years we have a [censored] coach

I'll meet you half way - everything about our footballers ( save a handful) and football department is [censored] - the score is on the board - the footballers are horrible and play without conviction so they must take responsibility for that and that the coaches cant instill anything into those horrible footballers is an indictment on them. And we do agree on one thing - coaches get sacked not the team.

[Redleg 40,951]

Absolute rubbish.

All of us on this forum merely speculate and hand wring.

You accuse me of reading too much of the Hun, but I reckon you listen to SEN too much.

Clark - recruited by Neeld

Dawes - recruited by Neeld

M Jones - recruited by Neeld

Terlich - recruited by Neeld

Kent - recruited by Neeld (yet to play, but looks likely)

N Jones - playing the best footy of his career, under Neeld.

The penny may have dropped with Sylvia....responding.

Evans played well on Saturday and will get better...under Neeld.

J Viney - playing with the spirit and guts ALL our players should be displaying...under Neeld.

Our captains are bloody, bold and resolute!!!

Byrnes, Pedersen and Gillies may yet work out.

He, too, is a developing coach in the AFL - he needs time.

We do agree on one thing - Daniher needed to rebuilt after 2000.

Agree with everything except your 3rd last line.

Hogan and Barry to come also taken under Neeld's watch.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Redleg

[DEMON FROM WITHIN 46]

Nutbean finally you are making some sense

Now please demonstrate some points of improvement we have made under Neelds coaching regime.

Fitness - not able to be seen

Game Plan - What game plan

Defense - What defense (160 point loss coupled with 84 margin in a half of footy

Hope - Neeld doesn't have the answers

[rpfc 28,530]

Agree with everything except your 3rd last line.

Well, if they don't work out, they cost nothing, ND63 and Gysberts, and nothing.

[Redleg 40,951]

Well, if they don't work out, they cost nothing, ND63 and Gysberts, and nothing.

Agree with that as well, except I think they are no good and we would have been better keeping the picks and getting Jack Hannath and a couple of others.

[DEMON FROM WITHIN 46]

Fellow Demoms who support keeping Neeld as coach please detail improvements that have been made to our on field performances since he began

[nutbean 8,838]

Nutbean finally you are making some sense

Now please demonstrate some points of improvement we have made under Neelds coaching regime.

Fitness - not able to be seen

Game Plan - What game plan

Defense - What defense (160 point loss coupled with 84 margin in a half of footy

Hope - Neeld doesn't have the answers

Fitness - you want to blame neeld for that ??? I think there is consensus everywhere that we were so far behind every other club when he arrived and it would take a couple of seasons at least to build up fitness to anywhere near other clubs so that is a criticism that is most unfair.

As to the other two points - it is again commonly held belief that many of the players we do have are not up to it - so is it the players who are not executing or the coach who is not giving them the right instructions - either way - it is damning on both. I just wont sit back and let the players off without accepting responsibility. Nathan Jones certainly doesnt give a rats who is or isnt the coach - he just has pride in what he does.

[bing181 9,246]

bing, fer christ's sake.

Do you really stand by a justification that we should be behind GWS and GC in our development? Please don't spit in my coffee and call it sweetener.

I don't believe I said that we should be behind GWS and GC in our development, simply that they've had a free run at the best players going for the last few years, and sooner or later, we're (all) going to start seeing the results of that.