The article is all about putting a line through the past at Melbourne. Acknowledging it's failure as a club, the relentless backstabbing and mad politics, the acceptance of mediocrity as a standard, and the sanctimonious sniping at anyone who pointed out these things.

It says Rivers, but it actually means everyone. It's says Geelong, but it is actually aboutt he whole concept of a professional and competent culture.

Believe it or not, the article has a subtext that Garry Lyon feels like things are gonna be ok now at Melbourne.

Amazing so many can't see that...

Look I wouldn't have a problem with it at all if he said:

"There must have been times in the past couple of years that Jared Rivers didn't feel like getting out of bed to go to training. Match day may have been a struggle as well. His club was embroiled in all sorts of off-field drama. A senior coach was sacked, internal fighting reigned supreme and factions were formed. If points were awarded for backstabbing and rumour-spreading, the Demons would have finished in the top four for the past five years. A situation me, my mates and my appointments created."

Where's your evidence for this slur on Lyon?

Lyon lost me during the tanking debacle. He's got a lot of power and authority in the media; could have come out and defended us at any time. Didn't .

Then we were all waiting for him to tear strips of Caro on Footy Confidential. He failed miserably. She ran rings around him. He was simply unprepared. Needed to refute her hysterical arguments in a logical manner, one, two, three. Didn't. Hopeless.

What depressed me was that some of us seemed to think he'd done a great job because they had a shouting match. But if you take a closer look, what he was really getting stroppy about was that she criticized his personal integrity. That was it for me. He wasn't being passionate about the club that made him, he was being passionate about himself.

Now he writes this fluff-piece about Rivers (which is a subtle criticism of Melbourne, although nowhere near as harsh as it could have been - I'm not saying he dislikes us, I'm saying he's just another self-centred media [censored] - I suppose I can handle him being a [censored], but I wish he was one like Eddy or Brayshaw, who never lose their passion for their clubs.)

'What depressed me was that some of us seemed to think he'd done a great job because they had a shouting match. But if you take a closer look, what he was really getting stroppy about was that she criticized his personal integrity. That was it for me. He wasn't being passionate about the club that made him, he was being passionate about himself.'

Agree entirely.

You, FanBob and a couple if others on here are more likely to snipe than I am.

Some of the recent threads on here have born that out; now why don't you crawl back up FanBobs ...e.

For someone that has an interest in Psychology, you sure lose your cool fairly quickly, have a little nap Tim, you'll feel better for it.

"Look no further than this board..."

Back it up. You are happy to imply that Fan/bob is a leak. WJ is happy letting that little smear run (you want to speak to that Jack...any back up your little claim of "more coming soon"?).

How's about you back that up, champ? Prove Fan is the leak. You won't though, will you. Gutless, gutless, gutless. Put up, RobbieF. Stand by your convictions...they must be based on more than i/net rumour...surely.

Right now, you are the Kevin Rudd of this site. Whispering but without the balls to back it up. "Some recent threads"...Really? Like when I started a thread about teamwork and Jack made a smart-alec, content-free contribution? Like that...but you'd like to call me on sniping? Get a script-writer. You're not good at this whole logic + evidence thing.

And while we are at it, why don't we get a few things straight about psychology. Being a psychologist doesn't mean that I care about everyone, or that I'm psychic, or that I have infinite patience for garbage. It doesn't mean that I don't get angry when snipers like you ping away at people on the basis of nothing more than your fevered imagination.

I have no patience for cowards, for liars, for hypocrites, for users. I have no time for the thoughtless, the mean, the ignorant or the willfully deceived. I have no patience for conservatives who rail for the preservation of values such as integrity & personal responsibility and then abandon such values when it suits. I have no patience for you, Robbie.

Where's your evidence for this slur on Lyon?

Were you awake over the last five years?

'What depressed me was that some of us seemed to think he'd done a great job because they had a shouting match. But if you take a closer look, what he was really getting stroppy about was that she criticized his personal integrity. That was it for me. He wasn't being passionate about the club that made him, he was being passionate about himself.'

Agree entirely.

Me three,

Would the footy world still revolve without these overpaid hacks to discuss it?

Bring back the Coodabeens FFS.

Completely over the commentary teams, experts and bottom feeders before the season has started.

Going to watch the Tele for interstate games with the sound down

None of their opinions matter, they are merely "market noise".

So the message is spot on but the messenger is on the nose?

Well, if a prostitute's parrot says the sky is blue it doesn't become less blue because a working girl's bird said so.

You've got the wrong metaphor - Lyon is the working girl's pimp questioning her morals.

"Look no further than this board..."

Back it up. You are happy to imply that Fan/bob is a leak. WJ is happy letting that little smear run (you want to speak to that Jack...any back up your little claim of "more coming soon"?).

How's about you back that up, champ? Prove Fan is the leak. You won't though, will you. Gutless, gutless, gutless. Put up, RobbieF. Stand by your convictions...they must be based on more than i/net rumour...surely.

Right now, you are the Kevin Rudd of this site. Whispering but without the balls to back it up. "Some recent threads"...Really? Like when I started a thread about teamwork and Jack made a smart-alec, content-free contribution? Like that...but you'd like to call me on sniping? Get a script-writer. You're not good at this whole logic + evidence thing.

And while we are at it, why don't we get a few things straight about psychology. Being a psychologist doesn't mean that I care about everyone, or that I'm psychic, or that I have infinite patience for garbage. It doesn't mean that I don't get angry when snipers like you ping away at people on the basis of nothing more than your fevered imagination.

I have no patience for cowards, for liars, for hypocrites, for users. I have no time for the thoughtless, the mean, the ignorant or the willfully deceived. I have no patience for conservatives who rail for the preservation of values such as integrity & personal responsibility and then abandon such values when it suits. I have no patience for you, Robbie.

Dont hold back, Tim.

I would like you to express yourself more openly.

I too put up with Robbies boring rants on the virtues of tunnel thinking until there was one 1950s aphorism too many.

Where's your evidence for this slur on Lyon?

Where's my evidence?

The factions that destabilised the club were Schwab and Connolly (Lyon's great mates) versus Bailey, Prendergast and Flack (Lyon hired Bailey). Lyon was instrumental in Bailey's sacking, hired his replacement and was at the club as Football Director leading up to the time when Prendergast and Flack "left". Subsequently those disgruntled forces poured petrol on the tanking investigation. All this was widely reported in the media.

Lyon is up to his elbows in the conflict at MFC and then has the gall to write that article. He should shut up.

The paranoid delusion on this forum that somehow Fan, TimD or any other poster here is actually a player in the destabilisation is ludicrous and defamatory. They're just fans who've posted their take on a pissant forum.

Lyon is a combatant who has slurred MFC in the national media. If Wilson wrote that article there would be blood frothing at the mouths of posters here. That Lyon wrote it is 100x worse.

"Look no further than this board..."

Back it up. You are happy to imply that Fan/bob is a leak. WJ is happy letting that little smear run (you want to speak to that Jack...any back up your little claim of "more coming soon"?).

How's about you back that up, champ? Prove Fan is the leak. You won't though, will you. Gutless, gutless, gutless. Put up, RobbieF. Stand by your convictions...they must be based on more than i/net rumour...surely.

Right now, you are the Kevin Rudd of this site. Whispering but without the balls to back it up. "Some recent threads"...Really? Like when I started a thread about teamwork and Jack made a smart-alec, content-free contribution? Like that...but you'd like to call me on sniping? Get a script-writer. You're not good at this whole logic + evidence thing.

And while we are at it, why don't we get a few things straight about psychology. Being a psychologist doesn't mean that I care about everyone, or that I'm psychic, or that I have infinite patience for garbage. It doesn't mean that I don't get angry when snipers like you ping away at people on the basis of nothing more than your fevered imagination.

I have no patience for cowards, for liars, for hypocrites, for users. I have no time for the thoughtless, the mean, the ignorant or the willfully deceived. I have no patience for conservatives who rail for the preservation of values such as integrity & personal responsibility and then abandon such values when it suits. I have no patience for you, Robbie.

I have raised the question with your buddy fanbob on several occasions so I hardy think it's whispers; at this stage he hasn't exactly refuted it.

I love the way he disappeared from the site as soon as the tanking issue was over and he had no more mud to sling, he now leaves his underlings like you to do is bidding and defend him; you are nothing but a suck, one of his Cardinals perhaps?

As for anonymity he knows who I am so if he wanted to discuss it with me he knows he can, but of course he won't. He'd rather leave that to you; I'm still trying to find out what vested interested you have in him or he in you.

I guess it's easier for him to appear to be above this whilst you do his dirty work and keep him looking pristine.

The sad part of all this is you accuse me slandering fanbob and then go on and do exactly the same thing to me; do you have any facts to back up your last paragraph, do you?

I have no connection to Whispering Jack and wouldn't know him if he walked in to the room so if you are looking for some conspiracy put your tinfoil hat on and look elsewhere.

You've lost your cool Psycobabble man, not a good look. Good to see you've got a supporter in Biffin, I'm please he's on your side not mine.

Where's my evidence?

The factions that destabilised the club were Schwab and Connolly (Lyon's great mates) versus Bailey, Prendergast and Flack (Lyon hired Bailey). Lyon was instrumental in Bailey's sacking, hired his replacement and was at the club as Football Director leading up to the time when Prendergast and Flack "left". Subsequently those disgruntled forces poured petrol on the tanking investigation. All this was widely reported in the media.

Lyon is up to his elbows in the conflict at MFC and then has the gall to write that article. He should shut up.

The paranoid delusion on this forum that somehow Fan, TimD or any other poster here is actually a player in the destabilisation is ludicrous and defamatory. They're just fans who've posted their take on a pissant forum.

Lyon is a combatant who has slurred MFC in the national media. If Wilson wrote that article there would be blood frothing at the mouths of posters here. That Lyon wrote it is 100x worse.

And he did write a couple of articles under the cloak of journalistic impartiality that were not very kind to Bailey when things were starting to appear NQR. One thing is clear. We know which side the players were on almost to a man on this debacle.

And he did write a couple of articles under the cloak of journalistic impartiality that were not very kind to Bailey when things were starting to appear NQR. One thing is clear. We know which side the players were on almost to a man on this debacle.

Exactly and 186 proved that, if they had any consideration for Bailey that would never have happened.

Oh! hang on that's not what you meant is it?

Exactly and 186 proved that, if they had any consideration for Bailey that would never have happened.

Oh! hang on that's not what you meant is it?

Nothing to do with consideration for Bailey. More like what and who were the forces within the club that distracted them so.

"Look no further than this board..."

Back it up. You are happy to imply that Fan/bob is a leak. WJ is happy letting that little smear run (you want to speak to that Jack...any back up your little claim of "more coming soon"?).

Dylan wrote a song about this sort of post and called it Mixed Up Confusion.

Just for the record, could you provide proof or a link for your scurrilous allegation (other than ask where people have been for the last five years) that I'm happy to let a smear by implication run?

Sorry for mass-quoting, but these 5 posts miss the point.It's not whether or not what he's written is accurate, it's the fact that Lyon is a massive contributing factor to these problems. He was one of those responsible for implementing Bailey, is part of the crew that turfs him, then gets another crack when it comes to appointing the next coach - followed by articles like this. Gaz has a dream role: he gets to play the hero every time the club "needs" him, then he gets to [censored] on the solution when it doesn't work, as if it had nothing to do with him. I reckon it stinks.

I won't read the thread beyond this post, it sums it up perfectly.

He needs/needed to be all in or all out. His role doesn't leave him accountable for what are pretty majour decisions.

"Look no further than this board..."

Back it up. You are happy to imply that Fan/bob is a leak. WJ is happy letting that little smear run (you want to speak to that Jack...any back up your little claim of "more coming soon"?).

How's about you back that up, champ? Prove Fan is the leak. You won't though, will you. Gutless, gutless, gutless. Put up, RobbieF. Stand by your convictions...they must be based on more than i/net rumour...surely.

Right now, you are the Kevin Rudd of this site. Whispering but without the balls to back it up. "Some recent threads"...Really? Like when I started a thread about teamwork and Jack made a smart-alec, content-free contribution? Like that...but you'd like to call me on sniping? Get a script-writer. You're not good at this whole logic + evidence thing.

And while we are at it, why don't we get a few things straight about psychology. Being a psychologist doesn't mean that I care about everyone, or that I'm psychic, or that I have infinite patience for garbage. It doesn't mean that I don't get angry when snipers like you ping away at people on the basis of nothing more than your fevered imagination.

I have no patience for cowards, for liars, for hypocrites, for users. I have no time for the thoughtless, the mean, the ignorant or the willfully deceived. I have no patience for conservatives who rail for the preservation of values such as integrity & personal responsibility and then abandon such values when it suits. I have no patience for you, Robbie.

Hellloooooooo Mr. Nutball.............

I won't read the thread beyond this post, it sums it up perfectly.

He needs/needed to be all in or all out. His role doesn't leave him accountable for what are pretty majour decisions.

Consultants - they love you and leave you.

Dont hold back, Tim.

I would like you to express yourself more openly.

I too put up with Robbies boring rants on the virtues of tunnel thinking until there was one 1950s aphorism too many.

That's from a poster who posts are predominantly modelled on 90's ABC humourless comedy.

Why don't you and your buddy put me on ignore and spare everyone the angst of your mindless ranting. Better still stick to posting about football, which you have some minuscule clue about and desist from posting about anything else, which you clearly have no clue about and I mean anything else.

My diagnosis: too long an off season which followed a season from hell. A tanking investigation that left demon fans a little fragile.

My cure: bring on the footy. We win. We lose. We dissect the games. With the federal elections coming up we have enough politics

That's from a poster who posts are predominantly modelled on 90's ABC humourless comedy.

Why don't you and your buddy put me on ignore and spare everyone the angst of your mindless ranting. Better still stick to posting about football, which you have some minuscule clue about and desist from posting about anything else, which you clearly have no clue about and I mean anything else.

Generally I like to discuss comedy in the comedy thread, and cricket in the cricket thread.

Footy goes well in footy threads and drugs likewise in threads on drugs.

Scumbag politicians I try not to post about,hoping you might do the same.

Consultants - they love you and leave you.

Usually they don't urinate on you in the media after they've steered your ship though.

Generally I like to discuss comedy in the comedy thread, and cricket in the cricket thread.

Footy goes well in footy threads and drugs likewise in threads on drugs.

Scumbag politicians I try not to post about,hoping you might do the same.

If I and others on here have to put up with your constant hijacking of threads with your idiotic attempt at humour you can put up with my rare venture in to the World of Politics. I have very rarely discussed Politics here and it's been 4 years since I posted on Demonology so I think you may have me confused with someone else.

Whether the content of Lyons piece is right or not, it isn't the thing that frustrates me with Garry. Football Club culture isn't just the 44 people in the squad, it's all of us as supporters and all of our ex-players. Richmond have been rubbish for so long but do their ex- players come out with comments like Garry's... Absolutely not.

When Collingwod were rubbish Eddie would never bad mouth his club..

Garry writes one piece each year just to make everyone feel like he isn't a one eyed supporter in the media but he doesn't get it. Billy Brownless is loved by most because they know how one eyed he is.. So you can choose to ignore it. If Geelong were 0-16 you wouldn't hear a bad word.

That's why Geelongs culture is so good... Everyone is on board! They're highest profile supporters are 100% Geelong.

Garry is the one guy who can send positive Melbourne message throughout the media when everyone else wants to write sh!t... Yet he's sold out because he cares about himself in the media not Melbourne as his first port of call.

If I and others on here have to put up with your constant hijacking of threads with your idiotic attempt at humour you can put up with my rare venture in to the World of Politics. I have very rarely discussed Politics here and it's been 4 years since I posted on Demonology so I think you may have me confused with someone else.

It's a bit rough criticising Biffen's idiotic humour for being idiotic humour. I suppose you're into something more subtle and understated - like Benny Hill and pie throwing.